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transferred over to the other thing. Carl, do you have >> 10:00 call to order with Township Clerk? Please read the statement. >> Regular meeting was provided to the public

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22nd 2026. would open and say 104-7. >> So the pledge pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States. >> Roll call, please.

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here. >> Here >> mayor comments. >> He didn't leave me anything. >> No, nothing to you. Okay. And uh public comments. This will be for current agenda items

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only. Limited three minutes per person. And do I have a motion to open it to the public? Motion second. >> Second. >> Uh, all in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Open to public. Anybody from the public?

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>> Seeing none, we have a motion to close it to public. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I review of the bills list. I have a question might not have the answer for me, but if you can find out.

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I saw there was another planter on this build trip. >> Hey, >> and it's $889. I've seen the other one. So, it's all the same price.

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So, I was wondering if this is taken out of beautifification. >> Do you have a number on the >> I don't I don't $800 something dollars. >> Yeah, I would have to look into that. I don't know that offhand, but I will uh I'll find out.

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>> Thanks. Yeah, just want to know what >> found it. So you're looking at a this looks like from last year number says 25-01125 town center garden planner. >> There so the check is 66339

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for $855.81. >> How much is it for? $855 >> because I saw a whole bunch last year on there. And then why is this here? Because it didn't look like we got anything new. >> I don't think we did because this is saying 25 is the PO. So I don't know if

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it was something that they were waiting to come in. I'll have to look though. And I'll >> And then just what account it's being charged to. Okay. Curious because I believe it should come out of beautififications and not out of the you know general fund. Okay.

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>> But thank you for doing that. >> Yes. >> I have two. The first is um 66371. >> Okay. Um and it's software and support $18,000.

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Just wondering what that is. >> That's for the DPW. It's their um uh their their software that they have to help with the um the um >> storm draining. >> Yes. Yes. Thank you.

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>> So that's the software that they use and that's how much it is. >> Okay. Thank you. And then >> Carl, just so you know, the state had a mandate that you had to wall the storm drains once or twice a year or something like that, >> right? >> Required to have this software in order to do it. >> Okay. So it was my point was it was

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another unfunded mandate premisy. >> Yeah. Do this but we're not going to pay for it. >> Yep. >> Um then secondly I saw it's our retainer for our attorney and I just have a question about it. >> Which number is that one?

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>> Oh sorry 66317 township attorney retainer 6,250. >> Oh yeah. Um, we got this memorandum about the um, pickle ball situation. Does that um, is that a retainer cover

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the cost of the memorandum or is that a separate? >> Usually I I don't do that. >> Okay. But it's still the same firm. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah, it's so like letters and memorandums are covered by your retainer. >> Okay. Um

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legal is different. So there's a retainer like that covers those things that covers the meeting but then there's like litigation that's separate. >> Yes. >> So this memorandum then was paid for through this retain. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I don't even think I build for that yet. >> That's just what I was just curious

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about how that was paid for. Thank you. >> No problem. >> Any other? >> No. >> Are you okay? Good. >> Okay. Mine were just a couple comments. It looks like a lot of tires and repairs

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for DPW equipment. Anything to report any accidents that occurred on the job or is it normal wear and tear? It's >> some of it is some of it. Um I know that uh there were a couple of accidents but

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not with the DPW trucks. >> Uhhuh. So if anything's being repaired, it's for the DPW personally. That's >> wear and tear. >> All normal, you say? Yes. Wear and tear. >> Yes. >> And we go to different vendors or it's always the same one or

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>> It depends on what equipment they're looking for, you know, like certain vehicles take only like they can only get certain parts from a different vendor. So, it depends on what parts they're looking

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for will depend on which vendor. And if it's over a certain amount of money, they need to get several quotes unless it's a co-op, >> right? Okay. Then the other one was on 66472. That's for 744,000

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to the MUA. So is that is is that a a sewage bill that the the MUA is collecting from the people are using it and we're just the the method of paying the uh or is this

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have to do with water? This is 66472. It says sewer usage fees 20 26. So Pat on MUA I guess collect some money from the >> that's that's the way I was you know I didn't want to jump in on Tina's um but essentially when there is an agreement

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that's arranged between the township and the MUA that we use um the address and the uh and the followup and everything uh when these when the use when the

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checks come in for payment it's then sent out, you know, uh, money's received and then >> we're just a intermediary process >> with a flow through. >> Okay. >> Yeah. That's the that's the uh service agreement that I always

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>> complain about because what happens is the MUA will tax the the rate the rate payer. They collect the money, then they give it to the township. Then the township has to send it to Skuma instead of right a direct interface between the

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local MUA and Skuma, which is the county. But that that's the the way that that agreement was >> like that lost letter for four months. Nobody knew where it was. >> Exactly. Yes. >> Bill, can I say one more thing about the wear and tear? So, um, it's normal wear

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and tear plus it was six tires per truck for the 550s. So that's why you're seeing that. So I guess they're updating all their vehicles and stuff before the weather comes in. >> Okay. >> And they needed to replace the tires. >> Okay. >> Thank you. And on uh

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66454, >> a legal piece. And it says for Legends Redevelopment. Is this Is this out of escrow? >> It should be out of escrow. I've got to find that. 65 66 4 54 >> 66

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Hold on. >> 54. Okay. Um >> where? Let me see. >> That's with Matt's. Yeah, that would be Yeah, then Yeah, that was Yeah, that's with um Legendary. >> Yeah, that would be um that would be um Matt Jessup.

