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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=tVPfVIEuyoY

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It says on my time device that it's 7 o'clock. Let's call the meeting. I call the meeting to order. And we'll start by the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the United States of America and to the republic for it

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stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Uh, we I got one item that we just got hashed out here for the approval of the

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agenda. So the agenda as far as I know is going to be as it is except at the last minute we got a letter from uh one of the petitioners asking to table

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docket five and docket six which I'm going to combine so that it'll be at the same order but just so you have a heads up. Is there any other discussion of the agenda? >> I'm sorry. I I'm confused. I don't see f

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You mean docket one, two, three? >> They're on the back. >> Four, five, >> five and five and six. This one. Yes. >> Okay. So, those two are going to be >> he asked to take them till August meeting.

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>> Oh, okay. All right. Okay. But it is docket 0716. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. >> All right. All right. We need a motion for that. >> Yeah. I would move to table docket uh PC7162605 and PC7162606.

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>> Second. >> All right. We have a motion to table docket 05 and 06 by Jordan and Louis second it. Is anybody any further discussion? Steve.

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Um, we just put on the record that the petitioner requested to 60-day extension. Uh, so we don't um, otherwise we would have to deal with it at the next meeting, but this is being done at the at their request. >> Okay. >> Like you said, >> thank you. All right. Uh, Jordan made

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the motion. Louis seconded it. All there's no other discussion. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Nay. The motion is unanimously passed. Now I suppose we need a motion

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to approve the rest of the agenda. >> Second. >> Uh Jordan moved. Louis second it. Is there any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Nay. The motion to approve the

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agenda is passed. All right. Next one is the approval of the minutes from June 18th. Do anybody have any questions or comments? >> I'll move to approve. They appeared accurate to me.

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>> Is there a second? John seconds that Marsha made the motion. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of approval of the minutes of June 18th say I. I. >> Oppos? Nay.

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Motion is passed. Okay, the next item is consider altering planning commission start time. Um, do we have to go through Ross, you bring us up to speed? >> At the last meeting, Commissioner Ward

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had brought up the subject of possibly um moving planning commission up to 6:00 and just wanted to bring it to this meeting for the commission to discuss and decide what what how you would like to proceed. So, um, okay.

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>> Would you prefer to take the lead? >> Uh, yeah. Well, I guess just a question. I know I think there was a doodle poll and, uh, I didn't see the results. Maybe Dicey, do you have the results when you pulled us? What what the and also I want to know what how staff feels.

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>> Yeah, I did send out an email to staff and then also to the planning commission members. Um, there was no opposition. Um, some neutral, some in support, but pretty mixed. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Is there anyone on the planning

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commission that has objections to this? >> The only problem I can see personally is if combine and planting season um we could get rained out that day. We don't know it. I'm just one member. We got to go with the majority and whether it's six or seven. I'm probably not

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going to stop combining either way. I probably wouldn't be for that time. I >> I'm okay with it. >> You agree too, Jordan? Yeah, I'm on board for six o'clock. >> Okay. Um All right. Then we need a motion to approve this changing of the

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meeting time. >> So moved. >> John moves. >> I'll second it. >> Everett seconds it. Uh, we have a motion made and seconded to alter the planning commission starting time from 7 to 6

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p.m. Is there any discussion or further discussion? >> I I would just hope that yeah, it helps staff, you know, we're not making them come back in, you know, at 7 o'clock either. And and better use of everybody's time, I would hope.

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>> Especially in the winter time. >> Especially the winter time when the weather can be. Yeah. All right. Uh, >> of course they did away with daylight savings time. So, is Minnesota going to switch back and forth or are we going to have more sunlight at the end of the day? >> I don't know.

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>> Um, no further discussion. Let's vote on changing the planning commission start time from 7 to 6. All those in favor say I. I. I. >> Opposed? Nay.

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The motion is passed. Uh Jordan, you're next. >> Um we had one petition today that was um our second docket item here. It was a uh prime soils variance. We did pass it. We

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added uh an extra condition that would limit any building activity to the eastern half of the parcel. So I can go over it again when we get to that if you would like. >> Okay. Um

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county board Marsha. >> Yeah. Uh we approve the um particular uh see it was um the name. Oh Henderson Henderson Family Trust the the Dirt Phil and Nodine that was approved by the county board.

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>> Anything else? >> No. >> All right. All right. the comp plan. I don't think we've had any activity, have we Lou? >> Um, nothing really to to report right now. Um, we will be having a update to the website uh next week. Um, and then

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we uh will probably in August there should be some things come going public for review and with the steering committee and then with the general public. So, plugging along. Uh, do you have any way of knowing if we're getting

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ho how much the response is from the general public to this whole thing or >> Well, our u our our engagement was primarily last summer and fall. Um, and then we've been working with the um um

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the the steering committee over the winter. Um we do have an engagement activity online that's been open um for the past six months. Um and we've had good um good uh response to that and to our um our our um engagement activities

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that we had previously. So >> thank you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh then I guess we go to item seven petitions docket PC07-16-261 um consider the petition of Nilus

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Schaefer petitioner representative Chariots for hope and Aaron and Erica Benson property owners who seek a conditional interim term use permit regarding the following.

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>> Go ahead, Lou. >> Yep, I'll take it from there. Um to allow a public gathering on private land for a one-day event consisting of an attendance of up to uh to not exceed 499 people uh pursuant to uh uh Wo County

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Zoning Ordinance Chapter 10.4.617. Um as stated, this is for a uh a public event. I'll get into some of the details of the of the event itself in a minute, but we'll start out out just with the location. It's going to be located in an existing quarry um a limestone quarry in

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Dresbach Township. It's uh right off of the intersection of Oakill Drive and County Road One. You can see there on the map. Um, Oakill D drive is a minimum maintenance township road. Um,

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that goes from uh the lower part portion of Dresback Township, I guess, all the way to the top of the bluff. Um, and this quarry is off of the kind of the top of the bluff. Um, towards the top of of that that hill road. Um, it is a

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agricultural zoning district. Uh, it's in section 19 of Dresbeck Township. Uh the event is called Corey Jump for a Cause and involves a

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launching or driving um old vehicles off of the the rock face of the quarry wall um and um using that as the u I guess the the instrument for a uh fundraising

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event. Um, Chariots for Hope Wisconsin is the uh the nonprofit that is uh is um conducting the event and Aaron and Erica Benson are the property owners of the the Corey, the land that the Corey sits

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in. Um a little bit more information on the event itself. Uh, Corey Jump for a Cause is a um charitable fundraising event featuring professionally coordinated launches of decommissioned vehicles from a designated quarry cliff into a

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controlled impact area. This is primarily from their website and information that the group has out um uh that they put out themselves. Uh, Chariots for Hope is a faith-based nonprofit organization that supports low-income families and individuals to

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maintain self-sufficiency through reliable transportation and ride programs. Um, I think that the the vehicles they they they take in vehicles and provide those um to uh qualifying individuals and families um to help with

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u um with transportation needs in the Lacrosse area. Um, and I believe that they have vehicles that they maybe don't work out or they can't use that they then need to scrap and they're using some of those vehicles for for this uh

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for this event. Um, proceeds from registrations uh for this event support Chariots for Hope Wisconsin to provide the the safe, reliable vehicles to neighbors working towards steady jobs, medical care, and everyday essentials. again from their

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website. Um we had a number of site plans that were submitted by the petitioners. Uh and I'll go through a couple of those to start and then we'll have some uh some that staff created. Um this is showing

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Oakill Road or it's Oakill Drive and the Benson Quarry. um and uh indicating locations for vendors, um sanitary facilities, uh water stations, and emergency

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services. Um within the the quarry, uh this is an updated site plan showing parking. They've we went back and forth with them on um on parking uh accommodations. Uh originally, they were

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looking at a shovel shuttle service. Uh then uh considering parking on County Road One. Um there were concerns with that. We heard back from uh the highway department um and others um regarding that and so the plans changed. Again,

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this is the uh most recent uh iteration of that showing all of the parking being accommodated on site within the quarry itself. um in order to avoid um traffic and um uh parking issues, safety issues on the

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county road uh system. Um so parking would be accommodated on site. Um um looks like they will be encouraging uh folks to carpool since they're only

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providing one parking spot per three attendees that they are um at the maximum what they're projecting that they will uh um have for attendance. Um expected they're expecting 450 to 150

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spaces needed. So, it's a large large depending on how many people show up, but um 200 square feet per space. And based on that, they mapped out um the the necessary parking within the um within the quarry. Um

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and then also at the end of the of the area, there's a turnaround a 75 foot unobstructed uh turn radius at the end of the the parking area, which is also at the end of the quarry itself. Um, this is another site plan that they

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submitted showing the uh uh the restricted area in yellow uh is an area where they're not going to allow any attendees, any any members of the public to to um to access that coincides with the um the launch and um um I guess

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impact zone as well as the area around the top of the quarry wall. So, makes sense to keep people from the top. Um, keep keep them at the base of the of the of the quarry. Um, and they'll have guard rails and cement barriers to help with that. And I assume also volunteers

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and um um people staffing it to help keep people away from those areas. Um the yellow is um an area outside of the So there'll be the impact zone, then there'll be barriers and then there'll be an area um in between where the

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public will be and those barriers that'll be monitored by by volunteers. Um this is a a kind of oblique aerial view of the quarry to give you an idea of what it looks like. You can clearly see the the quarry wall there and the

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access drive from Oakhill Drive. Um again, um um Oakill Drive is a minimum maintenance road, so it is closed in winter. Uh it's gravel uh Hill Road and then County Road One is located just beyond um the screen here off to the

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right um to the north and uh west of the of the quarry. Um this is the same view just showing some of the parking and facilities uh that they had indicated on the on the um on their site plans. The orange line

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would be that um that area where they're keeping people or the public away from or out of. The green area is the staging area and landing area for the vehicles. Uh yellow is parking which roughly coincides with their um their parking

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plan although the parking plan would be um extended further into the quarry to the to the left on of your screen there. So there'll be more parking in the turnaround area would be off to the left. Um again the orange line is off

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limits. Um the blue area by the beginning was indicated for kind of a welcoming area or tent and ticketing area. Um the red square is vendors and the blue and red is a first aid area

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um that they had indicated on their site plan. Um so this is uh being held as the first annual um event uh for this. So they do plan on doing it in the future if it's successful. Um the event will be held on Sunday uh

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August 23rd from 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 pm. Uh applicants submitted info um uh and within your packets includes provisions for public safety, launch procedures, emergency services, traffic management and parking, sanitation, drinking water,

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waste management, etc. Uh we staff also um um responded and summarized that within the staff report. Um the recommendation is to hear this as an interim use permit. So again, this is a permit that would expire after the event

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since it has a a very um um limited scope time frame and scope. Um it'll be for an interim use permit for that um that one particular event. if they were to do it in subsequent years, they would have to come back and apply again for

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that event um in the future. Um like we mentioned before, we have u solicited comments from the highway department and um um emergency management. Um we did hear some comments

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back, mainly concerns about um the parking situation on County Road One previously previous to them changing that plan. Um we haven't heard anything as a followup um after they changed their their their parking plan. So um just

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wanted to clarify that. Um and then we do have some photos here showing um what the site looks like um currently. This is looking at the rock wall inside the quarry um of the the the launch and landing

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area, the main main quarry wall there. Um this is looking to the um further into the quarry from that area u in the area that was indicated for parking and the um the the turnaround um at the end

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would be down this this path here. You can see the the current property owners use it as a recreational site. So they have some personal items um u servicing that some firewood and um and and things like that. um that are in

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the in the query itself. Um Dresbach Township uh signed off on the township acknowledgement form and indicated no comments related to the request. Um as always based your decision off the

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criteria. Um the draft findings do support granting the IUP. Um and uh there are four conditions uh attached for consideration. Um

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I would caveat that with um um Steve is going to give a a brief presentation as well and he might uh have some additional considerations for you to uh to look at. So, I guess before the you get into questions, I just ask you to

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hold off and hear from Steve and then um we can uh we can proceed from there. That sounds good. Um, so I I I wanted I don't usually give a presentation at these things, but this particular uh uh application is very

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unusual and you're looking at issues that are not typical that you're not don't typically uh look at and uh you and the county board we get into an area where you have the discretion here to make impactful decisions uh uh just

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because of the nature of this event. Sounds like a great event. Sounds like fun. Sounds like a good cause. Uh but it but it does implicate a lot of uh regulatory issues that you should think about. And my my intent here is not to not to tell you what you should and

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shouldn't do, but I want to give you an idea of the scope of uh of uh the issues that you should consider. Um we'll see if we go there. Okay. So, as Lou said, it's a single day fundraiser uh that takes

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place five weeks from now. Uh the plan is to drop 10 decommissioned vehicles off a legend of quarry. The quarry will contain up to 499 attendees, 150 parked cars, food vendors, music, EMS, ambulance, and event security.

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And that uh one key one key point is that 499 is one person below triggering uh the the application of the mass assembly ordinance which would bring in a whole bunch of review uh from safety

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standpoints and things like that. Um this uh basically so you can't call up the department of driving cars off a cliff regulation to find out everything that you need to need to to a all the regulations you need to meet. I went

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through and tried to find all everything I could think of and find that would apply to an event like this just to give you an idea of the layered regulatory authority, where our authority is, where the state has authority, things like that. So, this is kind of this isn't everything, but this is kind of a a

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smattering. Um, the interim use permit, which you're looking at, the large assembly's license, erosion, land disturbance, environmental review, that's all county stuff that's firmly in in our purview. Um, and uh, the state has uh, regulations related to the

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pollution and control act, the attorney general registering charities, uh, liquor, but I understand they're not having liquor, but uh, that would have to be licensed as well. They have a raffle or something like that. There's a gambling control board. Uh, and then there's issues with state fire marshall,

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department of revenue, sales tax, uh, safety and township road access. So there's a lot of different things going on here and a lot of it is not stuff that you decide but it's also um you have a discretionary role here to to to

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determine if that stuff will be monitored or not. Uh and so the the they the they've planned the event for 499 people just went below 500.

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One one uh um one thing to keep in mind is that ordinance 33 applies to actual attendance of 500 or reasonably anticipated attendance of 500 which

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means that the board you uh that's a factual finding you could make. So, if someone came in here and they were they they were doing an event that was clearly going to have 100,000 people at it and they told us it was 499 people, we would say, "No, you're going to need a mass assembly permit." Uh, and that's

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why that's written that way because you you or the board can look at the facts and make a a determination, a factual conclusion, just like a finding a fact about uh whether it's going to be more than 500 people or not. And if the board says there's going to be more than 500

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people, then the other uh regulatory uh uh issues and oversight kicks in. And the reason this is important because the way this is this event is structured and timed uh in combination with county resources kind of creates a structural oversight

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problem because county inspections are complaint driven. We don't have inspectors that just go out there and and check this routinely. So, we have a a one-day event. Uh, and if there's a complaint, if something's not right, if it's unsafe, if it's polluting the

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environment, uh, it it will effectively be no oversight. It won't be enforced because we can't respond uh uh quickly enough to do that. Uh, someone would complain on Monday and then the event is already over. Maybe there's some afterevent stuff that could be dealt

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with, but basically the county effectively has no way to enforce the event at the time if it's granted as a conditional unit a conditional interim use permit with the typical uh um

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conditions that we normally have. So this is what this is what I think you should think about generally four things. Uh you you do look at that the typical findings of fact those seven items I think it is that you always look at but you also have to think about that

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attendance cap. Uh do you accept that 499 is is it and you're going to have that with conditions? uh do you just accept $4.99 and don't add any new conditions or do you recommend that the board find well this is going to be more than 500 people and so uh the other

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ordinance is going to apply. Uh you should also consider and we'll talk about this further but whether any gaps in oversight should be closed. Uh engineering certification uh parking requirements environmental uh reporting things like that. Um we'll go through

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those a little bit but uh you have you have the or the board has the authority through the use of conditions to make sure that the applicant has the agencies certify that these things have been done. Uh and then finally it would be uh

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we have a limited uh staff in the planning environmental services and whatever compliance we require is going to have to require minimal effort by the staff to verify. So they can't be calling different agencies and going

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back and forth to the site and that sort of thing. Uh so I want to talk a little bit about what that might look like. Now, here's here's what happens if ordinance 30 33 applies. Uh there's three major components. It has a hard timeline which uh uh it basically has to

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start 90 days before the event and uh the license would be issued or denied. Uh uh yeah. Okay. So basically the the long short of that is that that deadline can't be met right now because it's five

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weeks away. They can't uh apply 90 days ago. um that could be waved by the board. Uh but the the consideration there is that that 90-day point what would happen is there would be a a a

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gathering of the sheriff, the planning environmental services, the highways department, people from every every area that uh has expertise in in in this type of thing would meet and discuss and hear about the plan and the and the u uh be

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able to give their input as to whether they had concerns or not or how they could be dealt with. Uh it also has requires 13 mandatory plans uh that they would have to have a separate detail plan for water, toilets, waste, medical security, fire, a whole slew of a slew

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of things. They in the materials they provided, they've provided bullet points for those uh items. Uh they're not required to provide those under just a conditional interim use permit. So what they submitted is fine as it is. Uh but

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if uh if if there were uh under ordinance 33 or if there were additional conditions, they would have to provide much more detail about those things. Uh there would also be a pre-invent inspection. Uh and the right side there

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is basically all the things that would be different under ordinance 33. Uh the presubmitt meeting that I just discussed. uh uh certified copies of of having met all permits, the detailed 13 plans, the fire day notice, the uh uh

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director review from all the departments here, the 10-day pre-invent inspection, all uh all things that are not required by a conditional interim use permit. Uh and this is just all the plans uh that uh and and the the uh source of

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requirement under ordinance that that would uh come at a mass gathering event if um if this event had one more person. So basically uh the difference between 49 and 499 and 500 is there's a

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pre-event inspection. There's an attendant ticket caps built into the license. Uh there's inspection. There's revocation and penalties for non-compliance. And the cost of doing all that is shifted to the applicant. So they have

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to pay for all the permits and all the inspections and any staff time and things like that uh that would come with that. Uh the outof agency approvals do not change the charitable solicitation registration which um their Wisconsin well their Nevada there their Wisconsin

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chapter of a Nevada corporation of a Nevada nonprofit and Minnesota has a has a a requirement that you register in the state if you uh are are soliciting $25,000 or more in contributions.

