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Board of Trustees of the Pontiac School District. Thank you for coming this evening. Madam Secretary Roca. Trustee Bowman. Present. Trustee Kraft. Present. Trustee David Smith. Present. I'm present. Trustee Gross. Present. Trustee Miller. And Trustee Terry. Present. Thank you. You have a call. Thank you Madam Secretary. Can we all arise please for the And to the Republic of which it stands, all nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all. I like to make an adjustment to the agenda if I may. The actual minutes were not placed into the packet on Thursday. So, I might make a recommendation, a motion that we remove the minutes from this meeting to approve and add them on to our board governance meeting on August the 10th and I have a motion. Some more. Support. Move by Secretary Dooley, support by Trustee Bowman.

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Question concerns or comments. Hearing now, Rocco. Yes. Trustee Davis? Yes. Trustee Dooley, I'm supporting yes. Trustee Gross? Yes. Trustee Miller? Trustee Terry. Yes. And Trustee Bowman. Yes. Six zero. Thank you Madam Secretary. Recognition of there's no awards or of recognition at this time. And hopefully do so because the superintendent is not going to return until August 10th. And hopefully you'll be here for the board governance meeting. With that

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ignition of elected officials CNN in the audience, I wanted to say to the board of trustees, thank you for your phone calls and your suggestions when I spoke with you about having this meeting this evening. I think it's very important that we are here for the business of the district and although the superintendent is not here, as it was stated, and I'm going to restate, this is a meeting of the board of trustees. So I appreciate all of you for being a part of this and being here, and I know this is what

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they call summer vacation season but the board is always working. So, I want to say thank you for being here this evening and I do want to recognize that former board president, Gil Garrett is here in the audience. Thank you, sir for your attendance. Thank you. With that, now that it agenda has changed, we're now moving down to regular working agenda, board concerns. I had the opportunity to speak with each of you and talk about some of the issues and

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concerns that you have that you would to discuss here tonight's meeting. I was trustee Miller was here. Uh she also had some important issues that she also wanted to discuss. She is here. Thank you. Thank you, Trusty Miller for arrival. So, as you get yourself prepared, before we go into more concerns, I wanted to say thank you to the administration members who are here and those who are asked to be invited. Doctor Jefferson, miss

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Dixon, Mister B and T as well as Catherine is here and mister Holcomb. Thank you for your attendance this evening. I know superintendent is not here but I appreciate you making yourselves a part of this meeting this evening. I think it's very important because there could be some questions that may come your way and I ask that you make yourselves available while you're here to do so. Good evening, Trustee Miller. Good evening. Thank you for your attention. Good evening, Trustees. Thank you for your attendance. We're now down to

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board concerns. The minutes was removed because they were not put into the book packet and give everyone the opportunity to read them and we'll revisit that at our board of governors on August the tenth. When I say board concerns, I know each of you have some concerns or things that you want to discuss. But I created some concerns that I wanted us to discuss which I think is on your individual agenda And first I want to deal with the with the with the elephant in the room. And that the first concern that

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I have is the situation with our superintendent. And I guess I'll start it off over Well, I know Trusty Miller has concerns. You had concerns. My concern was we have to do business as a board. We can't stop doing business and we only have one employee, technically on paper and that one employee shouldn't have the autonomy to to tell us we can't have a meeting or reschedule a meeting based off public opinion and based off. We have to do the business for the district and we have to make sure our

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community understands that we're being fully transparent. So, the missing mean do to the state of where the district is right now. I think that is us failing as board members to say we really do need to take a look in the deep diving. How much work we have to do to establish a real census of progress around here. We have to set expectations high and that starts with our one employee and I'm very disappointed that we had to go through the channels to have this meeting because if not, we wouldn't

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have had it. Um if things were otherwise but I think this is a good example or a good opportunity for us as a board to set expectations and set standard for things not to go below this and they always put ourselves in a position to where we don't have these issues. Trust the bill. Oh, no, no, no. Okay, there. This is, this is more concerns. We're going to deep dive into it. Alright. Okay. We need to discuss. Okay, let I'm going to say on on topic with our one employee and