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>> So, that's actually is paying that. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> And uh >> Yep. >> Okay. That Yeah, the two were couples. >> Okay. We just want to make sure it wasn't coming out of our pocket even

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though we're paying it. That's it for me for any question any others on the uh bills list? >> No. >> Consent agenda. >> We have uh one two three four five six seven

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nine. Oh, cow. 22 uh resolutions going from 26 233 to 26 254. And uh if anybody on the council wants to pull any of those out to have a separate discussion, just let me know

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before we vote on all them. Most self-explanatory non-confrontational must go. I guess we'll pull out uh oh separate discussion 26254 which is authorizing the award of bid for the AV project township council

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chambers. The motion and consent for resolutions 26233 to 26 253. >> Right. Correct. I'll make that motion. Okay. Do we have a second? >> Second it.

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And I guess we need a roll call on that. Roll call vote, please. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Council member Zudo. >> Yes. >> Council president. >> Yes.

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>> Have a motion to discuss resolution 26254. >> Second. >> Second. All >> in favor? I. So 26254 deals with uh improving what we've been talking about for every meeting which is

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the sound system, the AV system or the chambers. Correct, Tina? >> Yes. >> And if you could just tell us a little bit about what we're getting, are we guaranteed that the people are going to like it? Are we going to >> hope so >> charge $1,000 to reverse the screen and

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when we could do it? You know what what's it all about? We we went through we went to bid once and there was a lot of fatal errors so we had to go back out to bid. This was the second bid. Um we had three companies come in. One was way

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over bid and the other one didn't have all the proper paperwork and all they didn't meet all the specs and everything. So that was fatal. So, this other company, Commercial Technology Contractors, had everything that we put

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in our bid specs for here. >> Uhhuh. >> Um, and so they were and they're under our our budget that you guys approved in the capital budget. So, we're going to move forward with them. That also includes a maintenance fee. So, if we do have any issues, we have a maintenance

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fee with them for two years. Um, so they can, you know, once it's up and running, if something is incorrect or it's not working, they'll come back out and either replace it or fix it. >> So, can you tell us what was in that bit

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with TVs and cameras and >> Yes. >> Okay. >> microphones. And >> were we going to have a camera that's going to be on the people speaking now rather than behind them looking at their head? >> I believe there was. I would have to go back and look at that

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>> cameras that they put in. Are they going to be able to, you know, see the entire table? >> Yes. >> Yeah, >> that was one of the >> Yeah, that was one of the things that we asked. >> I think the clerk, too. >> Let's see. May, >> but I It's all new wiring.

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>> Yes. All new wiring. Speakers are all new, you know, because a lot of that static we think is coming from the old wiring and old speakers. Microphones are going to be replaced. the TVs were getting a couple of bigger TVs. Um, and

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everything was supposed to go right into like being able to record what needs to be recorded and it was also um good for the courts because the courts needed certain things that they needed for like

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um you know for any kind of trial and everything. So our uh administrator was also included in in the sex for that. Did the vendor offer an explanation of how it would work or was it just in writing and and bid fit spec or

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>> they they explain like what they've done on other jobs and everything. Um they also came in and they did look I was I showed probably at least five or six different companies, you know, they came in to look. They

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asked questions. They looked at all our old equipment that we had. And you know, with the new equipment, they, you know, they explained it. Um, I can give you guys, which I don't have on me right now, but I can send you the whole packet

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if you want to see the whole packet. >> Yeah. We just don't want to spend money and then still have people complaining, you know, because right now we got dead spots. You can't see somebody speaking. Obviously, the microphones go out often. I know over at the board of ed when I was on there, they went out and bought

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some very expensive microphones. They're expensive, the multi-directional ones. I don't even think they're using them right now. So, might be something for Carl to ask them if they're not using them. And we can. >> Who knows? They're >> They're Oh, never. >> It's not a bad idea.

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>> Yeah, they're in their closet. >> Yeah. >> Um >> the Oh, >> I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Oh, no. I'm just The maintenance of um the two-year ma um maintenance fee $15,000. What does that

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maintenance include? Is it something they'll come out but we have to pay for the part or >> No, it's all included. >> Meaning >> meaning them coming out and if they have to replace a part or if they can't fix it, it's included in the maintenance fee. >> Parts and labor.

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>> Sometimes you wonder just calling them to fix it may be less than paying this maintenance fee if they could come out for two years and everything's fine, you know. Also is there a guar a warranty period >> within that

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>> that normally would pick up you know and then the uh then the guar then the uh the maintenance would come after that. Yeah, I don't know off hand. >> It's possible. >> They make money as long >> because they're usually a manufacturer's

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equipment warranty minimum of one year and then when they roll it together they're combining their labor knowing that the parts are covered and then year two if something breaks then you have to pay for the parts. >> Um >> might be worth getting a little details

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on that. Might be able to save a couple bucks. It's uh is it something that's scheduled to to work to start? If we approve this, >> if you approve it, we would go ahead and we would move forward with getting it uh scheduled to start.

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>> If you want to think about it, we got to table it. If you want to wait for more information, >> do we have a time >> as to when this would actually be done? >> No. >> So, if we approve it tonight, we don't know when they would actually be

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installed. Yeah, I have to schedule it. >> Yeah. I mean, we have this room gets used by >> Yeah. A lot of people. >> A lot of people. We have court twice a month. >> Yeah. >> You know, we have MUA. We have So, they have to get in here when we can get them in here.