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Um, and again, that's one thing we would probably want to see because you'd want to protect the citizens to make sure people are are uh uh uh uh giving their money to a an organization that's properly registered. Um,

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and then there would be the uh uh pollution control the the the pollution control association vehicle material appliance compliance still applies. there's things they have to do to dispose of the cars and prepare the cars before they go. Liquor, food, gambling,

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sales tax, all that would still apply. Um, and then the uh uh the ordinance basically all those items, it just requires certified copies with the application that show that they've all been obtained. Um,

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so this this is just kind of a checklist that I found that is similar to what we're looking at here. Uh, these are the type of things that would that would uh you'd want to consider in a uh something like this. uh liability insurance to

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make sure uh they have insurance if anyone gets injured and that they indemnify the county against any lawsuits. Uh could be could require depending on the nature of the event a cash escrow compliance for restoration uh which uh uh may not be as much of an

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issue because it's on private property but it would be if there's uh you know erosion or pollution or something like that. uh engineer launch safety certification. Um it's a very it's a very unusual thing. So if the the you know when you

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launch a car off the cliff, what is the setback distance need to be from that to the spectators? Uh you know what happens when the car hits the ground? Does it bounce? Does it roll? Does it stop? All those are things that probably we know nothing about. Uh so somebody who who uh

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uh uh can evaluate the safety of what's going on uh would would probably take a look at that as well as the um uh how solid the cliff edges and whether the launch point is safe. Uh and then some of the other stuff the parking plan

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erosion tenants cap enforcement uh applicant funded monitor uh well I'll talk about those in a second. vehicle depolution, there would have to be a lot of things removed from the vehicle before it's it's it goes over

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the the edge and uh after it's recovered, uh we'd want you want to make sure that the uh it's all properly disposed of, not buried on the site or anything like that. Uh and everything is hauled off. Um these are some of the

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things I mentioned earlier, the charitable solicitation, registration, food, liquor, that sorts of things. So there's three there's three ways if you to that you could approach this. Uh you could recommend that the board finds it reasonably anticipates the event will

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exceed 499 attendees and and all the rest of these compliance under ordinance 33 would apply. You could recommend to the board accept 49 but add some conditions that you think are you know uh uh uh showstoppers that really should

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be addressed. basically taking anything that's required under ordinance 33 and making it a condition of the conditional use permit. Uh or you could recommend denial or or extend uh uh 60 days for

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more uh more time to consider. Of course, that would exceed their uh the when the event is currently planned for. Um so I I'm going to give you some example conditions and these are the kinds of things that I that I wanted uh

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the characteristics that I wanted them to have. Uh we're not going to enforce other agencies laws. Uh we don't want to provide day of uh responsibilities for uh planning environmental services or bury them in work. uh it has to be

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focused on uh the applicant proving that they've done these things, not us collecting the things. So if if the applicant doesn't respond anything, the uh permit is not effective. Um until plan environmental services would

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certify that all these things are done. Uh and and the if there is a cap, if it stays at 499, it has to be enforced and provable and auditable that there's only 49 499 people in there, which means um

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uh number tickets or wristbands or or limited parking or something like that. So, uh they have I I believe they have uh looked at event liability insurance, though there's questions. I I think the injury insurance was only $5,000 uh or

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something like that and it should be much much higher than that. Uh and needs to address uh uh indemnification of the county. Uh could require proof of vehicle preparation. Uh they have a checklist they have which is good. Uh and it it's

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it mirrors what kind of things the state requires. And so you may want to have them submit those and certify that they've done all that. um a final inspection after the event is over to make sure that that it's been entirely clean and restored to its original condition and there's no

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pollution or anything like that. Uh methodology to enforce an attendance cap if it's at 499. Uh and um and if they sell 500 tickets before the event, it becomes an ordinance 33 event that has

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master has to meet all the regulations. Um, and then capacity limiting. Uh, again, just making sure that if if if they say there's going to be no more than 499 people there, that there is actually not more than 499 people there

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without us having to stand there and count, uh, the number of people. Um, uh, another con potential condition would be an applicant funded on-site monitor with pre-written authority to stop the event at their discretion. So,

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if they see the 501st person walk through there or they look at what's a launch and they say that doesn't look safe to me, they would have the authority to just shut it down. Um, and that would, you know, that could be a offduty sheriff's deputy who they're

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paying for or it could be another county employee that is being paid to do that outside of their their normal responsibilities. >> Um, uh, and making it self bre self-executing breach and all all that really means is that we don't have to go

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out and prove something in order to show that they breached. It's it's up to them to show that they have not. uh which means that if if there's 501 people in there, we don't have to go to court and prove there's 501 people in there. It's

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it's shut down by default. Um a a a pre-event compliance certification. I I think this would this if if we were going to add a lot of conditions and a lot of see a lot of certificates, I think the way to minimize the burden on county staff would be that they would

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send one packet with everything and then uh uh the plan environmental services director would evaluate to see if it's meets all the requirements and then certify that it does and they're ready to go because otherwise, you know, it's you're chasing paper back and forth and

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and where did this go? where did that go? Did we have this? And and if it just comes in one packet and sit down for, you know, half hour and look through it is it would be a lot easier on county staff. Um all the other approvals would be proof only. We're not going to go out

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and inspect things that are outside the county's jurisdiction. Uh and we would have the ability to uh inspect the site at any time and revoke uh the permit at any time for any reason. And that is that was it.

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>> Yes. >> Um are the the people involved in putting this on are they counted in the 499 or that's >> Yeah. Uh they're not for purposes of the

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of the uh ordinance 33. The u the staff who are working the event are not counted among those people. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. How about the 15 and under people that there's no charge for? No ticket. >> Yeah, there would have to be a wristband

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or or or a 1500 ticket, something that could be counted. Yeah. Yeah. Steve, aside from the automobiles being prepared beforehand, going off and then cleaned up afterwards,

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>> uh, does this differ in any significant way from, for example, a musical event >> that would be put off on in the same location? [clears throat] >> Yeah, there there's some similarities, but there's some, I think, important differences. Um the uh the main

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difference is you know the fundamental job of the county is to protect the health, safety and welfare. A musical event we've seen those before and we could assess what we think is going to happen. Uh this is something that uh is very unusual. It's cool. It's

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fun. But but uh in terms of protecting the health, safety, and welfare, we've never seen this before. And so, uh, all those all those questions just the simple question of how far does the does the crowd does the audience need to be away? I I have no idea, you know, or how

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do you what what what is the safe way to launch a car off a cliff? Uh, those are things that that need to be, you know, that you may want to consider having addressed that wouldn't be an issue for a musical event. But some of the issues, the parking, the the uh uh uh toilets

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and yeah, water, all those things. Yeah, there'd be a lot of similarities. This one just has some particular circumstances. And and again, I'm not uh I'm not recommending one way or another. It's kind of that's kind of the the um

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uh why you guys are here and why the board exists to look at these discretionary things and say, you know, in our judgment, do we think that these things need to be addressed or or do we think it's fine? Uh but I wanted to give you the scope of what uh was available to

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you. >> Yes, >> Steve. When we're dealing with a set set date of August 23rd, what happens? it's storming four hours that day and they decide to postpone it till the following week. >> I mean, do we give them that option or do you just say no, it's that day or

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nothing? >> Well, the way the way the the permit is uh the uh uh permit is drafted right now would have to be that day. Uh so they would have to come back. back. I mean, I guess you could put a provision in there that if for any reason it can't go on, they could come back and get approval

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for a different day, an alternative day, or you could provide a method if it can't go on, notify the county of the date that it's going to go on or something like that. Uh, you could write that into the permit so that they wouldn't have to come back. >> Wonderful.

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>> Yeah. Um, Steve, uh, thanks for all the, um, cautionary um, advice. Kind of a crazy event. I've never heard of anything. I don't, you know, launching. Do you just push them over the edge and they go clunk or I I don't see what the draw is. I guess I don't I don't understand.

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>> Demolition derby. >> Yeah. Well, demolition derby. Yeah, you're ramming here, but this is just I don't know what means >> watch hours of this on YouTube already. I haven't. Yeah. >> Okay. I I haven't done that. Um, have you checked out [clears throat] the um I

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know the land owners are local, but this this uh pri this nonprofit organization you said they're based in Nevada, but there's a Wisconsin chapter and then it it's it's all Wisconsin and you know, I'm sorry, we got a border here. I mean, what are the advantages to Mi Winona

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County, Minnesota conducting this? Do we benefit from any of the proceeds? And then I did look at the um the event insurance price code and I know every state has a lot of different rules and Minnesota has a lot different rules in Wisconsin but it says event location

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Wisconsin. So I don't even know if this is a valid insurance because every state's very different as far as what they require for insuranceances. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So the validity of the organization I I I apologize. I should have probably Googled it myself but I did not. No, I I

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did look up and I don't I I I mean I don't want to disparage them. I I I would just I would assume they're good, well-meaning people. Um it it is it was difficult for me to determine who exactly was taking responsibility for

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the event because there's a a handful of organizations with this name throughout the country. Uh the Nevada organization it seems to be the central main organization. Wisconsin is a chapter.

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The Wisconsin is organization is uh incorporated separately in Wisconsin. Uh I I don't know the corporate papers how they relate to what's going on there. I did find that the they were not registered in Minnesota as a charitable

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organization and their uh Wisconsin corporate registration was was expired for failure to file an annual report which happens and and if it's just one year it would be fixed by them filing the report. Uh but it would it would

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from a liability standpoint it would be uh uh good to clarify and make sure that the uh the people who are running the event have the resources to deal with uh anything negative that happens at the event. Uh as far as what's good for

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Minnesota, that's probably a question to get ask the the petitioners petitioners. Okay. >> There any other questions for Steve Everett? Um, I believe this event was scheduled for either seven or eight hours.

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Um, you were talking about 10 launches. That's a little over one per hour. So, you can't they're not going to sell alcohol on site, but you can't stop people from bringing it. So, if you're

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going to have a eight hour party with food and social event, we watch 10 cars go over a cliff. To me, this is more of a party than it is a car crash event. Um, I think we need to approach it from

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both aspects. >> It's a little concerning to me that the requirement is 90 days and we're only looking at five weeks. We're not being allowed to do the homework that is required of us to to

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permit something like this. >> And for all of our insurance purposes as a farmer or township, anything, you got million-dollar policy in Minnesota. So, I do think there should be a million-doll liability required. >> That's just standard in Minnesota.

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>> Any other questions for Steve? >> Okay. Thank you, Steve. Thanks. Um just question for Jordan here any other insight for you know brought up you know

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as to what goes on. >> Well they do a big one in Alaska every fourth of July that I've watched for the past few years. >> Do they push them out? >> They jam the gas pedal down and somebody just throws it and driving it. If these

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are mission cars with oil, how how you get them out? >> Well, I guess that's a question. >> You're supposed to have the batteries removed from them, >> right? >> Yeah. And all the fluids and everything, >> probably have a tilted ramp, you know. >> Well, I don't know. That's stuff that's not >> Yeah, we I'm sure I would like to hear

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>> done differently than what they're saying here. >> Yeah, that's very possible. >> Okay. Um, at this time I guess the petitioners, if there you're here, would you please step forward and state your name and address and give us your start

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of the story. >> Thank you. It's been uh really great work with the town of Dresback. >> I'm sorry. You need to for name and address. >> You got it. Nas Schaefer representing Chariots for Hope, Wisconsin. Um,

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address 17129th Street South, Lacrosse, Wisconsin. Um, and it's been great working with everybody. Uh, so up to this point, it's been really great. I can explain some of

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the questions that Steve had presented in much more detail. Um, first of all, you you nailed the event right on. It's going to be a fun event. It is a community-based event that is going to support um not only Wisconsin people,

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but our organization uh helps transportation barriers people within 30 miles of uh lacrosse Wisconsin. So, we've had applicants and nominees from Winona right in town here. So, it's not definitely a definitely not just a

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Wisconsinbased event. Um we are actually having this event as a a memorial event of two people who passed away uh in Lac Crescent. So I would imagine a good number of our attendants are going to be uh Lacrescentbased. Uh we've talked to

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the fire department and other uh we had a boy scout troop that from Lacrescent and that we've uh asked if they'd want to come in and help serve water and then they could have a cut of the proceeds with that too. So, this is going to be a

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community based event um in Wisconsin. Uh we were not aware that we uh needed to provide a um charitable event um permit to have this event. Uh you I I

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think he uh said that if it's over a $20,000 uh draw from the event, that is something that's required. That would be beyond our wildest dreams to get that on a first annual event. Um, I would say our goal is $10,000 at the most. Um, we

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have some inind donations, but we have some uh cash donations because it's a process that obviously costs a lot of time and money. Um, when I presented this to the county initially, they said, "Are you sure you want to do this? There's a lot that goes behind this."

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And you guys have heard already uh from Steve and uh through our site plan that a lot of this has been thoroughly thought out. Uh some things are new and I appreciate that because we want to have an extremely safe and effective

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event. Um unfortunately uh it won't be quite as dramatic as the Alaska Fourth of July launching off a 300 foot cliff at 60 mph event. Um, we plan on following every one of the

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requirements that the EPA in Minnesota has put forth for us, which would include eliminating batteries, motor oil, and gasoline. Dog on it. You know, it makes it a little less fun. So this event this year um the cars will be

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pushed over the bluff and uh engineered through uh one of our major inind sponsors uh industrial uh equipment company and uh tactical company called Kerry Industrial Engineering. They're one of our major sponsors and in kind.

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They will have equipment on site. Uh we're also working with a company that recycles guard rail. Uh the launch site itself will have guardrail barriers at the top of the bluff. That whole top of the bluff area uh as seen at the

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um on the schematic that was presented um is not accessible to any public or uh p or people that'll be as attendees. There'll be a small group of our launch team that we're calling them that have specialized skills uh in mechanics um

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and and other areas. Uh we have an industrial welder that's going to be working on a track system for I mean it's it's pretty it's really really well thought out. I'd be happy to explain that uh in further you know depending on if you guys have any other requirements

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that you have for us. We we're pretty invested in this. Um, Chariots for Hope Wisconsin is a standalone 501c3 registered nonprofit organization with the federal government. We the only

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thing that we have in common with uh Chariots for Hope uh in Nevada, but it's not Nevada, it's actually Nebraska, is that they gave us our marketing material and we are an affiliate of theirs. We're actually not officially a chapter. So,

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we would hold the full responsibility as a registered 501c3. Uh during this process, we did find out that uh we the email that was set up was an old email from the state of Wisconsin. We were behind in our

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application for our um renewal of our um state, I guess it would be our limited liability company or corporation status that was immediately addressed and sent back to the county board. So that is in

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complete standing. good standings. I was surprised it wasn't in here, but that that is totally uh we are a legitimate uh crew um that supports uh last year we gave away nine vehicles to needy families and served about $30,000 of

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discounted repairs within uh our organization and that ranged from a I don't know an 8ounty radius. I mean, it's it's been awesome. This year we're hoping to do 14,000 or 14 cars and another, you know, double up on our our repairs mostly with

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volunteers, which has been really great. Um, so I addressed I think oh 499. So that number the only reason that number is in this proposal is because that is the number that is on the requirements of a small size gathering in the

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permitting. Um, we are hoping to have uh as an absolute max. Uh and we have an electronic ticketing uh through our um our scheduling software for our ticketing that we have a max number of

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tickets being sold is 400. If you saw the plan, we have a ticket booth. So I I actually thought that would also include our staff and volunteers that were there, which uh according I guess to the plan that it won't. Um if we got if we sold 400 tickets to the event, we would

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be ecstatic and that's where it would end. Uh we can have a wristband system there with and uh put that into place where we could have 400 wristbands only for those attendees that come in and we could definitely provide ahead of time

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at our expense any records to show how many people are actually coming which a quick print out from our software through our our uh website that does our ticketing. So that would be super easy. Um we do have uh and I think it was

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included in the packet a requirement checklist which is really over the top in terms of EPA. Each one of the ver vehicles we've agreed to have them pro uh certified. um we will do that via

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picture via each vehicle and uh on the questionnaire we'll fill it out for each vehicle with VIN number if necessary if that's uh what you guys would like to do. Um and we'll do that uh we'll have that prepared uh at least one week

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before the event in each one of those vehicles. So, uh, insurance, uh, our insurance, I don't know why where the $5,000 or questionable amount. We have a, uh, two quotes right now for a million dollar

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policy at, uh, and then a2 million max, uh, currently. And, um, we are just kind of waiting to pull the trigger on that because it's not very inexpensive. Kind of like when we say, "Hey, we're going to launch a vehicle off here." Many insurance companies don't have a whole

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lot of uh you know experience insuring people pushing cars off a cliff with people watching. So I totally understand that and it's not inexpensive for our organization to do that. Um is it a great fundraiser?