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>> Yeah. >> So, I have a motion to table it until the next time. >> Well, to get more information, if you want to look at the maintenance agreement, >> this this was a bid. you know, this this went out and they have to follow the bid specs. So, you really

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>> Yeah, you really can't cancel it if they were at the bid >> because the maintenance the maintenance was part of the bid. >> Okie dokie. >> You're the maintenance fee was part of the bid. >> So, they were >> because we wanted to make sure >> you're worried. we can

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>> these this company, you know, >> so if it's part of the bid, >> they submitted everything they needed for, >> you'd have to take you'd have to go back out to business without the um maintenance. >> Yeah. You can't take that out without rebidding it. >> Yeah. The way it was done,

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>> we already went out twice to bid. >> Yeah. So if I believe if >> we just have to go with this that no other option >> we had three other biders and >> yeah the other the other option is is you basically would kill the that bid you have to go back out to bid.

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>> Okay earlier so we could I mean if it's a go there's nothing we can do about it then. >> Am I right? >> Yeah. just on process and procedure. The question was can we get information

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before it gets to this point in future bids there may for example there's a discussion on something that DPW is interested in buying right for the top of the cars and everything that's a

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discussion item and it's it should be in my opinion a discussion not here it is and let's go for it because we really don't know much about it and the person that wants it might be able to use it here. This these are legitimate questions.

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We've had some questions on uh maintenance in the past when the elevator situation came up and it was a $75,000 payment or whatever and then the answer was very expensive to fix >> an elevator and we didn't have a maintenance agreement but if we did it

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would just involve the company to come out and then time and materials after that. So that maintenance agreement was more of a response agreement than not covering the cost of doing the work. There are different types of maintenance agreements. So uh

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>> So if you're asking to look at every bid before we go out to bid, is that what you're asking? >> Not every bid. I guess it would be a uh if it's brought up or uh >> Yeah, we should know in advance because we don't have an opportunity. You're

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asking us to vote on it, but we This is the first I've heard of, you know, specifics, pricing >> when our QPA puts bids out. >> No, I get the process. >> Time frame. I know. If you want to look

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at certain bids, you have you have to let us know because there >> Yeah, but we didn't even know this existed yet. >> Well, you knew we were going out for bid >> eventually. No, >> we we we voted >> to reject all bids before. So at that point in time, we were told it was going

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out to bid again. >> I think it was two months ago. I think we voted to reject all bids. >> Yes. >> Y >> because I asked about I said I see we have to reject all bids for the AV project. Are we still moving forward with it? And at that point in time, I

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think the mayor said, yes, we are going out to bid again. It's not dead. It's just that they had all the bids that came in were fatal. >> Right. Well, we wouldn't have known. You're right. Checked, but we don't have any specific information about each one of

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the bids. >> If you asked for the the bid specs at that point, I would have sent them to you. Nobody Nobody asked for them. >> I guess I wasn't sure of the complete process, but now we can talk about it. >> We do the bids the same way all the

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time. If you want the bids >> Yeah, but I didn't know the process. I'm sorry. bid specs. I will send them to you. But what I'm saying is you can't wait from meeting to meeting to discuss all the bids because there's a process

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with our QPA. >> Yeah. But what about before it comes to us here? >> So that these are the bids and this these are the terms. So we could just look at it. That's all >> on the internet. >> Yes. >> On the website. They're public bids. >> I advertise. And you advertise them on

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the town's website, >> sir. >> Okay. So, that's where all the bids are on the town's website >> as they come in >> and through bid and so on. >> So, we'll have to just watch the website to see what bids are coming in. >> Well, you can't see them coming in because they're sealed bids.

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>> So, what happens is a a bid a bid goes out. There's specifications in the bid as to what's in it and and that's what the people respond to and they say, "Okay, I can do A for $5, whatever." And it goes down the

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line. They total that up. That's their number. Company A, B, and C does that. It goes back to the the the uh town, the QPA. They review it. They do a recommendation based upon either experience or based upon um some other

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criteria and then they do recommendations and usually that's what you see. um is a recommendation as you saw in this resolution what the bid was why they recommending the the administration is recommending

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v vendor A over vendor C or D based upon maybe some problems that they've had in the future or um some maybe some entity gave a better price. >> Okay, but how would I know all because this is the first I mean Bill had

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questions about it. We all have questions about it. How does >> No, you just asked you just asked about the bid. So, all the bids go out. >> It's a raw document that says this is what we're looking for. These are the specifications. If you're interested,

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please give us how much you would charge us and then they give that and then that's reviewed. >> And that's another big do a big document that if you go on the if you go on a um a bid, there's spaces and they put the

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numbers in. Um, do the do is that posted up there, the response or is just the bid? >> Just the bid. The bid the results can't be posted. >> The results can't be >> until after they're open. They are posted after they're open. I don't know if they're posted on our website, but they are. >> Yeah, I don't post them. a lot of

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municipalities do post the results on their >> So, I guess if you see a bid and you're interested in it, um once once they're opened and reviewed and the recommendation is given, um I I guess I would contact the um the administrator

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or maybe at one of the meetings when that specific resolution to approve a bid, you know, that information can be supplied with with the packet. >> Yeah, maybe that should be the process then. I >> so we would have had those details. I

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mean, we get our a few days before the meeting at least we could read the details. >> But the problem is is once we tell our QPA we're going out for bid for whatever and he draws up the specs, we have a certain amount of time to post it and

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allow people to respond to it. Once the response is up and done after that time and he opens that bid, we we can't change the specs unless you totally just deny it or like don't approve it at a

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meeting and then we have to rego out back out to bid on something. >> Okay. So, maybe give us the packet. Maybe we'll see something that's not right in it, but we'll know what we're voting on. And if something, you know, if it has to go out to bed, it's again, it does.