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I don't know. It's a first annual one. We had a vision to do it and uh we have a ton of community support uh support with that and it's been really great. Um to ask the question, what happens if it rains? We're going to call it a rain or

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shine event unless um there's lightning or in inclement weather. This will be uh a one day. I do not believe. I want to discuss with our our team if we were going to extend that out to a different weekend if we don't do it. Um so those that are buying tickets, we'll have to

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understand if the event doesn't go on, the event just doesn't go on. And for most of the people that we are serving um and as we have that are ticketing, we will um either ask give them a refund if they really want one, but ultimately

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this a charitable event and any experience that I've had, most people just donate that uh regardless. So that's the uh possible permit with extension. uh the length of the timing of the event when we applied for the

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event that was setup the event itself and tearown. That's that's what we uh had anticipated for the uh when we submitted 10 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Um we as we were doing our uh

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parking of our cars, I would imagine people are going to show up if it starts at noon. I, you know, some people are going to show up at 10:30 in the morning, just wait, you know, just to sit around or whatever. Um, but we our gates will open at 10 a.m. for ticketing. Um, our food will start at

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11, so there'll be things for people to do. There's absolutely no carry-ins of coolers. is a non-alcoholic event 100% uh through our um and that'll be monitored through our uh in liability insurance as well as um our permit that

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we have through um our our staff. We are going to have volunteer security on site. We have a team that we're already putting together for that. That'll be a high priority item to make sure that that's not happening on this site. Okay. We are going to have a church service at the quarry and there's going to be music

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uh that goes along with that and so it's going to be it's going to be a really fun familyfriendly uh easy uh event we hope. Um, as for the launch itself, in terms of the safety of

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that, um, without high speeds and a pretty severe drop, without any angulation, these cars, uh, by every stretch of my imagination, and uh, I've taken some physics classes in the past, they're going to hit the bottom, and

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they're going to stop. They they really won't have an opportunity to roll the bottom of the uh, quarry where it's at. It is at bedrock and it's completely stone flat. So there's no opportunity like in Alaska for things to hit the side of the hill and keep on going. So

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these uh these vehicles are going to uh land flat. Even though that's the case, we have uh 4ft cement barriers and guardrail along with a 20 foot uh zone outside of where people cannot be. And

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that is about 60 ft away from our actual ideal impact zone. So, it's going to be a Yeah, it would be it would have to be a miracle for any debris even to get that far uh coming off the coming off the

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cliff. Let's see here. I think uh I think the description of the event and the intention of the event uh was really well taken care by the gentleman from the county and I appreciate you guys for your consideration of the of this event.

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>> Any questions? >> Yeah. So, and my understanding on the ticket numbers, you plan on stopping to sell tickets at 400. >> Yep. So, we use a app and I have it up on my phone right here called Zephy. And Zephy can uh you can only sell certain

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amount of tickets if you put that in there. So our ticket number sales are going to stop at 400. Okay. And then at our event I thought about that when he was talking about I didn't even if we get to 400 it would be absolutely amazing if we I mean who

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knows maybe it'll be like Woodstock and there'll be you know people coming out of the woods trying to get into Oakill Road to see this car fall off the top of the bluff. Um, we will get wristbands that'll number up to 400 and that'll be it. >> On the liability, um,

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>> does your organization plan on taking on the liability or the landowners? >> So, we have Well, our organization is buying the liability insurance. >> So, then you will have to have that physical address listed on your policy

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to be covered. >> Yep. And it is. >> Yep. Absolutely. Not Wisconsin. >> What's that? >> Not Wisconsin. >> I I think when that was uh we're in that we're in that discovery fa we were in

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the disco when that was submitted. We're in the discovery phase for uh liability insurance. >> The physical >> Yes. Oh, we will definitely need the physical. Yeah, it is definitely not in Wisconsin. >> It was only dated 710. So, >> okay. >> Yeah. 206. So, I mean I'm

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>> Yeah, that's not too far away. But we have a Yeah, we have that very specifically, >> Marca. >> Okay. Um, where else in the tri-state area have you done an event like this? >> Uh, this is the first annual.

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>> Okay. You haven't done one in Wisconsin or Northeast Iowa or anything. We'd be the >> This is it. >> Trial. Okay. Um, >> you said a couple of things that bother me is I represent Winona County. Uh, you mentioned Lac Crescent. That's Houston

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County. You mentioned the people that unfortunately passed. That's Lac Crescent. You mentioned Lac Crescent um, uh, police and everything. But it's Winona County people that would be responsible. The sheriff, uh, the emergency, you know, management and

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such. Uh, Lac Crescent can come across the border of course. Um, but and and the event of course is in Winona County. And you said you your organization does do volunteer or gives to people 30 miles. Um you're probably really at

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close at about 20 miles from Winona to downtown Lacrosse. Um >> you're going to put up guard rails and concrete barriers. Are you are you really intending to put them up and then take them all down if you're planning to

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do this as a annual event? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, one of the things that when when people do events here and everything, you've listed Nodine and um, Lac Crescent. Um, but we also have Dakota first

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responders. Do you ever, of course, it's the first time. um do you just for them taking their Sunday afternoon and being on call and everything which is what EMS people do and they're great volunteers but that your your organization might make a donation to those specific

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organizations because they do a lot and they don't get reimbured for it. Um right, the insurance is problematic uh because ultimately if something happened, lawyers come after the deepest pockets and the county probably has deeper

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pockets than chariots for for hope. Um so I don't know and this would be a question for probably Steve or legal staff if Winona County can be put on there as a second um you know uh there's a term for that. Yeah, additional insured. So that that insurance would

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kick in before anything the county would had to do would be problematic for me. Um I I really have problems with that road too. Uh you mentioned if it rains a couple inches that is a minimum maintenance road. I don't know if anybody else had opportunity to drive down that. Every now and then I take my

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little Honda Civic uh and you know and I have low suspension and such and I always question am I gonna make it or am I not gonna make it? I go down. I never tried to come back up the road because it is a shortcut down in Dakota. But I you know again if you have that many

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vehicles and I know you've created parking on site initially you were going to use county road one and that was a really big red flag but that is a minimum maintenance road and if we get a storm I'm not sure uh how rutdded it can

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get. I it can be very treacherous and you're going to be asking I I've had experience with people from the the big city and such. They don't know how to drive on gravel roads or anything. I don't think two cars can meet on that road. I I mean I don't know if you're going to try and make it one a one-way

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loop, but then you're going to be using county road one and that will encourage people to maybe park up there and walk down in and everything. And again, uh, our county highway engineer said, you know, pretty much absolutely not because county road one does not have any extended shoulder to allow for parking

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either. Um, but the the township basically didn't say if they supported or not um by by our form, right? There was non uh what did it how does it say? No comment. No comment. So, I don't know

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how how um thoroughly they thought through this whole thing. I mean, I I did Google your organization and yeah, it seems like you're legit and you've got a good a lot of heart. Um, but we're putting Winona County uh people at risk

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for liability and exposure and problems that we don't normally put our taxpayer in that situation. Um, and again, it's and then you're Wisconsin. So, I mean, did you look at a place in Houston County or Lac Crescent or Wisconsin? I

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mean, it re I sorry, I have a a bug up my butt about people coming to Winona County. We've had a few events come. They come in here, they try to, you know, use our facilities and our people and everything and then they leave and we never really get any benefit from

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them. We had that skateboarder guy do something down Homer Valley Road one time. We've had some bicycle races and I don't know what the benefit to Winona County residents really is and that's what I have to look out for. So

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>> Marshian, a comment to the road. Um >> our minimum maintenance roads in our township. >> Yeah. >> I don't think any of them you could meet cars. It's it's a one-way road. >> Yep. >> And almost every one of them is four-wheel drive pickup only >> and that's not even passable at all

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times. So yeah, >> I have not seen this road. I don't know what the condition of it is. >> I haven't been down it late. >> I do think that if we were to pass it, we need to add another condition that they must put the township road back to where it is now after the event. I mean,

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if it does get damaged, >> I I did not drive it recently, but it can get quite, you know, ruddy and and like you said, it's minimum maintenance. They just it's not rocked and it's not plowed and it's not it's what it is. It's a cow path from the top of the hill to the valley.

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>> And can I comment on that? Um, is that all right? >> Yeah. Um at the Dresback uh township meeting, the maintenance supervisor was there as well as all the supervisors and they had uh some specifics on that that

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they were uh they suggested that we do a one-way on that for the day and that they would uh help us out with that that process to do a one-way only uh before and after the event. So, it would uh it does accommodate uh two vehicles across,

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but we don't want that risk either because the shoulders could get soft or can get soft on that road. It's actually a pretty firm gravel road. It's not like a old mud road that I in North Dakota when I grew up the middle of a maintenance road, you needed 44 inch tires. But

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>> we would have to ask legal is is that I don't know if that's legal that you can It's a public road. So, uh, it's >> difficult to change it to a one-way even for the day. I I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah. I believe in the literature it

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said that Dresback County has the jurisdiction on the road or Dresback uh township. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Yep. >> Any other questions? Um, I have a question. Um so the the

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uh required assuming there's no exception made for it the the required application period is 90 days ahead of the event and this is turning out to be five weeks or maybe you've maybe it's a little uh

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earlier than that but um would uh are you guys locked into the August date or could it go farther so that we have a chance to work out, you know,

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some of the questions? >> Um, we are pretty locked in on our August date. Not that I mean, if you guys say no, we're not doing the event. I mean, that would be uh probably the biggest disaster of it all. Um, so I guess it's in your guys's hands with the

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preparatory work that we've done and uh the information that was received tonight to to try to figure that out. Are we going to put it out 90 days? Would we? We could. Um, I mean, if you guys need more time to, you know, get

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some more specifics and you need more information to us, we could do that. Um, I think it would be uh getting into the school season. I'm I have another job. I'm not just uh a guy that um supports the community and my family. I've been

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working >> if I may interject. Now, we're just a information gather, >> right? Absolutely. >> So, it's absolutely >> when you get it, it would have to go through the county commissioners and that meeting is August 11th. So, you're only got

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>> two weeks between that meeting and when you're proposing having this. And >> Okay. I I don't I'm I'm not not going to tell you what to do, but uh >> I don't think it's possible. >> Okay.

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>> The 90 days only comes into effect if we're considering this being over 499 people. Correct. >> Yeah. >> I guess if it is their first time, then next year they'll know to apply a little bit earlier if they do want to continue

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it. >> Yep. And there was a recommendation for us. we didn't have the event uh put together. Uh we uh talked to the planning commission here and they said you better get your stuff in and pay your pay your fees and

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hope for the best. So you know we we've done a lot of due diligence up to this point to get it to a point where it would be uh you know minus things that we might not have uh considered from tonight but I don't think there were very many and hopefully they were addressed and and we can go from there.

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Is is the land owner here? >> Yeah, the land owner is here. >> I don't have any real uh I'm assuming you you're of sound mind and you're going to make sure that this insurance policy fits

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enough to make you comfortable. >> Yes. Correct. So yeah, I'm Aaron Benson, the Corey owner, and uh I love the that land very much and certainly not going to promote an event there that wouldn't

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be safe and wouldn't return it to as good or better condition than it is right now. So, >> um obviously I'm I want no liability part of that. We're going to make sure that that's ironclad and that the insurance policy is in good standing. Um

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I'm familiar with this group. um they do a lot of good not just for the people that receive the the vehicles but also their whole team of uh mechanics and folks that volunteer. I mean it's a really wonderful organization. Um and uh

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so I'm in full support of them. I want them to succeed. I want it to be a good event. I um I drive on Oakill many times a week. Um, I was on there [clears throat] tonight even while it was raining very hard and um, they do a really good job of maintaining it. It's

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a much better minimum maintenance road than most. Um, it can wash out. It did when we had many inches a few, you know, a couple weeks back, but they very quickly they m it. It's not minimum maintenance. It's maintained. Um, so

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it's good. It's I meet cars on it fairly often. I don't like to, but we do. Uh if they do make it single lane, I think that's it's a great great option too for a couple hours. But um but nonetheless um yeah, I think they've really thought

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of everything and I feel like um they've answered my questions. I had a lot of them, a lot of the same ones that you had. They've really worked hard to make sure that it's a good plan. It's a safe plan and uh yeah. So >> thank you. Thank you. before you leave.

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Um, >> sure. >> Rock quories are we have fractured limestone. So, has anybody done any kind of, you know, how how deep do you get into this? Are 10 vehicles going to be at the at the rim of the rock corey sitting up there waiting to go off? Um,

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I mean, rock quaries are fractured limestone. You see, you know, things fall down all along, you know, all the time. So, how are they accessing the top? Where are they coming in from to get to the top of the quarry? I'm trying to picture. I've driven by there a

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number of times, but I've never looked at it from, you know, throwing vehicles off of it. >> When when it was operating when it was an operating quarry, it the access was from the top and there's a road that goes down into the bottom of it, right? >> So, that road is still there from years

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and years ago. So, I was I just drove it today. So, but anyway, that road goes up and down. So, there's a nice staging area up at the top >> that you can drive the equipment up to. and it's a easily uh blockaded. So, it's

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just one one road. We'll have uh gates there so that nobody else can go up that that road, but but you drive it all up there. And um there's also gates up at the top so nobody can come in from the other side. So, it's it's isolated. >> Okay. And then and then there's just one

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path. There's one spot and one So, they're they're not coming off in multiple places. It's just in one spot. Okay. All right. Because I see stuff fall down all the time on everything from rock quaries. So, >> um

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>> Okay. Thank you both for your >> I had one more question for Oh, the timing. >> Um you're saying that so have you been advertising this or how do people know? I mean, if we say no this year and you want to do it next year, how have you um

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you know, what's your advertising been? What's the feedback you've gotten or or haven't you advertised the event in any definitive way yet? >> We have advertised the event. Um, we have uh super positive. >> What do you use? Facebook.

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>> Facebook. Just Facebook. Yep. >> Okay. >> Just uh gaining interest. >> Okay. So, people are thinking it's going to happen. >> Yeah. They would Yep. They would love it to happen. >> All right. Thank you. >> Yep. Do you have a semi to send over the

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edge? >> Uh, I do have a semi truck [laughter] that's painted up with chariots for hope. Uh, that is not going over the edge. Unfortunately, not. >> You got one. >> Oh, yeah. [laughter] Looking for donated vehicles. >> Thank you both. >> Thank you. >> Thanks.

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>> All right. At this time, do we have a motion to open the public hearing for 7-16-261? >> So moved. Jordan moves and second it. >> Second. >> Everett seconds it. All those in favor

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say I. >> The motion is passed to open the public hearing for 7-16-261. Anyone wishing to speak during this public hearing, please step forward, state your name and address, and tell us

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what you got to say. for the second time. Anyone wishing Oh, is there somebody on the internet? >> Um, >> yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Go ahead.

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>> Well, thank you. Um, my name is Kristen Britesman and I live at 46176 Oakill Drive. Our private driveway is um right off of Oakhill at the top of the quarry and I guess we appreciate the

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opportunity to uh give us this moment to speak at your meeting. So, thank you for that. Um we do have concerns about the road and the conditions of the road being that we live on this road and know

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that it's a one-way street. um very difficult to have two-way traffic and it is a lowmaintenance road. I don't know that anybody who actually drives the road would say that it's not. Um we

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have concerns about parking along Oakill Road up to Highway One. and if there's any consideration for the neighbors of this property for noise control during that day as well as helping keeping

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people off of our private property and our road. We currently have visitors to the quarry that do come up and walk down our private road just so they can get a view of the the water and even though it's

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labeled as private. Um so I guess we would respectfully request that there be consideration if it is approved for the neighbors in this area to maintain their privacy. Also, um, one last thing,

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this is a very populated wildlife area. Um, I think consideration should be given to that as well. Exactly. Today, we had a timber rattlesnake removed from our property. And I just want you to know that that

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this is a very populated natural wildlife area. But thank you. That's all I have to say. >> Thank you. >> All right. For the for the second time, I think it's the

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second time, right? >> Anyone wishing to speak to your docket number 01, please step forward and say your name and address. For the third time, anyone wishing to speak to PC07-16-26-01,

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step forward, state your name and address. Do I have to go one more time? >> We'll go three times. >> Yeah. >> Three times. >> So, all right. For the third time, right? >> Third and final time.

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Anyone wishing to speak to docket number 01, please step forward and say your name and address. There's nothing on the internet either, Ross. Right. >> Seems true. >> Okay. >> Motion to close the public hearing.

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>> Louis motions to close the public hearing for docket 01. Do I hear a second? Did somebody said all right? >> Mike second it. >> Uh is there any discussion on the motion

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hearing? None. All those in favor of closing the public hearing say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Nay. The public hearing is closed. Now I hope we don't have to discuss it as long as we have so far, but it's up to us to have a discussion

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now. Well, I'd like to make a few comments um in regards to the insurance. Uh number [clears throat] two says proof of event insurance will be provided to the planning environmental department prior to the event. So, I think we can leave

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it up to planning department to make sure that there's a million dollar liability and that the physical address is on that liability policy and that should satisfy insurance needs. I had concerns about the 499. He said if they

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were going to stop selling tickets at 400, I guess all we can do is take their word for it the first year. Um the date they're going to have it regardless. Um as a township officer, I'm always concerned about damage to the township

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roads, but in the township paper, they put no comments and they put no conditions about maintaining the roads. So maybe if they're not worried about it, I don't know if we should be. And in defense of the neighbor, if there are

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people there that close to their driveway and their private property, maybe we should require the organization to post a couple temporary signs that day at the sides of their driveway and their property stating that it is

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private property. Do not proceed past this point. they can pull them off that night. And um we are acknowledging that lady's request. >> Okay. Any more discussion? >> We could add that as a condition, couldn't we? >> Yes.

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>> Do we Marca? Well, wait. Let's finish that. >> Um do you want to make a motion to add that as a condition? >> I think we can at the end after we hear more discussion. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Don't let me forget. All right. Marsha.

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Well, I unfortunately these some the timeline these things come to us, you know, and bang bang bang and yet we don't really have a completed application. I don't like the idea that the petitioner is the person running the

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organization and then the landowner is listed second. We issue conditional or interim use permits to the landowner, not to these organizations that come in and promise us the world. So, uh, and I appreciate the land owner is here, but

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it we need to deal with the land owner in my opinion than we do the organizer of the event. And the insurance doesn't say the land owner on it. The application uh is Mr. Schaefer. Um, more

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so um the part of it too is holding the landowner responsible responsible for cleanup after the event. Um, again, if if for some reason it doesn't get cleaned up and you got car parts and stuff laying

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around, have we created another salvage yard within the county? Um, again, we need to hold the landowner responsible, not the the event planner. I mean, they need to have an agreement with the event planner, and I'm not sure how we do that, but um and then the insurance,

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right, if we need to protect Winona County residents from being uh liable for anything. And then addressing the um the neighbors. Absolutely. Um a one-day event is different than if it was forever. And if it was a forever

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thing, we would probably have more what DNR weighing in on the Well, is a rattlesnake an endangered species? I >> really safety. >> Yeah. And it's a safety thing. Um I did not hear I I did see from Dave Kramer

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the the road issues, but I didn't really see um other than Ben Klinger sent us a note um that they would work with them after a but it's all after the fact instead of upfront. So, I do have some issues of us getting pushed into doing something, kind of reacting versus being

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proactive. I know the organizer tried to be proactive, but there again, we're we're being pushed into a very short timeline. And as as Jean said, the county board won't take this up until what, two weeks before the event. Um, and it we are short-handed in staff and

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for staff to uh try and pull all this together, it is very um difficult. So if the applicant can't put together a full package in one bell soup and this goes for anything future too. Uh it just it's

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very difficult to do our job and right now I'm I'm I don't feel comfortable with it. >> Any further comments? Louie road to hell is paid with good intentions and I don't think we're adequately prepared to do this project and sitting going on.

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I think there needs to be more preparation at least for the first one out of the gate. I didn't hear too much about the cleanup or prepared vehicles, but when they do crash, there's going to be a lot of glass if the glass isn't taken out of

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them. You, Mr. Potter, would understand the glass problem. >> All right, Everett. >> I have a question for planning department. Why was Chariots for Hope the applicant and not the landowner? We do that all the time. I don't like

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it. Don't like it. >> The agenda does list both. So it was it is considered both. >> Um any other questions? >> Seeing none. Um,

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have we all looked over the findings of fact that are there and do you agree with them or disagree? Want to go over them? >> Find their effort. >> Um, I mean, the township didn't make any

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requests to protect the road. You know, the neighbor did. Yeah, they they said, but if we don't have it in writing, >> you know, it is the township's responsibility. So, if the road gets unpassable and the neighbor can't get in and out to their private drive, I mean,

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the township is going to have to go back. But, I guess if they're not requesting it, maybe it's their problem and not ours. I don't know how we look at that. They they had their opportunity to put it in there and they didn't do it.

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>> Okay. Now, the conditions. Do you want to add a your condition or? >> Yeah, let me find where I got home. >> I think I think based on uh what uh Everford had said before, you'd want uh

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the county added as an additional and a minimum $1 million policy. Correct. >> Yeah. And those those could be just added as a condition to that. >> All right. >> And was signage part of that?

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>> Yeah. I I would like to add the condition that a required million dollar policy uh with the physical address and Terry for Hope is responsible to put up temporary private property signs for

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that day only on adjoining land owners. >> Okay. You move that, right? >> I make that as a motion. >> All right, Steve. >> Sorry, just one other mechanism I wanted to share. If it's if you wanted to as

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well, we could write up an indemnification for uh the uh chariots for hope to indemnify the county against anything in addition to having them as an additional insured. So in the, you know, in the outside chance something

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wasn't covered with insurance or was outside insurance, they would still be responsible for anything that uh impacted the county financially. Just a suggestion. That would be something that we would draft and have them sign. >> So that would be a statement of uh

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indemnification, >> right? It would be an indemnification agreement between them and the county. >> Louie, did you have a comment? Ever pretty well get I'd second Ever. >> Oh, you second it. Okay.

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>> Uh we have a motion seconded to And you want to reread it again? >> Uh that they that they provide million-doll liability with the landowner's physical address on there

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and indemnification to Winona County. Put that all into one. and Chariots for Hope is responsible to put up temporary private property signs outside of the property owned by Aaron Benson for that day only.

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>> Okay, Marsha. >> Um the the question of cleanup, you know, sometimes we put somebody's going to do a solar project or wind >> is that pertinent to this motion? Well, it we could be added as a condition, combine it because do we want to put

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some kind of bond because we talked about yes, they're supposed to take the gas and oil and all the stuff out of there, but if you got >> glass and tail lights and everything. Now, of course, again, it's it's private property, so I guess he would have to deal the private property person would

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have to deal with it. Can we do that or not? But I don't like the precedence of letting somebody come in and well, if they threw trash in the ditch, uh, you know, I would get calls to clean up the trash in the ditch. So, if I allow trash to accumulate on a private property and causes problems, I'm probably going to

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get calls someday, too. >> Um, if you look on the attached conditions, there is one um that I think addresses that. >> It's pretty weak though. Maybe it's too weak. you could you could look at um you know add it to it but um >> they had included in their um

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application that they would be doing a walkover and inspection with the property owner >> afterwards and I just added um that Winona County staff would want to um also be either be involved with that or have uh the opportunity to um to have a

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look at it afterwards to make sure that it is cleaned up is the intent of that. So >> if you want to >> intentions, but does it have enough meat to it? And there again, then we're taking staff time to come to, you know, to do do a walk through. And is that covered in the permit fee? I

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>> Well, we that's debatable. >> We we we tend to do a lot more for probably other types of applications. And so I think I was looking at that as like a minimum that we'd be willing to do um for something like this. But but yeah, that is a consideration. Um, you

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know um certainly >> um, the the only other piece that I was I was listening to the conversation and, um, um, that I just throw out there for to consider for a condition would be, uh, uh, the ticketing and attendance verification. you know, they said that

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they would be doing that with the through their um their website, but um um if you would like to um have that provided um including that as a condition um might be appropriate as well. >> Okay. Now,

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um >> Jordan, >> we're we're still debating Everett's motion right? >> Right. Because we're adding conditions. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Is there any other discussion on Everett's motion to add

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another comm condition? >> I don't know. What if you people feel like a bond or anything or is it out of line? >> I feel that that the land owner has taken on the responsibility for this and if

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>> it looks like he uses that property for recreation. So, I can't imagine he's going to want to devalue it. >> Yeah. Well, I I would too, but >> Okay. Is there no if there's no other discussion?

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All those in favor of Everett's motion, which I won't try and read again, and I won't make him read again, say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Nay. The motion to add this condition is approved. >> All right. Is there any other discussion

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on the conditions? I would make a a motion to uh add a condition for ticket verification. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> That's fair. >> Yeah. Is there a second?

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>> I'll second it. >> Everett seconds it. Is there any discussion on this motion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion to add ticket verification say I.

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>> I. >> Opposed? Nay. The motion's carried. Um, now what's your what's your ideas on do I have a motion to

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pass or disprove this agenda item or docket item? Before we uh someone makes a motion, I just wanted to say that uh going back to something Steve said

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about, you know, it hasn't we haven't done it before. I guess I I feel like it's first time for everything, you know. I mean, if it if it's a disaster, then we know not to do it again.

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Um it seems like there are enough formal arrangements conditions uh property interests in doing it right and I feel like it's a reasonable proposition.

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>> Okay. >> I guess due to the fact that we don't know if they're going to have 200 people or 600 people. um don't know the total outcome of the event. Um they didn't know timing. They will in the

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future um to apply. So given all of that, uh I'm okay making a motion that we pass the interim CUP. >> All right. Is there a second? I'll second that. All right. Everett made the

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motion to for this with the conditions and findings of fact. Jordan seconded it. Now, is there more discussion? Marcia? >> Yeah. Uh, tonight I can't support it. I I feel like it's being rushed that we

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haven't really given that the applicant uh and not the not the land owner. Um, maybe they don't totally understand our concerns, but the Mr. Schaefer organization. If you're as organized as as you say you are and everything, it just feels like this is not put together

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in a very professional manner and and maybe we can we can help you improve the process. Um protection of health, safety, and general welfare. So people come in, they take advantage of our beautiful, you know, environment and our roads and

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everything and then they leave. But again, I struggle to find what benefit does it have for Winona County District Five, which it's in taxpayers. Um, we heard from the local land owners, they're going to be disturbed, you know, getting in out of their house. I've got

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first responders that are going to be responsible. Heaven forbid something happen. I've got an emergency manager concerned over it. I didn't hear from the sheriff. I didn't hear a a direct um concern from the sheriff. Um, but it it's just a lot can happen.

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um that requires Winona County resources and I just I I'm uncomfortable with the application. I just don't think it was put together as maybe clearly as it should have been. Um no track record in all of southeast Minnesota, northeast Iowa, or Western Wisconsin. I mean, we

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are number one. If it if it's a great event and it raises lots of money, well, they then they come back and say, "I told you, lady. You're you know, you should have given us the, you know, the thing." But, uh, I guess with not knowing any of these things, uh, I'm hesitant. I I can't support it tonight.

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Maybe I'll get more comfortable before the county board votes on it. But right now, tonight I'm I'm apprehensive. >> Okay. Hearing no other discussion. All those in favor of position document

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7-16-26-01 with the findings of fact and the conditions say I >> I >> oppose. Nay. >> Nay. >> Nay. >> Okay. I I believe that the motion passed.

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>> Okay. Um >> you want to hand vote to take that number to the county board? No, that's okay. I mean, >> didn't pass unanimously. Doesn't the county board want to know that? >> Well, they should read the >> Well, the rules say we can use voice vote as long as

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>> Right. As long here. >> Yeah. >> And I think it was >> quite evident that it was approved >> by a voice vote. >> I don't see any of them listening in. So, yeah, they'll they'll get all the same information.

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>> Okay. They'll get the meeting minutes. >> For the principles involved here, your next appearance is at the county Winona County Board meeting on August 11th at 9:00 a.m. And at this time, I'd like to say that

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the county has gotten a lot out of the planning commission as far as time and effort for this one proposal. Yeah, >> we we have earned our commission for tonight.

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>> All right, let's go on to docket seven. Where is Where have we got? >> 16 page 53 if you want. >> Okay. Well, all right. Yeah, >> I should go to your agenda. >> All right, let's go on to docket PC

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07-16-262. Uh Olivia, you get the honors this time. >> Pass me that strong coffee. >> Good evening. >> Thank you. Um, so one thing to mention in the packet of paper that you received at

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your desk outside of the agenda packet, there was an updated site plan. Um, that was the staff mapping exhibit. I'm holding it up here if you want to look for it. Um, it should be right behind the Corey jump information and I have it in

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my presentation as well, so it'll be there too. Um, so this request tonight, docket number two, is to allow a single family dwelling on less than 40 acres in the ARC zoning district um, pursuant to ordinance section 10.4.636.

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Um, some site location overview. It's in section 36 of Homer Township. One of the changes from what they originally proposed, it was a 6 acre parcel. They are proposing it to be approximately 4.5. You can see that on the they hand drew

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in where that new parcel boundary would be. I'll have another map of it too so we can see it clearer. Um the the parcel as it currently sits is 79 acres. Um so they're proposing to split the site to be 4.5 for the new residents to be on.

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These were the original site plans that staff created as well as the applicant. Um you can see there there's the prime soils that they went through the variance process today. This is the updated site plan. Um so I'll flip back to the original for a second. You can see that it's um

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straight lines across to the west and then it follows McNell Ridge Road. What they're proposing now would be a shorter road frontage and then cutting it in. So it would um follow the hatched boundary in both of those images. Does anyone

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have any questions on that new boundary? >> So what you I Yes. So you handed out you've got a black line, the solid black line. Is that the new but it's dotted up there? >> Correct. Yep. So the black line was drawn in pen by the applicant. The new

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one, the proposed parcel outline is hatched um red and black in both of these images. >> The one shows a much shorter the handout appears to be a much shorter driveway. No, they're all the same length driveway.

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I'm not seeing >> you would ignore the the original driveway on that one that you have >> on this one, >> right? >> Okay. The house location on that one. >> Yep. So the original one, this bottom picture here, the original site plan showed the house up to the north more.

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>> Yeah. >> If we flip to the new one, you can see the house moves down. Um, so this the paper that you have, the white box was the original proposed

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location. The black outline is where the house is actually being proposed. Okay. some considerations of the project. So, the petitioner, Mitchell McN, he's a co-etitioner. So, like the first one, there are multiple parties involved in

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this application. He's the co-etitioner with the current property owners. He's the grandson. Um, and his grandparents own the parcel that he's applying for. They do farm the farm to the south of the

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parcel. Um and so he's looking to be more involved and eventually take over farming operations. The dwelling location was chosen to minimize disruption to the active crop fields um and utilize the existing access drive that they already have on

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McNe Road. The variance was granted with conditions. As Jordan mentioned previously, they did choose to add a condition um giving them development ability within the eastern half of that parcel. So that was um

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added to prevent more disruption to the crop land. So what I did on the bottom image under the variance granted was just hatched the eastern half of their proposed parcel. So you can see there that the house is within that area. and then they wanted to add a garage, a

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shed, structures that were related to their residence, they could within this area um following our zoning ordinance. Anyone have any questions on that? >> Would they have to get another cup permit for that or >> No. >> Okay. >> No.

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>> And that's down to four acres or something. You said you said something changed. >> Yeah. So, they were originally proposing six acres for the whole parcel. Now it's 4.5. They the board of adjustment wanted development to stay in the eastern half

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of that 4.5 acre parcel. >> Yes, >> Olivia. In the original proposal, the house is closer to the road, which would take less land out of production. So, why did they decided to move it in farther off the road? >> Yeah, I can let them address that if

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that's okay with you when they come up. >> Some photos of the site. Um, looking southwest. This is the photo on the right hand side and then the aerial um in the bottom left. But looking southwest, you can see the farm there in the the far background. The cones there show the outline of the building

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footprint where the house would be going. Looking to the northwest >> northeast you can see there is a a farm road farm path that they use for machinery. already. The intent was to site the home location in an area that's

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already not being um maximized for crop production. This is that existing access road off of McNal Ridge Road. Um and then looking south down the road itself. This would be um going out back

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to the main road past the farm. Homer Township um heard the request at their June 8th meeting. When they heard the request, they checked the box that said no comments, but they meant to check the box that was in support of. So, you'll see in your packet there is a note to that effect.

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Our recommendation tonight would be that you consider all materials and testimony before making findings that support their decision. The um petitioner is here and able to answer any questions as well. We did do the analysis and draft findings in support of granting the petition as a conditional use um for a

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new dwelling on less than the required acreage. Um and should you decide to recommend approval, we have drafted three conditions for your consideration. >> Are there any questions for Olivia? >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> All right. Would the petitioners please step forward, state their name and address and tell us your version? Mitch McN address is 24562 Pwquick Loop Road

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on uh Everett your question. The original drawing was just I was on Beacon just trying to get some sort of idea to turn into even start this whole

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process and it just got it was there. But then when I marked it out with the cones and actually took an aerial picture of it, that's where it ended up because I wasn't actually

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intending on building on that very first drawing because we all you can see where my side by side is. That road goes out at a 90° to the one that accesses the McN ridge

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road. And to keep everything within a buffer strip, which is the the new plan compared to the first one on the picture, it's in the middle of our corn and soybeans. So, it is actually disrupting more of our

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valuable land compared to just our buffer strip and it being on a field drive. >> Anything else you'd like to share with us? >> I don't if there's anything else you would like

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to know. I mean, other than >> So, I guess a question. So you'll be your house will be surrounded by crops. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Because there's you're not Yeah. You got woods, but that's quite a >> It would be down in >> down over the hill.