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>> You emailed me and asked me for it. I would have sent it to you. I, you know, that's why I give you your packet so early. >> Here's a possible here's a possible solution. >> Friday works over the weekend. >> I don't see every bid either. It depends

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on what bid it is. some bids um our engineer sends out, some our QPA sends out, you know, I >> So, Marcy, >> as much as I can. >> When I read this, the recommendation for this contract um of 107,000, that's the

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recommendation of the QPA to go with that bid over the other two >> when the bids come in. >> Yeah. Whichever bid is the lowest, most advantageous, and meets the bid criter, that's the one that wins the bid.

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>> Yeah. >> If the QPA sees something wrong with the bid that's was sent in, then that bid fails. >> Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. I'm just curious who makes that final determination because we vote on it, but the resolution was drawn up

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>> on um your expertise from your QPA. So the QPA makes the recommend. Yeah. >> Okay. And that that makes sense. But what I think Sandy is asking is when we get these bids in there, >> it's already complete when when

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>> All right, that's fine. >> This res the bid is done. >> Yes. But once when the QPA is making that determination of which one to go with, we don't see the bids that the QPA is making the determination on. Nope. He

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doesn't see them until the bid opening day. >> Yeah. >> At the time the bids can be open. >> And then he reviews it and then he comes back with a conclusion saying, "Okay, this this company is fatal. They didn't have everything. This company had everything but they were way over your

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budget." >> Yeah. >> And then but this company had everything. Had all the correct people, everything. And then the price. >> And we're just curious about the process. >> We have to trust our professional. And the other thing is is you have you have to go at the lowest.

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>> We don't want to I want to know what I'm voting on. So maybe >> what is the actual work being done >> when you do this? If you say, "Oh, they're going to vote tonight on this. Let me give them as much information." Not that we're going to vote it down, but we'll know what's going on and what it includes

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just so we're more informed. It's not to say yes, we want something, no, we'll pull it pull it, but to be educated on what we're voting. So when you see a resolution, >> all the bids that you know that are on, I'll I'll give them to you. That's not a

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problem. I never asked. >> All right. Well, I didn't know the process. Now I know. And that's how we can determine processes. >> So just when you see that, supply as much information as you can, so we're educated. Okay. >> Somebody from the public asked me about

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it. I shove my shoulders. I don't know. But oh, you voted on it. >> You just let me know, Sandy. I I will send it out to you. Like I said, you get your packets early if you want anything. Anything. >> Yeah. But what happens is it's over the weekend. Um

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so >> laptop home. I I >> don't want to bother you on a weekend. >> If I can do it, I'll do it. >> Okay. >> No problem. >> All right. Thank you. >> Question for Peter. >> We had the consent agenda. >> Yes.

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>> I did not pull out 26 246. have a separate 246. >> Yes. Motion. >> Yep. >> Oh, is that um >> device? >> Yeah, we wanted to talk about that. >> So, do a motion to reconsider resolution 26246.

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>> Okay. Motion to reconsider resolution 2624. >> One thing at a time 654 that was bid for the AD um Yes, that's in the courtroom. >> I'll make the motion.

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We have a second for 20 second. >> Motion approved. And we have roll call. Roll call. >> Council member Canino. >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> All right. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes.

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>> Council President Higgins. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Okay. make a resolution to for >> make resolution 26246. >> Have a separate discussion on that. Do we have a uh

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>> motion to rec? >> Second. >> First motion. >> All in favor? >> I I >> I'm sorry. Who made the motion? >> I'll motion to reconsider. >> Okay. Thank you. So 26246, Tina,

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and and I don't know how this happened, but it's kind of an answer to our last question. I received a an email from the department that was ordering this, which was in my opinion a great idea because wanted me to know what was what was in

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the resolution because it was important to that department. And and what resolution 246 is is a new product from Massachusetts and it's a device that sits on the top of a vehicle and then all the software reads the signs, reads

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the roads, reads the guard rails and maps your whole town as you drive around and it gives you the option of planning for future needs. You might have a pothole, you might have a fence down. So, it's a lot to it, right? And it's a company in Massachusetts that has has a

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patent on it. It's their product. And I believe the cost of the device on the roof is like $24,000 or so. And then there's a twoyear two year 13 $15,000 cost to it. So something like this is

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out of the ordinary should have discussion. It should probably have the department head here to explain why it was important to him and uh what it can do for the town. It's unique and the paperwork that was attached that's in

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our paperwork as well shows that uh they continue they will own it. If it breaks they give us one immediately to replace the hardware but it's theirs and we're actually signing their agreement. You know when they do business with us they sign ours. So, it went through our

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purchasing director, but it's a very unique thing that is different from everything else. It's not anything the town's ever done before. Could be significant. And uh, you know, I I forgot to pull it out because it I would like to just table that to get somebody

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here to tell us the real value and what it can do for us over time. might have a significant advantage of being able to plan for road development and fences and potholes and you name it or trees or overhanging uh lines could show all of

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that just by simply driving the car down the street and it captures all that information. Pretty cool. I It's something that's uh really nice. Like to know a little bit more about it. That's all. >> That's why I pulled it out. >> I would make a motion to table this. I'd

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like to see a little demonstration on it or look online. Yeah, maybe I can see a demo. >> Do we have a second? >> Second. >> I'll second it. >> Second. >> Roll call vote, please.

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>> Sorry, what was it for? To table. >> It was for tableabling that. >> Who made the motion? >> I did. >> Sandy did. Carl second. >> Council member Canino. This is the table right? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes.