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>> Yeah. >> Would be woodland. But yes, my lawn would be primarily corn, soybeans, and hay. >> Okay. But no feed lots. >> Nope. >> It's unfortunate. >> Grandma and grandpa already got cows. Not good.

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with with >> I I got to take care of them the way it is. >> With the exception of your grandparents' farm, how far down the road is the next dwelling? >> How far down? >> Can any direction? >> How much distance is there between your

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proposed home site and the neighbor? The next one would the farms from the farm from this site is a about a quarter mile and then from that site it's another quarter maybe closer to a half and that

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one's on the right side of the road the complete opposite side of the road. And then after his, it's half to threequarters of a mile because the road has a sharp 90 degree at the end of it that cuts it off. And

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we we own part of that and then there's a line fence and every the Olsen's and Stagmires own the rest of everything on the back farm. Is there any other questions by anyone?

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You look like you're considering, John. >> Yep. >> Okay. Okay. >> Just hanging on your every word. >> Well, it's pretty deep, you know. >> Um, okay. If there's no other questions,

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thank you. Thank you. >> I would move to open the meeting to the public. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> Second. >> John seconds it. Is um is there any

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discussion hearing? None. >> All those in favor of docket number two say I. Opening the public hearing for docket number two say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Nay.

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Public hearing is now open. Anyone wishing to speak to this public hearing either in person or online, state your name and address. For the second time, anyone wishing to

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speak to docket number two, please state your name and address. For the third time, anyone wishing to speak to docket number PC 7-16-2602, please step forward or get online

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clearance and state your name and address and say your piece. >> Move to close the public hearing. Jordan moves to close the public hearing. Is there a second? Second. >> Louie seconds it. All those in favor of

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closing the public hearing say I. >> Opposed? Nay. >> Public hearing is now closed. Marsha, >> I I have a question basically for Jordan. So I understand this. Looking at the the the picture uh of the

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>> the the board of adjustment. So the new parcel is all of this in the red da with the black dashed and that's going to be four and a half acres. Um which includes most of it is prime soils. So you you restricted the the condition you re now

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I look at it the top of the page should be north. It's not always necessary but it is north. So you said to the east. >> Yeah. >> Okay. To the east. Um that's the only place that they can add to the front. Is there a dimension there that you added

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to restrict >> the easterly half? So, um >> could you staff bring up that u one with the elevation lines for me? So, um, members of the or a member of the

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board of adjustment was looking to limit the amount of tillable land that was going to be used as is intended by the ordinance right? >> So, in looking at this, I noticed that it just starts dropping off steeper and steeper the farther you go to the west.

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So, um, in discussing it with the proposed, um, purchaser of this land, it seemed to the to me that the easterly part of the property was the most valuable for a building site if he were to build anything in the future. And I thought

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that would satisfy our board as well. So, that's why we went with the eastern half of that, >> the eastern half of the lot. So, so it gives them about a twoacre window to Okay. So miss the driveways. >> Yeah. So a lot of people are asking,

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okay, so we've got this uh supposedly, you know, minimum acres of f I want to say five. But we're always making adjustments to that. 40 you can do whatever you want to do without having to get all the jump through the hoops for the county. But if you go less than

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40, then you have to come get a conditional use permit. So we're taking land. So the question is being asked by constituents and such. Why are we having him buy four and a half acres? Why isn't he just buying? Because that then that goes into different ownership if you change your crop rotation. Right now

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you're related and you're family. But even families can disagree on things. Why are we opening this, you know, this opportunity? It it's a good opportunity for but things change. So why didn't we why didn't we make the

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parcel just, you know, like the two acres or something? And again, I don't if staff can answer that. We seem to be dividing our county. Constituents are asking, "Why are we dividing the county up? Okay, now we got a 4 acre parcel here. We got a threeacre parcel here. We got a 7 acre parcel

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here." I mean, we can only >> They want to go back to the 4040. They >> work with what they bring us. >> They They want to Some of them want to go back to the quarter quarter rule. >> Yeah. So, they need a minimum of 1 acre and they need to be able to fit septic and the building site and everything on it. So, we do typically recommend more than that, but it's really up to what

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the petitioner brings. >> Yeah. So they can propose anything between one and 40. Yeah. >> But again, like I say, I have a lot of people saying, "Why are we keep parceling our county out in all these little parcels here, there, and everywhere?" >> Well, 40 acres wasn't $400,000 when we made that either. True. Right.

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>> True. True. Exactly. But I have a neighboring county that does still pretty much uh honors the one per quarter quarter and it's harder to get a variance and everything from that that county. So, I mean, some people are doing it. You're absolutely right. But that's the question that's being raised

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is why are we parceling out our county like this? >> Okay. Is there any other discussion ever? >> Yeah. Uh when we had our own zoning, this family farm housing was always the toughest situation. The comp plan still

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clearly states do not take tillable acres out of production for building. Well, if you follow the comp plan, families never get to build in the corner of the farm. Um, our experience has been, you

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know, 50% of them get divorced and all of a sudden that's no longer owned by a family. Um, the grandparents pass away and then these move to the farmstead and then this house gets sold to a non-family member. It doesn't stay in the family that many years in most

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cases. Um, on the other hand, if you're a family and you can't sell four acres to your grandson to build a house, I mean, >> yeah, >> this is America. They should have that right, >> but it just totally goes against all the

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rules. It's really tough. Um, I assume this isn't necessarily um class A land. It's tillable, but it must have enough slope that it probably be >> was two and three.

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Um, so we're not taking totally prime land out. By his pictures and his wording, I take it he has done this to minimize the amount of acres out of tillable. Um, I don't know. I mean, it's really

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tough. It's like, why do we have the rules if we're going to keep doing this? Yeah. >> On the other hand, >> if if the interest is keeping land actively farmed and putting a young person in their own

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home on a small part of that land in order to transition from the older farmers who are wanting to quit, getting too old. I mean, it it enables that to continue being farmland,

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you know. I mean, you're right. Of course, it's a it's a tradeoff and it's a gamble either way. >> Yep. >> Well, and his grandpa was at the meeting earlier today and he he kind of assured us uh of his plans to to keep it

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>> keep things going through Mitchell. Well, we we have in here somewhere that they're held to everything they say at this meeting. Now, he just told me that his front, back, and sideyard will be corn, beans, and hay. So, again, does that go with the conditional use permit? The next person that owns it, will it be

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corn, beans, and hay? I I I totally understand. How do we transition? How do we let this happen? Um but again our comp plan and what was done many years ago has changed and uh again we're becoming a postage stamp. Uh

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you know um >> back in the 40 acre rule we've also got a lot of parcels in our township. They bought the 40 acres took it all out of egg production. >> Right. Have that option >> grass CRP and none of it's being farmed. >> Yeah. Right.

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>> So I mean that's it didn't solve the problems. >> No. Um it's a tough situation >> to create another one. >> Steve, >> I I just wanted to highlight because it relates to your discussion that the um the purpose of the agricultural resource confrontation district is to protect the

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working agricultural landscape of Winona County as a means to ensure the continued viability of its resources. The comprehensive plan, the agricultural landscape of Winona County is more than just the land. So there's other things that could happen that preserve it. So

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it is possible to look at allowing a family member to keep a family farm going by partially out the property as preserving the agricultural landscape. Uh so I I just want to clarify that the actual language of the ordinance does establish that though there are specific

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you know soil class soils that need to be considered. Uh but I think it the language could have said preserved agricultural land but I think this is actually worded very carefully uh to allow for that type of thing. Thank you.

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I >> think we should make mandatory that they have a feed lot anytime they subdivide you know certain amount of animals. >> Um >> goats cows. I also asked why where the next house was because it there's a lot of people that want to preserve country living which means the next house is at

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least a quarter mile or half mile down the road. Yes. >> So at least he's not from the neighboring house. >> Yeah. Not infringing on that. Yes. >> Louie. Well, last meeting we had we had one that I voted for my neighbor to add an industrial site.

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>> Testified for to that. But the site it went on to, yes, it would be construed to be prime farmland, but it was also a building site that he built that on. And the comprehensive plan should be taken into effect of this small 5 acre for

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industrial development because that means jobs and tax pay. >> So I mean this we're not doing this in a vacuum, >> right? >> Guidelines. Any other discussion?

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Do I hear a motion or do we have to consider the findings of pact and the >> conditions first? >> Well, can be part of >> anyone have anything to say about either one of those categories?

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>> I believe the the conditions uh were adequate. And >> what what page, Jordan? >> Uh, I don't hang them up anymore. >> Yeah. >> Six. >> Page six. The three conditions are

442
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>> six. I'm looking at like 62 or 63. >> What's that? >> 57. I'm sorry. 57. >> Yeah. Packet number 57. >> No. Yeah. >> On the far right hand corner. Bottom. Okay.

443
02:04:00.560 --> 02:04:17.360
>> Anyway, I would move to uh recommend this for approval to the county board with the findings of fact and conditions as they're written. >> Second. >> All right. Jordan moved and John seconded the motion. Is there any further

444
02:04:17.360 --> 02:04:34.159
discussion on this hearing? None. All those in favor of the motion to approve docket 7-16-2602 say I >> I

445
02:04:34.159 --> 02:04:50.719
>> opposed nay the motion is passed and >> fact right >> what's that >> with the inclusion of the >> well with the conclusion of the fines of fact and the conditions your next appearance will be at the county board

446
02:04:50.719 --> 02:05:06.400
meeting on August August 11th. >> Do have a question for this is more for staff. It seems like that number one uh a lot of times we've set in conditions, you know, the septic and the well and all that stuff. It seems like that condition one is trying to

447
02:05:06.400 --> 02:05:22.080
encompass all that stuff. And again, I don't know uh if we it it see appears to be a change for me. It seems like when we've had buildings, we've had more, you know, a new home site that they have to comply with the septic and the well and everything. But I think you're trying to throw it all

448
02:05:22.080 --> 02:05:40.000
underneath that number one condition. >> I think a lot of the zoning requirements would actually fall under number three. So composite all applicable federal, state, local regulations. You're right that sometimes the condition does state septic permit, driveway access, that's all captured under number three.

449
02:05:40.000 --> 02:05:56.320
>> Okay. Yep. >> And I don't know if that's good or bad. When you generalize too much, it's Well, I didn't know that, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if the planning commission has a preference, we'd >> I don't Maybe if we s saw a especially for a new home site, maybe if we saw a list that that was included in that,

450
02:05:56.320 --> 02:06:12.960
what's covered in that number three. >> Sure. We >> and so the applicant understands, too. I mean, it's a very broad general, you know, >> Exactly. They do get that list when they're starting the process to say, okay, these are your first steps, but if it gets approved, these are kind of the next round of permits that you need.

451
02:06:12.960 --> 02:06:29.679
Okay. Yeah. >> Dave, >> I will add that when I when I draft the findings of facts uh or revise them, uh sometimes they're different because there's a particular issue that's been associated with the property, if there's a disagreement about uh the septic or

452
02:06:29.679 --> 02:06:45.920
something like that, it may go in identified just so it's clear to everybody. >> Well, they're very broad and very general, which sometimes is good and sometimes not so good. >> Okay. >> Okay. Louie just left and I would ask if we could get a motion to have a fivem

453
02:06:45.920 --> 02:07:12.079
minute recess >> so I can leave too. >> So moved. >> So moved. Yeah. >> So second. All right. >> We are in recess. six o'clock starting time will account for days like this. >> Yeah,

454
02:07:12.079 --> 02:07:31.040
>> that's kind of >> it isn't. We imagine if we hadn't uh took two of them off of there. We done four or five are all the same. >> We removed the last two. So

455
02:07:31.040 --> 02:07:47.040
>> it's all >> So Jordan in Alaska when they do a jump like that. >> Yeah. >> Is it like off a cliff or is it like a down a mountain side or what? >> Yeah, it's I think it is a old quarry too, but it's it's not like straight off

456
02:07:47.040 --> 02:08:04.000
like this would have been. It's just really steep and they just >> they have something rigged up to jam the gas pedal down and they got ratchet straps holding the steering wheel straight and somebody just reaches in and throws it in drive and it goes

457
02:08:04.000 --> 02:08:22.239
flying off. >> I was reading it. I was kind of questioning one catapult. >> Yeah, I don't know how >> things are out over the edge. He was talking about a track or system or something. >> Well, if they got to take all the fluids and stuff out push it.

458
02:08:22.239 --> 02:08:38.679
>> Yeah. >> And I would imagine a track is to allow it to move dragging it on the ground. >> Yeah. >> But the rims with no tires on a track. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. >> Push it on a roll.

459
02:09:03.920 --> 02:09:20.239
You go down. I was trying to split wood. Man, is that hard to this one. >> Yeah. Not a good idea. >> It might It might be sitting in the yard for >> Yeah. It seems like every time you I usually put off all my tree work till

460
02:09:20.239 --> 02:09:41.520
winter and then by the time I'm ready to do it, it's 10 below or something. Yeah. >> I think somebody should have brought a case of beer. >> Would work gold better when it's cold. What's better is better.

461
02:09:41.520 --> 02:10:02.480
>> Yeah, that's true. >> Hey, you can drag it across the ground without getting all full of dirt. I'm down to stumps when you know they're this big. >> The little stuff I can throw that around, but that big stuff, god damn

462
02:10:02.480 --> 02:10:20.400
near need a lift or fracture. Yeah, >> I ain't man enough to do that anyway. >> I should just give it to my neighbor and say you probably come and get it and get it out of here. >> Luckily, I got a logger in the family so I can usually

463
02:10:20.400 --> 02:10:36.880
get a hold of him if I got something I can't handle. >> I've got a cab. It's got lift that roll it over. It'll pick up, you know, 250, 300 pounds. Roll it right up there. You

464
02:10:36.880 --> 02:10:58.719
>> Yeah, we have one on deck. >> We have a upside down splitter that goes on the front of the skid steer. So, you can grab a piece of wood with the splitter and split it right into the back of a dump truck. Very nice. >> Branson's got a

465
02:10:58.719 --> 02:11:15.880
>> I don't like that. I've never tried one of those. >> I do not like it because it's always challeng >> Yeah. >> cut it off in chunks and then you put them up one at a time. >> Yeah. >> Downsiz that

466
02:11:19.520 --> 02:11:38.320
you wanted to sell it. I'd pay the difference to buy it on the lift. We're both holders. Get what we need for going forward. So I take it most of this is not tillable the way it shoot >> way it looks. Yeah.

467
02:11:38.320 --> 02:12:03.599
>> We had one other one or can't remember >> something else we did down in that little valley too. There's not a lot of >> but they keep the equipment for 50 60 years ago.

468
02:12:03.599 --> 02:12:18.000
>> I know. >> Do we go after them too and say that's not going to be allowed. You got to clean up your mom too or >> kind of it's a hard choice. They do own the lab. But what I'm saying is that we shouldn't deal with these develop these

469
02:12:18.000 --> 02:12:34.239
projects. It's the land owner we're dealing with, not this guy from Wisconsin. You know, how do we hold him responsible? Chase him around. >> Such that bothers me. >> Yeah, it's all coming back to the landowner. >> It would. But really understand

470
02:12:34.239 --> 02:12:50.079
>> take another minute because Ross isn't back yet. So >> Marca, if you're requiring people to if they have a split on the land that requiring them to have a feed lot

471
02:12:50.079 --> 02:13:07.840
is feed lot could a feed lot be rabbits. >> It could it could it takes a lot of rabbits to make a one animal unit? Like I could have see in my day when I had my sheep I could have had like a sheep is only like 0.1 compared to a cow. So I could have had like

472
02:13:07.840 --> 02:13:24.639
15,500 sheep and nobody would have needed to. >> I don't think you would wanted that many sheep on my parcel. >> All right, it could be. >> Let's put the meeting back into active mode. Let's move on to docket number

473
02:13:24.639 --> 02:13:42.480
three PC 7-16-2603 uh to consider the petition of William and Jackal and Underh Hill property owners and Skip Weezner petition to seek a conditional interim use permit

474
02:13:42.480 --> 02:14:03.920
regarding the following Lou. >> Okay. Um um so this uh petition um involves a 19 acre parcel in uh section two of New Hartford Township. Uh

475
02:14:03.920 --> 02:14:18.480
you can see by the map here the location uh the blue outline is indicating the roughly the location of the 19 acre parcel. Um it's located in between in a kind of an interesting area where it's a a valley that's between the eastbound

476
02:14:18.480 --> 02:14:34.880
and westbound lanes of uh Interstate 90. Um I know it looks really close uh like it's in between there, but the the the valley floor below um the road, it's probably 50 to 100 feet below the road. Um, and so when you're down in the

477
02:14:34.880 --> 02:14:49.360
valley there, you you don't really notice the um the highway so much um um as the the map might indicate. Um but um Dakota uh Valley Creek runs through um through the valley. Uh it's located

478
02:14:49.360 --> 02:15:06.079
about uh 1.3 miles from the city of Dakota, which is indicated on the map in the the solid blue line towards the river on the uh east side of the map. Um, and that's in the north the south

479
02:15:06.079 --> 02:15:23.199
eastern portion of the county. >> I'm sorry, what did you say? The solid blue line represented >> the the solid blue line, the circle um like the the rounded edge square. That's that's the 19 acre parcel. >> I thought you said something about it was the city of >> Yeah, city of Dakota is is the black

480
02:15:23.199 --> 02:15:39.840
line over on the eastern side. >> Blue. I apologize. Sorry. [laughter] >> Kind of know the valley. I I heard I heard myself say uh say say black and I must have said blue. >> Okay you >> um thanks.

481
02:15:39.840 --> 02:15:55.920
Um so this site overview um of the uh uh the 19 acres um it's proposed to be split into four parcels. Um this docket number uh PC07162603 is parcel number one which is on the

482
02:15:55.920 --> 02:16:11.920
left hand side of the of the map there. Um it's approximately seven acres in size and has greater than 395 feet of road frontage. Um the reason that I'm including uh acres and road frontage um

483
02:16:11.920 --> 02:16:28.239
beyond just like basic u factf finding and presentation is to uh is because the subdivision regulations it's critical for uh triggering those subdivision rags. So, if you're 5 acres or larger or

484
02:16:28.239 --> 02:16:45.359
300 ft of road frontage or larger, that split doesn't go towards the subdivision standards. Um, if you're below that, um, you're allowed two splits. We call them small splits. So, below five acres and less than 300 ft of road frontage. If

485
02:16:45.359 --> 02:17:01.280
you if if the third small split would trigger the need for platting, I guess, is is a way to look at it. Um, in this situation, um, there's an existing home, um, that was split off of the original

486
02:17:01.280 --> 02:17:17.359
parcel, um, since 1970 when the ordinance was adopted. So that would be the first small split off of that original parcel. So essentially, when you're looking at creating new parcels here, you you'd be allowed one more

487
02:17:17.359 --> 02:17:34.479
small split without having to worry about subdivision regulations and platting process. Um, and so I just wanted to kind of set that up when we're talking about subdivision. Road frontage and lot size are are are key. And in this proposal,

488
02:17:34.479 --> 02:17:51.040
we're only looking at one lot, parcel number three that would be under that that threshold. So they would be um with the the neighboring property there. Um, I'll point it out real quick right here.

489
02:17:51.040 --> 02:18:06.639
This would be parcel number This would be small split number one and then this will be small split number two. The rest of the parcels all meet the five acres and 300 ft and so would um we don't need to worry about subdivision

490
02:18:06.639 --> 02:18:22.319
regulations. So just wanted to um let that um let you know about that. Um the existing farmhouse of the 19 acres is located on parcel number three as well on the corner there.

491
02:18:22.319 --> 02:18:38.559
Um and um Runaway Drive as well as Dakota Valley Drive carry a uh 65 foot center setback from the center line. So those are some of the key um um aspects of of that. We'll get into shoreland because

492
02:18:38.559 --> 02:18:54.639
that carries its own um set of criteria and standards um on the next slide. So, like I said, there is shoreland on this parcel. You can see the proposed dwelling is um is is roughly um 275 ft

493
02:18:54.639 --> 02:19:11.519
from the creek. Um and the shoreland district is defined as 300 ft from from the stream. So, or from a public water. Um, technically it's the ordinary high water level of the public water. Um, and so the mapping

494
02:19:11.519 --> 02:19:27.599
there shows the the shoreland district and the the proposed dwelling um just nicking the the corner of that approximately 275 ft away. Um, >> so Lou, you're saying the the whole blue

495
02:19:27.599 --> 02:19:44.479
parcel is in shoreland. >> The um the the parcel is is primarily in shoreland. Yeah. >> Um you can see in the north um northeastern corner um there's an area that's not and that's where most of the dwelling is located >> and those little the little white boxes

496
02:19:44.479 --> 02:19:59.120
is that >> that's the proposed dwelling rough location of the building site. Yes. >> Um the rest of the parcel is wetland and um steep slopes and um kind of natural resource area that's really not buildable.

497
02:19:59.120 --> 02:20:15.600
>> Is it flood plane? >> There's flood plane down there. Yep. Um there's a 100 foot setback from the stream as well. So obviously this is meeting that 100 foot setback but um that would uh between the wetland, the flood plane and the shoreland most of the parcel would be rendered

498
02:20:15.600 --> 02:20:31.520
unbuildable. um except for this area where they're looking at building [snorts] um part of this proposal. It's >> so when you because I've been asked so when if we grant these as each conditional use permit the new owner are

499
02:20:31.520 --> 02:20:48.000
they going to be restricted to where that little white box and such is >> roughly that location. Yeah. because requirements or >> just because uh that's the best um it's the best location for building um the rest >> how would a new land somebody oh I love

500
02:20:48.000 --> 02:21:05.359
this parcel how are they going to know that that that's >> well >> is there a restriction is it is it recorded somewhere that that's the building envelope >> technically they could get a little bit closer um um but um um um so I mean they've indicated that

501
02:21:05.359 --> 02:21:20.000
that's approximately where the the house is going to But I would imagine that it would be it could be anywhere para in this area um 65 ft from the road. >> Okay. >> And probably to the tree line. >> Okay. All right.

502
02:21:20.000 --> 02:21:36.479
>> But um um but you also have to provide for a septic system, a primary and secondary location for septic. >> Um so I know that they have had somebody out on site, a contractor to um to evaluate it a little bit. I don't think they've done any soil work. So, that's

503
02:21:36.479 --> 02:21:51.840
something that they'll still have to prove and and show be able to show that they can provide a location for their septic system and the house in in that area >> at that level already that there's proposed building. I thought we were just dividing up the lots.

504
02:21:51.840 --> 02:22:08.000
>> We're dividing up the lots, but I've asked them to um uh to show a rough location for the dwelling. We usually do because that would have an that would that would impact whether they're meeting setbacks and can meet that standard. So I always ask them to to put

505
02:22:08.000 --> 02:22:23.439
that on there. They're not they're they don't have to be exact, but they need to be I mean >> we want to know that they're that they're looking at that area and not the area that's down in the steep slopes or the flood plane or with close to the 100 foot setback.

506
02:22:23.439 --> 02:22:40.160
>> Okay. And so this is indicating that that they're kind of in a safe location there for the for the house site. Um the uh what else do I want to say about that? Um so the shoreland district does

507
02:22:40.160 --> 02:22:56.560
require a conditional use permit. So we have a conditional use permit on this lot for a new dwelling on less than 40 acres and also a new dwelling within the shoreland district. So there's the 10 criteria for a new dwelling on less than

508
02:22:56.560 --> 02:23:16.560
40 and then there's an additional four criteria for a new dwelling in the shoreland. So you'll see that in the staff report and the findings of fact there'll be a total of 14 criteria that we're um making findings for. Um also just have a map here showing

509
02:23:16.560 --> 02:23:31.680
soils. Um it is [snorts] uh the soil standard is u is satisfied. So there's no need for a variance here. Um, and it's because it's uh the class two and three soils make up less than 40% of the

510
02:23:31.680 --> 02:23:53.200
entire parcel. So our calculations are that they're right around 32% is class one and two soils. And so um they would meet the standard in chapter 10.4.76. Um have another site plan here just

511
02:23:53.200 --> 02:24:09.840
showing uh the contours. Those are two foot contours showing slopes and um uh we're at about 2 to 6% slope in the area where they're looking at uh at building. Um as you go closer to the river to the

512
02:24:09.840 --> 02:24:25.760
south, there is more of an embankment there and it gets steeper. And so, um, again with the access and, um, the flatter, um, slopes, uh, makes that area, um, a better place to build.

513
02:24:25.760 --> 02:24:43.280
>> Those two bodies of water, are they private ponds or are they natural? >> Those are, well, I'm not exactly sure, honestly. Um, they are within a um, a mapped wetland. Um and so I think that they are uh they are natural um wetland

514
02:24:43.280 --> 02:24:58.800
restrictions to building too close to them. >> Right. There is a 100 foot setback from um mapped wetland areas. >> It is a wetland. Okay. >> Yep. Yep. But that building site that they've they've chosen on this site is um is

515
02:24:58.800 --> 02:25:16.720
well away and is able to meet that 100 foot setback as well. Um the area will need an archaeological survey um because it's uh within it's a green field site so it's being developed for the first time and um um it's within

516
02:25:16.720 --> 02:25:35.040
a high probability area for archaeological sites. So just want to let you know that that's uh something um that will be required prior to uh a development certificate being issued. [snorts] Uh we have a couple photos here to give

517
02:25:35.040 --> 02:25:50.319
you an idea of what the site looks like. Um this is looking southwest towards the proposed new parcel from Runaway Drive. So you can see the the hayfield there um that they'd be proposing to build in.

518
02:25:50.319 --> 02:26:07.359
And then the neighboring home that's on that uh that first small split is uh in the the the background there. Can before you leave that photo, can you you have uh condition number four, existing forested areas between the proposed dwelling and public water body

519
02:26:07.359 --> 02:26:23.640
Dakota shall be maintained. So is that the trees I'm seeing in the >> Yep, that' be the forested area. And the reason that I did include that is just because of the shoreland district um and some of the um the language that's included with shoreland.

520
02:26:26.319 --> 02:26:41.920
There's another picture um looking back towards the east on Runaway Drive in the foreground which is gravel. It's also I don't know if I mentioned it but it's a it's a dead end road. It dead ends back um beyond this property. And then we're

521
02:26:41.920 --> 02:27:03.600
looking towards the east towards County Road 101 which is paved. [snorts] Um, New Hartford Township has um um considered the request and signed [snorts] the township acknowledgement

522
02:27:03.600 --> 02:27:22.800
form and have indicated support as it relates to the proposal. Um, and we have attached five conditions uh for your consideration. That's all I have for now. Do you have any questions uh up front? Yeah,

523
02:27:22.800 --> 02:27:39.680
>> original picture. You've got a barn on both ends of this property and you're you're going to put two more parcels in between there. How far are these from a feed lot? >> Well, feed lot. Um I think I I you might want to refer to the the staff report. I

524
02:27:39.680 --> 02:27:56.000
believe I did um indicate it was 2,000 ft uh on one side and maybe 1500 on the other side or something like that. >> Farther on the pitch >> possibly. And I don't know if which one you're looking at, but um um yeah, they're they're probably I mean they're

525
02:27:56.000 --> 02:28:11.680
they're a ways away. Yeah. And they're smaller feed lots as well. >> Lots. >> They are. One of them is actually um within the shoreline district. So it's a it's an older one um that wouldn't be allowed um these days. Um and they're not allowed to expand if they're within

526
02:28:11.680 --> 02:28:30.319
in that in the shoreline either. Um um the other one is um is further towards Dakota. Um and we did look at those and um I I had Brian um pull the registration numbers and they're they're fairly small and um registration as far as what we

527
02:28:30.319 --> 02:28:45.280
have. >> Question was brought up by a constituent that lives in that area when when they built back some time ago uh flood plane maps and I know the federal that's federal government. They're always playing with floodplane maps. So, when

528
02:28:45.280 --> 02:29:02.880
were those how current are those? >> Well, um the the effective maps are from 1984. Um and they're not super accurate. Um um but so that's what they would have been operating under if the neighbors had to go through some sort of um letter

529
02:29:02.880 --> 02:29:18.880
of map amendment or um had to meet some flood plane standards um that it would it would have been the 1984 maps. do have newer data um for like the over 10 years now and um it hasn't been adopted yet because of uh

530
02:29:18.880 --> 02:29:35.280
um different issues. >> Does new new maps change anything down in that valley? >> Um in that valley well I would imagine that they would change something. Usually the they've become more accurate and um in some cases smaller. Um, so in this area, I wouldn't I wouldn't any of

531
02:29:35.280 --> 02:29:51.680
these proposed sites, I wouldn't have any um concerns about flood plane of where the building sites are located just because of the height. I mean, they're like >> the building sites are like 16 to 24 feet above the creek. >> All right. Well, that was a question that asked. We're meeting shoreland

532
02:29:51.680 --> 02:30:07.760
requirements and the creek that's that's um there's setbacks from the the creek, too. >> There's 100 foot setback from the streams. Yeah. >> Okay. Marca back in 2007. >> Yeah. The flood, big flood. >> Yeah. We had no problems at all in

533
02:30:07.760 --> 02:30:24.080
Dakota Valley or the valley I'm in. >> Yeah. >> Which is just >> that was okay. >> The hill. >> Yeah. >> Because that uh the uh watershed is so short. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a little different than when you get over to Pwick and Right. >> Yeah. Right. Okay. Right. Well, there

534
02:30:24.080 --> 02:30:40.640
were concerns uh of some of the neighbors that had built prior. >> Yeah. And that's a good point. I did want to um point that out that we did we did get two public comments that are um on your in front of you um >> the packet >> and um expressing concerns with the um

535
02:30:40.640 --> 02:30:56.399
the number of lots um and um and things like flood plane. I think they were a little confused on a couple of issues. Um they thought that there was a variance that was being requested and and there's not. But um but still do want to point your um bring your

536
02:30:56.399 --> 02:31:13.520
attention to those two uh comments. Um, and then I'll save the um the uh um Weezer Law Office letter for the u the final two um lots three and four. They they've pulled those and are wanting to uh um reconfigure those. So, I'll come

537
02:31:13.520 --> 02:31:30.800
back and request those at a later date. But, um at this time, we're just looking at lot number one um on this docket number. Is there any other questions for Lou? >> I I do. I'm sorry. Lou, this is a little

538
02:31:30.800 --> 02:31:47.200
different. Usually, we do a conditional permit when we have a specific building project. Now, how is that going to change? Now, we're just dividing the lots up. How is how is that going to change the person who buys the parcel

539
02:31:47.200 --> 02:32:03.840
and wants to build the house? Are they gonna is it going to require anything different? I mean, it's something different. >> Yeah. No. Well, um I mean we get this I mean I mean the difference here is that there's four lots and they're asking for them all at the same time, >> right? >> As opposed to um sometimes there there's

540
02:32:03.840 --> 02:32:18.560
number of years in between, you know, one lot and or one parcel and a second parcel that might come on a piece of property. Um but otherwise, um it'd be the same process. uh you know, if if a a permit, a conditional use permit is

541
02:32:18.560 --> 02:32:34.960
issued that tra that that transfers to the new property owner and runs with the land, um it's their um um responsibility to do their due diligence. And I mean, we'll have a good record of the decision that was made and conditions and

542
02:32:34.960 --> 02:32:50.720
limitations uh of that conditional use permit. Um, plus they're not able to build until they get their construction permits, which would be your development certificate and septic permit. Um, so if it transfers beforehand, they still need to come in and get that. And we'd we'd

543
02:32:50.720 --> 02:33:06.240
be in consultation with those new owners um um before they were able to to start to build. >> Well, it's a fairly This one is the biggest I think this is the biggest lot and there's some concerns in the neighborhood. So, yes, there's a

544
02:33:06.240 --> 02:33:22.160
building envelope there, but you know, again, they're going to own the land. They're going to pay the taxes on it, but what can they do with the rest of the property is a question. Um, can they take their four-wheelers and make paths and, you know, run up and down because

545
02:33:22.160 --> 02:33:36.960
you got sensitive lands, you got a creek, you got steep slope and everything. But again, I guess it just goes with any any land that you buy >> do that right now. >> Yeah, they could. They could. But again, it's a change to the neighborhood and that so there's some concerns about what would happen.

546
02:33:36.960 --> 02:33:53.680
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is an area that is um, you know, it doesn't have a huge agricultural component and it has been, you know, there's been a number of lots over the years that have, you know, that have been developed and um, and approved. So, and with its uh you know

547
02:33:53.680 --> 02:34:08.720
its proximity to Dakota, it is an area I know Dresbach is um the township is really interested in finding areas that are you know for housing. I mean for people on the comprehensive plan, I mean I could see this area as being an area that could change to like a rural

548
02:34:08.720 --> 02:34:23.840
residential service, but um at this point it is some it is still agricultural um zoned and the comp plan does indicate um um agriculture for the and natural resources for the the future land use too. So

549
02:34:23.840 --> 02:34:40.880
>> any other questions for Lou? Thank you. >> You bet. Okay. This time, do I hear a motion to open the public hearing? So moved. >> Or wait, we got to have the um >> land petitioner speak or give him a

550
02:34:40.880 --> 02:35:10.800
chance to speak. >> Yeah. My name is Bill Underh Hill. I live at 30815 Old Hickory Road. Uh, it's a Lacrescent address. Actually live in Dresback. >> Uh,

551
02:35:10.800 --> 02:35:27.040
what uh what would you like to know? >> Well, I guess first off, do you have any further information that we should consider and then we'll we can ask you questions after that? >> Yeah. Well,

552
02:35:27.040 --> 02:35:42.800
uh Lou pretty much uh uh set it to uh uh this is a real uh real nice place to build. Uh it fits

553
02:35:42.800 --> 02:36:01.040
right in with uh with the rest of the uh uh properties in Dakota Valley. Um, and actually I grew up in Dakota Valley and uh, and uh, when I grew up there was probably six, seven farms there, you

554
02:36:01.040 --> 02:36:17.600
know, that milk 10, 12 cows or whatever. But that's not the case anymore. There's probably I'm thinking one farm ber uh, he's still hanging in there farming.