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>> Council member Rudo. >> Yeah, I'll go along. >> I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. >> Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Introduction number nine. Introduction

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of ordinances. Ordinance 2617, an ordinance amending 50-9 fees and escos at a Vernon Township administrative code. May I have a motion to introduce ordinance >> 2617? >> Excuse me.

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>> Yes, sir. Before we introduce it, um, at a previous meeting, the the gazebo was the title or not, the name for the gazebo was changed to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Pavilion.

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>> Is it possible that we could change the title the uh the comment on this to that so we vote on it rather than have to make decisions later on? any that we did vote to name it the

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Vietnam veterans. >> Isn't this an ordinance for fees? >> Yeah, this is for >> fees and escros. >> So, does does it have anything to do with a gazebo? >> Well, yeah. It's that's the name of the facility. >> Yeah. So, maybe he went instead of use

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of community gazebo, he you might want the name of the gazebo spelled out. >> Yeah. Vietnam Veterans Memorial. Okay. >> This has nothing to do with the name. This is an ordinance for the police to use the gazebo. >> If you want to vote to change the name of the gazebo, that's

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>> We already did. >> We did. So, he's just saying replace it. >> Change the name that you named it different. That has nothing to do with this ordinance. This is for the fees to use gazebo. >> Why can't we change it now? Because it's only going to come back. Why don't we

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just do it one shot and get done be done with it? >> Have any this ordinance is can you vote on this first and then vote to change? >> But he's not he's not asking to change the name of the gazebo. What he's asking is a set of use of community gazebo have

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as use as a Vietnam veterans. That's what he's asking. >> That's he wants it referred to. >> Well, no, this is >> that's the name of it. No, let the title for this is inappropriate,

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okay? Because we changed that name, but it was just came out to community gazebo. We don't have a community gazebo. We have a Vietnam veterans memorial pavilion. I >> I understand I understand what you're saying. >> Yeah, it just wants to change the name there.

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>> That's it. from Kazebo to what the formal name is as it reads >> in the code and on the ordinance >> resolution to name the >> gazebo >> gazebo >> change the wording of this ordinance we

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just have to amend the the ordinance as introduced >> it would be administrative >> right >> right >> so you would just it would be a motion to amend uh the use of community gazo to the use of the Vietnam veterans Memorial Pavilion. >> Pavilion. >> Yeah.

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>> Um, just question. We don't currently charge people to use the gazebo. >> You don't haven't had a yet. >> Oh, dog. I'm sorry. >> I got If we didn't have this in place and if someone was not renting out the

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gazebo, then they would be able to go up and use it without paying for it. Right. So essentially what you're doing is is you're not allowing people to use it >> for like >> unless they pay for it. But but people can probably go up there and sit, but if they're going to have a party, >> but if you're going to have

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>> you're not going to an order where the recreation department eats keep order and you have two different venues that want to use it at the same time, this is going to keep order. And also if somebody's going to use it for

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>> a party or party or something. >> But that's where I get confused because if I take for instance I grew up by way onto state park. If you wanted to have a your birthday party down there, you would just go to the gazebo and have your >> Yeah. And but how do you enforce it?

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Because people can just walk up and go to the gazebo if they're not renting it. If someone wants >> more for like events. >> Yeah. So, or events >> like people will probably go there and have their lunch, maybe walk down there. >> I just feel like this would be >> calendar. I mean,

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>> and what what you don't want is you don't want big groups down there because then you're going to have >> I no I totally stand from having big groups down there. >> I I guess it would have to be the the people who enforce the ordinances with police and or uh employees.

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>> Yes. >> Lots of questions about this. I have a lot of questions also. I don't know if you want to discuss it now. >> Well, no, normally we don't. That's why I I wanted to do this before just to change to find out if we could change

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the name as the next this will be the introduction and then the the uh at the next meeting when we vote on it is when you would normally uh have may comment on it. >> I I just I don't understand how we would

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really enforce this. Well, it's the same thing when people want to use the park. Um, Michelle in recreation has a schedule >> and they go through her, they go through the recreation department. It's It just keeps order.

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>> I know. I just It seems kind of This idea I just think is a little bit I'd like to see it more fleshed out, more detailed before I vote on it. It's like $100 for residents, $200 for non-residents.

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You need to have someone enforcing that pretty thoroughly. And where do you draw the line between a family going there to have a barbecue and someone using it for an actual event that we could charge them? >> No, I I understand that, but how would

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you how would people understand when they have to apply and when they don't? It just >> That's our ordinance. I I I don't know. >> I know. I'm I'm more so just know I don't >> But Tina, I have a question about the liability.

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So I know like in the lake communities for their clubhouse, if somebody wants to rent it, they have to show up with their own insurance. >> So that's and that's the same thing. If somebody uses our um senior center, >> they have to have their own insurance.

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>> They what? They have to have their own insurance also if they use our senior center. >> So for the gazebo they'd have to And what about alcohol use and all and enforcing some of the stuff? That's where my >> alcohol use and no alcohol use at the

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park. >> But is somebody going to monitor it? Enforce it. I mean, we can make all the rules we want, but if they're not enforced, >> well, nobody's going to be standing guard for the party >> unless you want to adjust the um add money to the budget. You could hire

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full-time people. You could enforce you can enforce everything. You just need the money. Unfortunately, what what we do and most municipalities do the the police enforce ordinances, but it's usually >> based it's it's reactive instead of

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proactive. So, someone someone will be at the park and complain that there's a bunch of hooligans, if I can use that word, hooligans, you know, creating mayhem there. They'll call the police. The police will go down there. They'll say, "What are you doing?" They'll have barbecue pits in the pavilion. There's

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probably going to be scorch marks up on the top of it. The police will issue them a violation under this ordinance because they didn't get a permit. >> And unfortunately, that's how you do it. If you wanted someone down there all the time, you'd have to get hire someone and

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then that would be cost prohibitive. So, it's really a reactive >> pay for in with the fee. But anyway, my concern is the liability. That's all. If something happens, they're drinking, somebody gets hurt, something, anything. I'm just concerned about the liability.