555
02:36:17.600 --> 02:36:44.080
Uh but the rest of the valley is uh is is pretty much just what I want to do. Uh they're beautiful building sites. Uh yeah, I I think it I think it fits in uh perfect with the area and and uh

556
02:36:44.080 --> 02:37:01.680
and I know people are looking for uh places to build and uh and uh and like I say, I I think this uh makes some real nice sites. Okay. Is there anyone on the plan

557
02:37:01.680 --> 02:37:16.880
commission? Everett, >> just want to clarify at the present time, do you own this property? >> Yes, I do. Yeah. >> And you're applying for this cup to make it a buildable site so you can sell it. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> Uh,

558
02:37:16.880 --> 02:37:32.960
>> yes. Okay. So, I've always questioned why 101 was paved. I mean, it it's a road to nowhere really and how it ever got paved. So when you sell these lots, these lots are on the gravel part of the road right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Well, tell them it's probably

559
02:37:32.960 --> 02:37:47.760
going to stay gravel because I live in New Hartford Township and our property taxes aren't going to cover make that a paved road. That is one thing, you know, when people move out. Oh, it's a it's a paved road, but they're on gravel, but they think, "Oh, then my road's going to

560
02:37:47.760 --> 02:38:02.880
get paved." Just so disclose to them, it's probably going to stay gravel. >> Yes. >> Please. Yeah. >> Yeah. because I don't want my taxes to go up to pay for a paved road down in that valley. >> Yeah. No, no, I understand. Yeah. Yeah.

561
02:38:02.880 --> 02:38:22.399
>> Any other questions? >> And it's just a short distance on gravel. >> I know. But a lot of people from the city, they don't understand gravel roads. You know what I'm talking about. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. No, it ain't going to get paved just because you moved here.

562
02:38:22.399 --> 02:38:38.240
>> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Right. >> Now, at this time, do I hear a motion to open the public hearing? >> Louie moves. >> Second. >> John seconds. Any discussion?

563
02:38:38.240 --> 02:38:55.200
Hearing none. All those in favor of opening the public hearing for PC 7-16-26-3 say I. >> I. Post. Nay. The public hearing is now

564
02:38:55.200 --> 02:39:12.960
open. All those wishing to speak, please step forward, state your name and address. And also those on the internet, if there is anyone, if you want to speak, please get off mute and state

565
02:39:12.960 --> 02:39:31.840
your name and address. Also, >> I'd like to speak to the board if possible. My name is Doug Soer. I live at 44530 Runaway Drive. >> Go ahead. >> Um,

566
02:39:31.840 --> 02:39:50.080
yeah. Um, I guess I have a couple of things. Um, I live right across from from these lots and or proposed lots. One of the reasons I bought the property that I bought was because it was

567
02:39:50.080 --> 02:40:08.880
a nice area to be in and was relatively uh sparssely populated and for a long time I lived there for 10 years and for a long time it was great and the opportunity came along for that

568
02:40:08.880 --> 02:40:25.840
property to come up for sale and some and Bill came along and and purchased the property, which is fine. You know, it uh he has every right to do that. They it it ended up

569
02:40:25.840 --> 02:40:43.120
over time he wants to put four pieces take that 19 acre property and bust it up into four pieces. And that's that's fine. You know, whatever. I'm assum I was assuming at the time he was going to build on one of those lots. um which may still be the case, but as of right now,

570
02:40:43.120 --> 02:41:00.160
I don't know that that's the case. And um my concern is that he ca he comes in, busts bust this nine acres up into four different lots, makes his money, and he leaves. And the

571
02:41:00.160 --> 02:41:15.200
rest of us that live in this what used to be a quiet valley has four more people, four more families, four more sets of of vehicles at the minimum going in and out of the out of a what used to

572
02:41:15.200 --> 02:41:32.399
be a fairly quiet valley. Um, that's one of my concerns. Um, you know, it's just it's just a population density going up in a nice

573
02:41:32.399 --> 02:41:48.560
quiet little valley. Um, I'm not trying to say that that that there shouldn't be any building on that site whatsoever. That would be unfair. Um, but what is unfair is for somebody to

574
02:41:48.560 --> 02:42:05.760
come in, bust it up into four different properties, and then turn around and leave and leave the mess behind. Um, you know, a couple of nice properties would be fine. that population density the the amount of people living near each other would be

575
02:42:05.760 --> 02:42:22.800
relatively acceptable or or not acceptable but uh uh you know I don't think that would be an issue but when you start gerrymandering and asking for uh variances upon variances or exceptions

576
02:42:22.800 --> 02:42:37.600
to the rule so you can break up a piece of property to sell them and get what you possibly can out of that 19 acres. That kind of goes against the principles of what you

577
02:42:37.600 --> 02:42:54.960
guys are doing. You guys are trying to uh look at a a piece of property and and see how it can be how the rules can be followed or should be followed. And the only reason this guy isn't coming in to do this so that

578
02:42:54.960 --> 02:43:09.840
he can build a house for himself and and have a house for his family like you guys just talked about in your earlier meeting with McN. This guy's coming in and he's cutting it up into four different parcels and he's leaving. And

579
02:43:09.840 --> 02:43:25.760
I I that sits wrong with me. Not just in the in the fact that it affects me directly or my family directly, but because it affects everybody in that valley, you know, it's from the very beginning where you come

580
02:43:25.760 --> 02:43:42.240
in, all the extra traffic going by them and and everybody in between. So I I'm in short, I'm against it. Uh, I would I would ask the board to take my

581
02:43:42.240 --> 02:43:58.960
uh my opinion to heart and and modify the four lots if possible to be less. Um, I don't want my uh issue to be a uh something that keeps him from building

582
02:43:58.960 --> 02:44:17.040
at all. That's not what I'm that's not what I'm here for. I'm just bringing it up that I think four is is getting a little out of hand. So that's what I have to say. Thank you for your time. >> Okay, for the second time, is there

583
02:44:17.040 --> 02:44:34.640
anyone wishing to speak or on the internet wishing to speak to docket number three? Please step forward and state your name and address or if you're on the internet, get yourself off mute and state your name and address.

584
02:44:34.640 --> 02:44:51.200
>> Good evening. I'd like to speak if I could. >> Uh my name is Bo Hanland. My address is 26532 County Road 17. Um and I'm really grateful for the opportunity to speak in front of the board. I've come to harass the proper county board more times more

585
02:44:51.200 --> 02:45:06.319
than maybe is my fair share. Um, I have a vested interest in this situation. I grew up in Lac Crescent. I've spent well over a decade in this exact valley. Um, I'm really good friends with several people that live in the valley. Um, I'm a young farmer. I raised cattle and and

586
02:45:06.319 --> 02:45:22.399
hogs. And historically, that lot was a small farm. Um, and part of the difficulties as a young farmer who didn't inherit the means to, you know, jump into a full-size operation is the cost of land. And part of that is because of this trend of older

587
02:45:22.399 --> 02:45:37.760
individuals or wealthier individuals coming in, swooping in a perfectly good-sized farm and then dividing it into smaller lots to line their pockets. And frankly, it's a tasteless money grab. The intent of Winona County is to maintain our agricultural heritage,

588
02:45:37.760 --> 02:45:55.520
right? And so allowing people to come in and and essentially subdivide lots that could have otherwise been placed back into a working farm after that house burned down. It it's something that I think should be discouraged because it really bodess poorly as a trend for

589
02:45:55.520 --> 02:46:11.920
young farmers like myself to be able to get our foot in the door on these small lots that could have been used for that there was al albeit not officially tillable that at one point was a corn field that at one point housed finished steers for being finished. um it could

590
02:46:11.920 --> 02:46:27.040
have been productive pasture land again. And so seeing it turned into a tasteless subdivision and increasing the demand on to Marsha's Marsha's point a very poorly maintained paved road albeit I would have almost rather it be gravel. It

591
02:46:27.040 --> 02:46:43.600
probably be a little smoother. Um it's just going to add to the damage and the use of the valley and it's going to take away from all the homeowners who have been in a you know in a secure position where they're not having to worry about a ton of traffic in and out of there. Um, so I hope the board takes that into consideration and maybe lowers the

592
02:46:43.600 --> 02:47:00.000
expectation on what's allowed for that size of a parcel as far as what's able to be placed on those lots if they're able to be divided at all. Preferably not. Um, frankly, if you ask me, I think somebody should be able to buy it, put up a single family dwelling, and maybe get a few cows and put them back where

593
02:47:00.000 --> 02:47:16.160
they were. That would be ideal. Um, so I hope the board considers that agricultural heritage and and tries to maintain that in the valley and and stops this trend um of of converting our small agricultural lots into even smaller ones. And that's that's pretty

594
02:47:16.160 --> 02:47:32.560
much all I have to say about it and I appreciate your time. >> Thank you. Okay, for the third time, anyone wishing to speak to docket number three, come forward, state your name and

595
02:47:32.560 --> 02:48:04.160
address. And if you're on the internet, please get off mute and state your name and address. Is there anybody else out there? Dicey or don't >> think there are two additional online. >> So, okay. Um,

596
02:48:04.160 --> 02:48:21.359
well, at this time, do I hear a motion to close the public hearing? >> So, move. >> Jordan moves to close the public hearing. >> Second. Uh Mike Mike seconds it. All those in favor of closing the public hearing say I.

597
02:48:21.359 --> 02:48:41.760
>> Oppos? Nay. Public hearing is now closed. Um I guess time for discussion. >> Well, um I'll go ahead since I'm living in that area. Um [clears throat]

598
02:48:41.760 --> 02:48:59.279
there's as we know a huge demand for places to build houses and uh that area is already uh popular for that purpose. I mean it's only back in the area where we're talking

599
02:48:59.279 --> 02:49:14.080
we're only like uh three four minutes from the interstate. um the what we're talking about for the land it's not prime soils the likelihood

600
02:49:14.080 --> 02:49:28.800
I mean to say that you shouldn't allow it to be split off because someone might want to put a couple cows there uh it's very very iffy

601
02:49:28.800 --> 02:49:44.800
the uh the parcel is u seven acres And um it you know the parameters for not considering a subdivision

602
02:49:44.800 --> 02:50:02.160
are all in place. It's not below those parameters. Um, years and years and years ago, I was kind of a back to the land hippie guy and uh I read a book uh five acres in Independence

603
02:50:02.160 --> 02:50:18.560
and it just told how you know using the old technologies of course in fact it was written about around the turn of the 20th century I think um where you know people could take five acres and do something to support their family with

604
02:50:18.560 --> 02:50:35.960
it. Uh this is seven acres. It's the size doesn't preclude doing something smallcale agricultural if someone wants to. So, I would support it.

605
02:50:37.520 --> 02:50:52.880
>> As Lou said earlier, when when we were in our uh comp plan meetings and brainstorming about areas where there could be potential development, this

606
02:50:52.880 --> 02:51:08.319
just feels like one of those areas to me. Um, we got sim similar areas by Stockton that I that come to my mind right away. And this is almost the same. And the the issue is that no matter where

607
02:51:08.319 --> 02:51:23.120
you think of those areas, all the people that already live there think that that's not the right place. >> I totally concur with you. Um, and

608
02:51:23.120 --> 02:51:41.600
my opinion is that this is the 21st century and I just was told that USDA wants to shut down their office building in Washington

609
02:51:41.600 --> 02:51:56.479
DC or one of the two because there's nobody working in there. And I think that if we think that we're going to have an agricultural enterprise on even the

610
02:51:56.479 --> 02:52:14.080
whole 19 acres, that's not going to happen in this day and age. >> Marca, >> um I it's a quandry. Not in my backyard. I live out in the country. I got my acreage. I don't want to I don't want any neighbors closer. But again, as

611
02:52:14.080 --> 02:52:30.720
we've discussed, I don't own it. also you can't control it. It's unfortunate. The the one thing though is that when we look at all the the lots, they're all open to the road the way I'm looking at and the proposed building site. But then I'm looking at page 91.

612
02:52:30.720 --> 02:52:47.279
Um uh at the bottom of the page, it says, you know, things upon consideration. Um I don't know if any uh I I think we've met all the setback setbacks. It says increase setbacks from ordinary high water. I think we've covered that. But then we have that thing limitations on the natural

613
02:52:47.279 --> 02:53:02.240
vegetation to be removed or requirement that additional vegetation be planted. I the neighborhood's trying to protect what it looks like. Again, they're trying to protect their viewshed, which I can appreciate viewheds, but I don't know if we can. So, we're saying that

614
02:53:02.240 --> 02:53:17.439
they didn't we say in this particular lot that they can't cut any of those trees down. loop. Didn't you indicate the back part of the lot can't be um >> Yeah. And that's that's part of I mean what you were reading there is is actually included in the shoreland

615
02:53:17.439 --> 02:53:33.200
ordinance um for consideration of a new dwelling. Um and the the point of the shoreland in this scenario is to um and the regulations of the shore land ordinance are to protect the um the water body, both the recreation aspect

616
02:53:33.200 --> 02:53:49.200
of the public water >> um as well as the as well as the um um the environmental aspects that go along with riparian areas. But in this case, um, Dakota Valley Creek, there aren't, you know, fishing easements through

617
02:53:49.200 --> 02:54:04.960
there. Um, it's not a navigable stream. You know, a lot of these ordinances are statewide. So, that, what they had in mind was it was a navigable stream. People might have boats on the on the water. um this isn't one of those um um

618
02:54:04.960 --> 02:54:22.000
those situations, but you still want to um the the idea is that you're protecting the riparian corridor um along the the river and so that's where um we included that that condition. >> Okay. So, yes, we everybody wants more

619
02:54:22.000 --> 02:54:37.279
houses and everybody wants their little piece of of heaven and everything and is this applicable? Um, but they're all going to deal with additional traffic, you know, go coming in and out. And, um, it is I see more of a a conflict when

620
02:54:37.279 --> 02:54:53.760
the the next person buys the lot and they're thinking, "Oh, I'm going to do this, that, and the other thing." And then all of a sudden, no, you can only build in this little corner of the lot, and you know, you have to have space for two septics, and and no, it's probably going to stay a gravel road. I see more

621
02:54:53.760 --> 02:55:10.479
of a how do we eliminate the conflict of the next buyer? What are they going to realize? Then again that it's buyer beware. You're supposed to know what you're buying and and such. But you know, I'm sorry. The wife wants it, husband's going to buy it, and they're going to figure it out afterwards. They're not going to ask all the right

622
02:55:10.479 --> 02:55:26.080
questions as they're buying it is is what I foresee. And I don't know how how we control that. I don't know. >> Well, I think this permit doesn't give us the authority. No, but Jake can worry about that, >> but we have to look health, safety, and

623
02:55:26.080 --> 02:55:40.479
general welfare. So, it's the whole neighborhood and it's the new people coming into the community. And there there's a a lot of things that go into that. And yes, can we control it? No. But again, how do we make people aware of what, you know, they can and can't do

624
02:55:40.479 --> 02:55:57.359
with a particular parcel? I don't know. I mean, the real and realators will tell them anything they want to hear to get the commission and the sale. We know that. Everett, >> uh, like Jordan said on the planning commission, um, we've been told to draw pictures and try and find places to

625
02:55:57.359 --> 02:56:14.000
build houses. I mean, we need more houses for Winona County. Um, we've all picked these type of areas as that location. Um, as far as the individual that bought it to parcel it off, well, everybody had the

626
02:56:14.000 --> 02:56:33.120
opportunity. Anybody could have done that. So, it's not that he's a bad guy. No. >> Um, if the proposed feed lot rules would go through, >> you can't have cattle this close to a stream on this amount of slope. You couldn't even you're not allowed to

627
02:56:33.120 --> 02:56:48.960
pasture cattle on that if the new rules go through. So, it is done as agriculture at that point in time. >> Y >> um like it or not, we don't seem to have a lot of say in the feed lot rules that are being imposed. So, I totally understand the neighbor's

628
02:56:48.960 --> 02:57:06.160
point of view, but we're only talking three houses. If you have two people in each house, that's not that many cars. Now, if somebody comes in with 10 kids in the family, that's a little different. But 10 years later, the kids are gone and you're back to two people. So, I totally

629
02:57:06.160 --> 02:57:29.200
understand the neighbors point of view. But everything we're being told is find these places to build houses and here is one. Anybody else? Okay. Um is everybody looked over the findings of fact and the conditions and

630
02:57:29.200 --> 02:57:47.520
they're satisfied with them? >> And again, let's are we looking at page 92? Is that help me out staff? Is that the ones listed on 92 or is that part of something else?

631
02:57:47.520 --> 02:58:11.200
>> There's five there. >> Those would include those will be the conditions. Yes, >> 92. The five. Okay. All right. Okay. At this time, do I hear somebody wanting to I move that we uh adopt the

632
02:58:11.200 --> 02:58:29.800
proposal with findings, effects, and conditions. >> And do I hear a second? >> I'll second it. Everett seconds it. John made it. Uh is there any other discussion? >> I have a question for legal.