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And that's part of why you you want this fee because when they have to pay the fee, usually there's a form that they fill out as what they can't do and they hold the the municipality harmless. Oh, a deposit. Get it back at the end. Maybe something like that.

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They have to leave a deposit. >> Well, they're paying to rent it, >> right? But you can pay to rent it, but also hold on to a deposit. And if they check out, it's clean, nothing's broken, they get their deposit back. >> They do that, too.

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>> I mean, that is a normal thing. I mean, you rent a Airbnb, anything, a you paying a deposit, but you get it back and then that's you'll make you more likely to follow the rules. Um,

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and >> irrespective of the gazebo world war, um, what are we naming it? I'm sorry, Pat. >> Pavilion. >> Pavilion. >> Usually you do both, >> right? The fee the fee would be for any administrative costs and the deposit

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would be given back as long as if the rules are that take out the garbage if they can't leave burning um >> no scorch on the top like you just told me. That will happen and hooligans and all of that. >> It could happen. >> Could happen. So maybe that's an idea.

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Just saying. You want do we have a motion to change the uh wording for on number three on 26-17 ordinance >> use of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Pavilion instead of saying use of

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community gazebo. I'll make that motion. I have a second. >> I'll second it. >> Wasn't pavilion though. It was Can you repeat it? Um Council Member Rudo, >> sorry. What is the name of the

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>> Vietnam Veterans Memorial Pavilion? >> Okay, thank you. >> That a roll call or uh it'll be a roll call. Roll call. >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes.

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>> Council member Sp. >> Yes. >> President Higgins. >> Yes. Motion carries. >> Okay. Now we'll go back to the actual ordinance itself. And do we have a motion to approve ordinance 26 17 >> introduce

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>> with the changes? >> So moved >> as an introduction. >> Yeah. Introduction ordinance is 2617. >> I'll make that motion. >> I moved it. Oh, >> sir. Second. >> Mr. Rudo. >> Roll call. Council >> member Canino.

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>> No. Council member Ols. >> Well, if we make some changes, I mean, we're still going to charge that, but if anybody want to change it to require a deposit or something like that, >> just for introduction. >> Yes. >> Well, >> make sure.

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>> All right. So, no. >> My vote is no. >> Council member Rudo, >> yes. >> Council member Sparta, >> yes. >> Council President Higgins, >> yes. Motion carries.

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>> Ordinance 2618, an ordinance amending chapter 99, vehicles and traffic of the Vernon Township Administrative Cove. This is for introduction. May I have a motion to introduce 26-8?

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So moved. Have a second. Second. Roll call. >> Member >> Canino. >> Yes. >> Yes. Member. >> Yes. >> Yes.

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>> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> The public's turn. Public comment. Please note public comments are limited to five minutes per person. Anyone wishing to speak, state their name for the record. >> Do we have a motion to open it to the

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public? Five minutes. moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I oppose. >> Open to public. Gary, state your name, please. >> My name is Christy Gary and I live in Vernon. I'm just uh speaking because I

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was going around talking to different people while I was uh getting people to sign my petition. I've been quite successful and I was listening to their voices. They're very unhappy with the taxes. They are unhappy with the new apartments that have been built

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and that are continuing to be built. They want to Vernon to rem remain rural and they don't like the appearance of these apartments either. They feel like they don't fit in into our rural community. And uh

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I just want to say too that after a petition went around and signed and was signed against a pilot program by thousands of Vernon citizens, the town's lawyer looked for a loophole and found one which negated the petition

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and silenced the voice of the people. If our elected officials cared about what was in the best interest of the people, they would have honored that petition. I'm speaking for voices of the people in town.

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This is just one of the reasons why we believe we want to change our present form of government. We want the town to be ruled in a fair, equitable way, which is always in the best interests of the people and not just in the best

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interests of those who govern us. I am part of a group of concerned citizens and I am very proud that I and others are trying to write the wrongs of those in power in spite of criticism from those who are doing nothing to

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improve matters. Our main interest and goal is that the people of Vernon get treated fairly and equitably and that their voices are heard. We intend to get our petition put on the ballot and to give the citizens of

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Vernon a choice on how we will move forward in the future. We also believe that justice is on our side and with your help, citizens of Vernon, we will prevail. One final thought is we must

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stop dividing ourselves and we need to stand together in this town. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? Seeing no one coming forward. Have a motion to close the post. >> Moved. Second.

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>> All in favor? Drive >> council comments. >> Start with Carl at the end, work our way up. >> So, I am extremely concerned with a development that I heard about this past

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week in regards to the pickle ball court that we discussed at our last meeting. So, at our last meeting, the mayor mentioned um constructing a pickle ball court near the pump track that was built years ago, and he discussed paying for

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it with a bond, and it was vetted by the council, and it was pretty obvious that the council was not really comfortable with the idea and wanted to explore other things that could be done with that money. Um, I have an email in front

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of me that I requested that was sent to me from our mayor to the town engineer dated the 12th of um, I'm sorry, the 20 sorry, yeah, the 12th of July. Thank Corey, please proceed with the pickle

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ball courts possibility, a multi-use court as well as a resting shade area. Michelle can head this up with you on details or whatever she feels would be in Vernon's best interest. I would like to break ground as soon as possible.

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Then after a memorandum was sent, there's another email sent on the 22nd of um of July. Hi, I don't think the question was can the mayor just build it without council approval. The council will need to approve and award the bid

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or contract. The question, if I'm not mistaken, was can we use the money from the pump track or open space? Unless this request came from someone else else. If this can be cleaned up, removing the mayor from just building it without council approval would be more

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sufficient. Thanks. >> That's from the mayor. >> Wow. >> And that was sent to the BA. So, what are we doing? We as a council expressed that we're not comfortable with it when we discussed it during his

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mayor's comments. Then after that, he's directing the engineer to proceed with the pickle ball courts. And then after a memorandum was sent telling him, yes, you can use that bond money for the pickle ball courts, he follows up by

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saying the council will need to approve the bidder contract. So now we spent money on the engineer and I found out it's in the retainer to do the memorandum, but we're spending money on the pickle ball court already when the

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council expressed we're not comfortable and he acknowledges that we would have to approve the contract. What is this? This is a mess and we're spending money. That's what I'm really mad about is that we're spending money with the engineer

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on these pickle ball courts that we express we're not comfortable with. We haven't discussed other ways to use that bond money. We could pay down other bonds with it. We could look into other projects. There are million things that we could do if we can use that money for

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a pickle ball court. Why is he making that determination on his own and then expecting us to be dragged along with it? I'm really mad about that. And this is a recurring pattern. It's the same thing that happened with the trash compactor. It's

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kind of the same thing that happened with Burger Road. He's spending money that we technically have a say over whether or not he can spend. We have to do something to prevent this from happening over and over and over again.

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There are options that we can explore. Voting on purchase orders, voting on the bills list. There are so many things that we could do to prevent him from continuing to do this because it's unacceptable. We did not want that money being spent

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on that project. We would have to vote to approve the contract and he's already spending money on it. That's not okay. Very annoyed by it. >> Mr. Azuro,

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I have no comment. >> Um, well, I'm in agreement with Carl. I mean, this is how we go through the money. You say you got to control the money. Our job is the money. A lot of things we want to change, do, oh, well, you can't do it. That's the

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mayor's job. Well, the money is our job. So, we really have to be conscientious of how that money is going to be spent. And Carl's 100% right. He's spending money on doing a title search on somebody else's property. He's spending

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money on this pickle ball that, you know, it might no one might vote for it to go through. And there's been other instances. So, we really need to re in the spending. And that's one way to do it.

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Not spend all this money and then it comes to vote. No. So you something has to be done about that. It's taxpayers money and it's being dwindled away. Though I do agree with Carl and I would think most of you guys would probably

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agree with the same thing. Um but then on a different note, I think we um I'm throwing this out there. You may all say, "No, this is a bad idea." But I think at every meeting going forward, we should take just a few minutes out to

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discuss what we're going to do to try to save money, reduce spending so we don't have a big tax hike come budget time. We talk about the budget only during budget time. We need to start preparing for that next budget.

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And I think as a group, we should open it up for discussion just a few minutes at every council meeting. Maybe Patty's come up with something. Maybe Tina's come up with a money-saving idea and it needs to be discussed. So, we're not just doing it a few days before the

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budget's due. We're working now to reduce the budget for 2027. That's just a thought. >> Good point. >> So, maybe chew on that and see what we can do with that. subcommittee council president. You can get to your council

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the creative subcommittee and then bring those savings ideas that >> yeah I know Patty as a new CFO announced to all of us that she's going to start her budget process in September you know her first time. So, the timing for that would be uh

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>> pretty. We should like looking at the car leases. There's a lot of things we can look at. >> Um and purchase orders is a great idea also. We should be doing that. >> Still, I don't go time, Sandy. >> No, no, I'm done.

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>> There's a lot of things I think we could do in adjusting the code, adjusting ways that we approve these purchases that would help prevent situations like this from coming again. I think doing a subcommittee would be a really good way to discuss those ideas and to make

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proposals as to what we can change because I mean I can think of three or four things off the top of my head that we could do to prevent situations like this from happening again. It it just makes me sick that like it's such a

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perversion of the way things are supposed to be done. We I remember you, Pat, Sandy, myself, we all were not comfortable with this idea and we wanted to explore other ideas and yet we're already spending money on

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this pickle ball court. I just feel like this is not something that we can let keep happening. It's like banging my head on a wall. >> Okay. So, do we have a motion to form a subcommittee? >> You just as the council president, you can just form it. You mean ask for

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volunteers and you can point that? >> Yeah, without voting on >> I would like to be on it at that. >> Yeah, you would. Sandy interested >> possibly. Possibly. >> Okay, >> Brad, any interest? >> I know some people that would be interested in joining.

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>> Well, it's the subcommittee is a subcommittee of the council, so you can't have it's only open to the five of you. >> Oh, okay. All right. Let me think about it. Okay. >> You know, I'll talk whether I'm on a committee or not >> about it.