633
02:58:30.080 --> 02:58:46.319
when this is if if this goes through and it's uh platted as a separate parcel, then will does the conditional use permit get recorded on the deed? So again, they would know. See, I I'm I'm going through an issue. I bought property 50 plus years ago. There was a

634
02:58:46.319 --> 02:59:03.120
declared rightaway, the the neighboring joint. All all of a sudden now he wants to put the driveway in with the rightway. I knew the rightway was there and everything and it was recorded on the on the on the deed. So will because we're saying the owners of the property which this conditional use permit is

635
02:59:03.120 --> 02:59:19.760
issued. So does it get recorded on the the deed that it that it has a conditional use permit? >> So yeah, it runs with the property. It's in it will be recorded and yeah, I mean it's good practice for anybody buying property to go pull the records and do a title search to see what the what the

636
02:59:19.760 --> 02:59:34.720
condition. >> I mean there's nothing really outstanding there, but again it's just making clarity that they know what that one about. You can't cut down the trees. >> Okay. Uh, any other discussion? >> I just to comment on that. Yes, it's in

637
02:59:34.720 --> 02:59:52.319
here and that's good. But doesn't the ordinance state that when you move out in the country, you can't complain about common ordinary agricultural practices, but at 10:00 at night, here's the sheriff saying, "I had to come out here because somebody complained you've got combine lights on after dark."

638
02:59:52.319 --> 03:00:08.880
It's >> Yes, we're all familiar with that. So it's they don't it's there but they don't follow. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. >> Okay. Is there any other discussion? >> Hearing none. All those in favor of

639
03:00:08.880 --> 03:00:30.160
docket PC. Um, let's see what docket PC 7- 16-26-3. Uh, say I

640
03:00:30.160 --> 03:00:48.880
>> oppose. Nay. The motion is passed and this one goes to the county board on August 11th, 2026. >> Steve,

641
03:00:48.880 --> 03:01:05.040
did I make another mistake? >> Did Did we have a motion in a second before the vote? >> Yeah. Yeah, I propose you. Okay. Thank you. >> Second. >> All right. Okay. Now I got >> Now I guess we get to do the same

642
03:01:05.040 --> 03:01:30.000
book, different chapter. >> Yep. The second item tonight um very similar to the first um for parcel number two um to allow a new dwelling on less than 40 acres in the ARC district. Um

643
03:01:30.000 --> 03:01:51.439
uh um our map um same uh same map, same location for the 19 acre parcel um that we heard uh for the previous petition. Um here we are uh with the uh proposed lot

644
03:01:51.439 --> 03:02:08.800
splits. We're on parcel number two. Um, so this is a five acre parcel with um um approximately 300 feet of road frontage. Again, meeting the um the subdivision standard. Um

645
03:02:08.800 --> 03:02:23.520
you can see uh the feeding areas on this one where it was previously pastured um um in a uh existing um hay field. Um very similar as the last one. It has a

646
03:02:23.520 --> 03:02:41.200
large area of uh riparian the creek running through wetlands in the low areas. Um an embankment that's uh forested and then um the building site in the um in the hayfield. Uh this is the shoreline district as it

647
03:02:41.200 --> 03:02:56.960
lays across parcel number two. [snorts] Um the proposed building site would be able to to be outside of the shoreland. So, this one only has the 10 criteria for less than 40 acres, not the additional four for being within the shoreland district.

648
03:02:56.960 --> 03:03:16.399
Um, proposed building site is approximately 300 ft from um the stream and 22 feet above the ordinary high water level. Um, here we have soils. Um, there's the soils cover a little bit more of this parcel, but still under the 40%.

649
03:03:16.399 --> 03:03:32.880
Um uh my calculation was that it was at approximately 38% of the parcel were the class one and two soils. Um thereby meeting the soil standard and not requiring a variance.

650
03:03:32.880 --> 03:03:49.359
Um here's the twoft contours uh on this site and the blue area indicating approximately the building sites um envelope. Um, you can see that the the the contour lines widen out a little bit on that side of the the the field. So, they're getting it's getting even

651
03:03:49.359 --> 03:04:09.040
flatter on that side of the of the field as you get closer to the farmstead. Uh again archaeological survey would be required um as it hasn't been built on before um and it is an area of high probability archaeological site primarily because of its pro proximity

652
03:04:09.040 --> 03:04:24.720
to the to the water resource and the flatness of the slopes um in the area. Uh couple photos. Um this is looking southeast towards the

653
03:04:24.720 --> 03:04:43.040
the new parcel. Um you can see County Road 101 is uh in the background there heading towards Dakota. Um this probably encompasses parcel number one's building site as well as parcel number two's um further um um

654
03:04:43.040 --> 03:05:05.319
back on the on the photo. And uh again um uh close to the building site location here uh looking to the east towards county road 101 which is paved and 10way runaway drive which is uh the gravel road in the forefront.

655
03:05:06.000 --> 03:05:23.439
Uh again uh the township has indicated support and signed the township acknowledgement form. Uh, and we have four conditions attached to this permit. Um, it does not have the condition for the for the trees because it's not it's not in the shoreland

656
03:05:23.439 --> 03:05:42.240
district. >> It's not in >> this one's not in the shoreland district even though the the the the setting is is pretty pretty similar. Any questions on this parcel and this? >> So, could I go in there if I bought it? Could I go in there and clearcut the

657
03:05:42.240 --> 03:05:58.720
whole lot? Uh, no. There are standards for um for for >> I'm cut down. I mean, [laughter] >> there are standards for you need a permit if you're um if you're over um one acre in the shoreland or or a shore implant impact zone. And um um it's uh I

658
03:05:58.720 --> 03:06:15.120
mean you could do a limited amount of um of tree cutting and uh and thinning in the area, but um um but clear cutting, no, >> but that's not in the shoreland. >> Yeah, but the cut the trees are >> it's a tree. The other one it is. >> Yeah, the forested area is within the

659
03:06:15.120 --> 03:06:29.439
shoreline. >> Okay. The forested area is Yeah. Okay. It's just the building site. >> Just the building site is not. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Lou, um, does you're talking about these archaeological digs? Now, can they do

660
03:06:29.439 --> 03:06:46.479
that for all four parcels or is it you got to do each one separately? >> They could they I mean, Bill could have um um could have it done for all four. Um, and they could come out once and and do the whole thing. That would be that would be

661
03:06:46.479 --> 03:07:02.720
>> that's the land owners, >> but but he could also sell them individually and then if they come forward individually, you know, then each one would have to do a separate one. >> It's the property owner's expense. >> Uh, no, it's the county's expense. The

662
03:07:02.720 --> 03:07:18.000
county pays for the archaeological survey. So, I mean, it might behoove us to talk to Bill and and um it might be cheaper actually to to get it done all at once. >> So, what happens? You go out there and dig and you find a dinosaur bone with an

663
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Indian head arrow in it. Does that mean it's not buildable? We got to dig more. >> Um well, um we've never had that experience yet here, but there is a process for doing that. We have um the the the uh uh archaeologists would have a recommendation as well as the um the

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tribal um um uh entities would also be able to comment on that. They might have to do more excavating or ideally they'd try to um build in an area area that would um that would not impact that resource. They'd have if they found

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something, there would be a discussion about whether it was and um it was u how do they put it? Um had the potential for um for being important essentially. Um um there's some section 106 language

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that you know indicates whether it's a uh essentially an important site or um something that is um is typical and not doesn't necessarily need to be saved. >> They're like an effigy mound and compared to ahead >> if it's a burial site that's completely

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different, you know. So effigy mounds aren't burial, but they are generally Yeah. They're kind of um you know, they're more they're kind of special sites. If you if you were to find like a some flakes from an arrow head or maybe even an arrowhead, I think we did find one site that had an arrow head, but

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they indicated that it wasn't something that we needed to um be worried about um disturbing. >> But are you sure? I thought the land owner paid for that. >> No, the county does. The county place for those >> change that. How do we change that?

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Well, at this time I think you're too late. >> I was almost sure it was the land >> add a condition. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, seriously, the land the county has to pay for. That seems like an that's the overlap of government reaching private property.

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>> When when the ordinance was adopted, that was the compromise. Um that they'd go ahead and adopt it, but they're not going to make the property owners pay for it. This was back in 2011. >> Yeah. I didn't vote for that thing either. So, ever since ever since then,

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the county has been paying for the ones >> and that are required. >> What do they dollars and cents? Of course, we haven't done a lot of them, but >> I think I think they're they're right around $1,000 for a survey. >> Yeah. And it'll be twice that now in 2026. >> No, that's what they are now.

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>> Oh, that's I think uh back in the beginning, I want to say that they're around 500 and now they're around a thousand for that. >> They're just doing a survey, right? Yeah, we we're still contracting with uh Mississippi Valley Archaeology Center out of Lacrosse. >> Put that on the short list of things to

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review. >> We can get you some more information about the the the importance >> looking at Ross and Steve. Put it on your short list of things to >> This is like a $500 permit with a $1,000 >> cost to the to us. You're paying for it.

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Yeah. Yeah. Well, so it's um it's going to be um >> total it's going to be $450 for the conditional use permit, $400 for the development certificate, and $350 for the septic permit. >> That all goes towards staff time.

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>> Yeah, >> it probably doesn't cover that. [clears throat] >> Okay. Is there any other questions for Lou? >> Thank you, Slooh. Um >> now does

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Bill do you want to come back again or you >> same thing? >> Hello. >> You still remember me, right? >> Legally, you should state your name and address again. >> Yeah. Bill Underh Hill, 30815 Old Hickory Road, Lac Crescent,

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Minnesota. And uh yeah, pretty much uh same as the other lot. Uh I just I think it's I think it fits in good with the valley and beautiful lot, beautiful place to build.

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And I can't see where, you know, one of the neighbors there was worried about uh increased traffic. You know, I I think that's pretty minimal, you know. Uh and I I should mention uh

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I'm surprised he complained. and he lives right across the road and uh the place was just like a junkyard before. All the neighbors were shadow were out all the time. It was a problem.

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I thought I did him a favor, but you can't you can't please everybody. I guess >> well I have a question. Um, in the interest of taxpayers, since you bought this basically for developmental purposes, would you be

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willing to pay for that archeological dig instead of putting that off on the taxpayers? I assume you're going to make enough on this that you could cover that and still be profitable. >> What would you say is,000 bucks?

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Z who said >> qualifs four >> all >> I don't know if they char would they charge it for each individual one or would they Ross >> well it's only going to be the hayfield I would imagine

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>> I don't know Ross can use >> come to this point >> that that would be something we would have to determine you know that based on what they they come out and determine what area needs to be examined and based

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on the amount of area and the amount of time would determine the expense. >> Right. >> Okay. >> But we could get maybe a rough ballpark before the county board determines. >> We could u have them look at it and give us an estimate. >> Yeah. Give us a a guesstimate. Okay.

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Right. >> That satisfy you ever? >> I mean I I think as part of the investment process that should be part of compromise. Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, if it's a $1,000, uh uh

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$4,000, uh I'm going to have a little problem with that probably. Uh there was one area there where the home homestead already was. I don't see why they have to do one there. You know, I would think it would just be the lot number one and not

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number two. Wouldn't you think, Luke? Um yeah, lot three we wouldn't be concerned with because it's an existing lot, but uh one, two, and four would require. >> Okay. >> But they could probably do this all as

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one job, right? It wouldn't >> necessarily cost $1,000, right? >> Yeah. Like I'm okay with that. Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Thanks. >> All right. Uh, is there any further discussion amongst the planning

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commission members? >> I'll move to open the hearing to the public. >> Second. >> All right. Jordan move to open the public hearing. Louie seconded it.

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Seeing no other discussion at this time. All those in favor of opening the public hearing for docket PC0716-2604 say I >> I post nay. Public hearing is now open.

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I haven't lost my voice yet. So all those in attendance wishing to speak to docket 4, please step forward and state your name and address. And those online, get yourself off mute and state your

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name and address. And all the people that step forward or get off on the internet, please take and say your peace. I'm back again to be annoying. It's Bo Hanland 26532 County Road 17. Um, I'd

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like to push back a bit on a couple of the board members comments. Um, I have a profitable cattle operation on less than 13 acres. So, I mean, at your guys's age, I can see how it's really easy to sit from your ivory towers and and, you know, talk down to small

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producers cuz we're not necessarily at the scale you are. Um, but to insinuate that it's not able to be done is shortsighted. Maybe you're not able to do it, but there are people within our community that can and are motivated to do so and work within the confines of what current land prices are and what

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current stock prices are and and navigate that market. I will say also, I find it ironic that the planning and zoning commission showed up on their uh PowerPoint literal photos of a hayfield. The current land owner is addressing it

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as a hayfield and then you all sit there and say that it's not agricultural. I also push back on the interpretation of the modern potential for the feed lot rules. That entire 19 acre parcel could absolutely be put back into cattle

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production with proper fencing to mitigate the access to that portion of it that's too steep. So I I I disagree with that strongly. Um, I think that this is maybe a situation where the board is letting the potential for increased revenue blind themselves from

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the consequences of people who are going to be around long enough to see this trend cause damage to our agricultural heritage in the in the county and I think that that's unfortunate. [snorts] Thank you for your folks time.

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For the second time, anyone wishing to speak or online to docket number 04, please step forward or get yourself off mute, state your name and address, and

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03:17:49.920 --> 03:18:11.279
have your say. [clears throat and cough] For the third and final time, anyone wishing to speak to docket number 7-16-2604, please step forward, state your name and

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address, or if you're on the internet, get yourself off mute, state your name and address, and state your peace. Have we got any activity on the internet? >> Okay. At this time, I'd entertain a

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motion to close the public hearing. >> Move. >> Ever moves. >> I'll second it. >> Jordan seconds it. All those in favor of closing the public hearing say I >> I >> opposed. Nay. The public hearing is now

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closed. >> Marca. >> Um to to address uh Mr. Hannon's issue with feed lot. So now if we're if we're creating all these small parcels, there still is an opportunity to somebody to have small animals. Correct. maybe not

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cattle, but um we have a we have a large expansive goat um population growing and I I was a sheep producer. You don't need the total acreage, but what is it all restricted now that they wouldn't be allowed to even have like 10 animal units or or what's the restriction?

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>> Um no. Um they would still be allowed to have animals. Um it's just a matter of you know with the smaller parcels you know the you know the ability to do that be it becomes harder right >> but even within our um or our our u um

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um or our rural residential zoning district that allows for you know um people to keep um animals and livestock. So, so each one except maybe that one very small one that we're not discussing tonight, each one of them could have a small

707
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>> They they certainly could. It's just a matter of um you know, the setback the feed lot setback comes into uh into play at 10 animal units. So, if you're under 10 animal units, there's no setback and you could have up to that many. So, um um and as as like the um the the

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commenter indicated, as long as it's not within um you know, it's not a feed lot within the um the shoreland district >> or um um within that wetland or you know, have I I don't I'm not I'm not the feed lot officer. I don't know all the nuances of

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>> selective still animal agriculture even on these small >> there could be some yes >> parcels but like I say we got a we got a huge goat population at least I'm relating to the 4 project last week at the county fair we got a lot of people raising goats and a goat doesn't take much space

710
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>> sure so I mean there's >> yeah those smaller types of types of things maybe a couple horses you know few goats chickens you know >> small numbers could still be Call me numbers of production agriculture still could be accommodated. Yeah. Okay.

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>> All right. >> All right. Is there any other >> comments? >> Question from Marsh and Steve combined. Since Mr. Underh Hill stated he'd be willing to pay a couple thousand dollars on these three parcels for an

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archeological study, we didn't address it on parcel one. It's kind of hard to address it on parcel two back to parcel one. So when this goes to the county board, can you address it at that time that he was willing to pay for it?

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>> Well, what what I would say is um it was a little unclear as to how much he was willing to pay. And so what you would want to do is put it at a as a condition that maybe sets an amount or sets what is what's going to be paid

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for, what isn't. Um, but you're making a recommendation to the county board so the county board could address the issue however it wants. It doesn't have to have the conditions as you as you state them. >> They can add their own condition, right?

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>> Yes. >> So maybe before the county board if staff could get a ballpark estimate on that, that figure could be added at that time. >> Yeah. >> Right. and it and to let the county board know ahead of time that this was a discussion at the planning commission and it's under consideration to be

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added. >> Okay, >> that makes sense. >> Yep. >> Any other discussion? >> I presume we've got almost the same findings of fact and conditions except this one isn't a shoreland

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overlay district. So, we don't have to have them, right? All right. What's your wishes? >> I move that we accept the uh docket number PC 0716286 04

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with findings of facts and conditions. >> Is there a second? >> Yeah, I'll second that. >> Jordan seconds it. Hello. Okay. So, we got a motion to adopt PC7-16-264

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with the findings of fact and the conditions. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed? Nay. >> It's passed. Okay. Um, well, it's the same lingo for

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you, Bill, as the last time. So you shouldn't get confused if you get the first one right. >> August 20 the meeting. >> Oh the meeting is August 11th >> just like the last one.

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>> So that's that's just for your information. All right. Is there anything else that planning commission needs to discuss or wants to discuss? Otherwise, I'll entertain a motion. >> So move.

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>> Jordan moves and Everett seconds the motion to adjourn. We are adjourned and thank you all for your patience and your understanding and your input.