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>> Think about it. >> Okay. Good. >> Okay. And your comments or is over to Brad. >> Um, kind of building on what Sandy said, too. I I think I think when Patty was

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hired, I could be mistaken. It might have been when Dell was here. I did ask if we could kind of get a year to date on the budget so that way we knew where we were going forward and also as we get close to the end of the year as to what's encumbered. A lot of times you encumber the health and benefits and

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stuff like that at a quarter and so on and so forth. That way at least we can have some sort of idea where we're at with um surplus and what we're looking at for the following year. So uh we are twothirds of the way through the year

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already. you know, we haven't had any type of update as to where we're at. Granted, we've only had a budget for >> three months, >> four months. Yeah. >> Is May, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um if there's some way we can kind of and you know, it's something I think we should be receiving

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um monthly uh as to where we're at and then that way if we see anything that's glaring, we can bring it up during a meeting and discuss it at that point. Then, >> are you talking about the admins report? There's admin's report that shows the

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line items and then what's been encumbered and what's left. >> Yeah, >> something like that. >> Yeah. >> So, Tina, like know the admins report. That's probably the easiest way to do it. Most definitely. >> And that would give us an idea too as to what what line items we have potential

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under budget in and what potential line items are under or have been underfunded where transfers are going to happen >> because we're getting actually to the time of year where we're going to start seeing a lot of transfers. And it's nice to know ahead of time where they potentially could be coming from and

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where they're going to. >> Okay. I'll talk to her tomorrow. She was out today. >> Okay. Thank you. Anything else, Bren? Okay. >> I can't believe >> one to address Gary on the petition. I

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was in favor of the petition to to go forward and sign it until until it became a still a nonpartisan form of government. And as I'm full belief that the right way to do it is have the council run the town on elected mayor

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with the way it is. However, a nonpartisan just favors a few people. It doesn't favor the majority. This is a majority town and one of the uh one of the two political parties. there should be uh primaries this in June and it's a

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way to do it. It's the way it's done in the county and there's no reason it shouldn't be done here. So that's my that's why I didn't sign it and I hope there's not enough petitioners and I hope there's a petition next year to turn it over but make it a partisan form of government.

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>> Secondly, the uh lot of lot of discussion taking place on what's going to be developed in town, what plans there are. It's been on Facebook and all the buildings that are going to go up along Main Street. Well, there's a there's a lot of panic and a lot of

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conjecture because the company that bought that land also put up a couple of buildings or is putting up one and has put up another behind us. They're not renting them out in any fashion that probably making them very happy. There's a lot of risk and uh they're finding out

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what type of town Vernon is, whether they're interested in renting uh for $3,000 a month a one and a halfbedroom apartment or onebedroom with a den and it doesn't seem to be going very well. So plans change. No panic. It can be

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commercial properties as well as residential. Nothing's been brought to the land use board that's been approved. So there's nothing to panic about. And let's see where uh let's see where we go with this. Let's And next is uh

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pickle ball. Our attorney made a ruling on the pickle ball on the amount of money that could be spent from the funds that are available very clear on his decision and uh it it really limits the amount of money that could be spent even

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if we wanted to spend it. So, I can say pretty clearly that I'll never vote for the pickle ball court there because it'll be one pickle and no ball because that's how much money will be left. It's really just 30% of the money is available and uh but to the town, to

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everybody in town, there is money available. We can pay off a bond with it. We can use some of it for recreation. So, we're all ears. If there are other ideas, please, you know, submit your ideas, call in, email, send us an email, give

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us some there's opportunity that we might be able to do some things. There's a law laundry list of different uh things that can be done for the benefit of the town at different locations as well. >> And the last comment is last week there was a board of education meeting and it

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was supposed to be on Thursday at Lounsbury, then it was changed to Glenn Meadow. It was probably the biggest vote that could have been taken ever in Vernon. >> And uh I think eight people were there. Mr. Cino was there. I was there. Sandy

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was there. And two of us spoke about the subject. And the subject was to indebt the taxpayers of Vernon for a bond of $75 million plus interest which totaled $102 million to be repaid over 20 years.

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And my calculations are that the tax burden on the average home in Vernon is $500 and some dollars between five and $550. Multiply 550 times 20 years and you'll come up to around $13,000.

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Biggest tax increase that would ever be uh shown to the public on the on the average tax and nobody showed up. And the the discussion on the board of ed was we have two ways of doing this. three ways. One, just don't do it and

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vote it down. The second was do a referendum and allow the town's people to vote. And they knew it would fail. So the third was to take advantage of a new law that was put in before Governor Murphy left which allows them in this

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town to use a contract in one of the Abbott district towns like Pay Patterson Cland County towns that signed up for this special program called the CIA program construction critical infrastructure agency from the state and

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borrow the money from the state. So, in fact, the town would be taking all of our schools, leasing them to the state, and then get them back whenever we pay off this 20-year debt. And uh and the town that we use to use their contract,

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they get a percentage as well. So, if it's a 4% bond, we'll probably paying 5% because the town that has a contract is going to make some money. Could be the worst thing to ever happen. And people are here, they're concerned, they listen to taxes. nothing bigger than this. And

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it was to be used for capital improvements. Well, you can't you could build a high school for $70 million. And they're looking to replace roofs, boilers, you name it. They don't even have the list of what they want to spend it on. They just want the money to say

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we can do it. And uh it's time for the residents of the town to speak up now because this vote was taken and passed and the monies will could conceivably start flowing to them next April. And if that happens, your taxes are going to go

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up on average over $500 just from that one vote, plus the normal increases. So time to get involved. And uh I'm personally looking into any way I can stop it, but it's not our vote, it's their vote. And that's the

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end of my comments. Thank you. >> May I have a motion to adjourn the meeting? >> Some moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I meeting have a good one. Thank you.