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It continues to baffle me how we have we are responsible for one person in a school district but yet instill Imma say I continuously have to hear things through social media. Um as far as our superintendent, as a woman, she has a right to to seek other opportunities and that's from one woman to another. I encourage you. If you want to further yourself in your in your career. Well, as a trustee, I have to answer to my boss which is the people in the community that put us in

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the seat and we are her boss. So, doing business like Trusty Bona said we have what what is our succession plan? How many times are we going to be bombarded and blindsided with an interview before we say, okay, superintendent, you made it blatantly obvious that you don't want to be here. So, when are this, when is this board going to make the next moves to get someone here who wants to be here? That should be the priority. It's not up for

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negotiation. Our superintendent did not have a conversation with his boards with with this trustee, I will say. But yet and still, how many times we going to let it be slapped in our face that, hey, guys, I'm, I don't want to be here. What is an update on what needs to be done? Where we at with the reimagined? Where we at with things that for our student staff and our community, our teachers, if our it may, it could be assumed that our superintendent is

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busy preparing for interviews but how much preparation has been put into this district? That's my concern. But as a woman, encourage her. Do whatever she need to do. But as a trustee, we gotta move on with business for the best of this district, which is, you don't want to be here? You've shown us that. I don't care what you say. You've shown us that. And that's okay. Pee pee. So, Imma Imma chime in real quick. Um and I know we all kind of speaking as a individual and not necessarily a board as a whole and I do want to note that for the record, the

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superintendent is usually not allowed or should I say is not allowed to cancel that meeting. The discussions that went on was pretty much based off the board president. So, she really had nothing to do with that even though she's on vacation. If there's a standing meeting, then, it's to the board president to make that decision. So, that does not fall back on the superintendent and the superintendent does not have that authority to cancel our board scheduled meetings. Um second, I also want to note that in regards to

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information that might be received out there in the media and everything as well. I'm in agreement that yes, everyone has their right to go out and look for new employment, right? And we've had our experiences pretty much the last year or two, I want to say, with a lot of back and forth, with individual board members, with boards as a whole, and I know no individual is perfect, right? But if you don't feel that security and you

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don't have that, I guess you want to say, support from your own AKA board, which is a, a team of seven, okay? And, and we're not giving that support, or that feeling that we want you to be here, and we, we trust you and, and we want you to continue to push forward with this district, then my own self, I would have an issue with that. Just with my own employment. You know, if I'm feeling uncomfortable there and there's any kind of reasons or any kind of pushback, negativity,

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blame whatever the case may be with all of that negativity, you almost gotta start asking yourself, do they really want me here? And I've never heard that come out of my superintendent mouth that she does not want to be here, and I know there's lots of opportunities out there. I just want to be clear that there's a lot going on right now within the state of Michigan and pretty much across this country with superintendents. There's a shortage. Okay, there's a shortage. So we need to keep that in mind as well.

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We we have a superintendent here. Her reviews have been good. There's been some other issues I guess you want to say beside the work related issues that I don't feel should necessarily hold us or keep us from having those discussions in regards to moving forward or keeping the superintendent in position. But at this point there's no guarantee and there's no certainty from this board. That she to be here. Or we want her to be here. I know I'm only

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speaking for myself. But as a team in dealing with the board and knowing how the board has been moving and operating. We've caused a lot of employees or a lot of staff to not really want to be here. They're they're uncomfortable. Whatever the case may be. It's uneasy. It's not a good work environment. So when when people are out looking for new jobs? No. They don't have to tell us if they're out looking for a new job. Now, that would be a courtesy thing

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but there's nowhere in the contract saying that you have to do that. There there's nowhere. But if you have uncertainty and you have doubt on where your next career path is going to be, I'm not asking you to wait till the last day or the last few months and then decide if that's where you want to move or you get there and then all of a sudden, we decided that point that we want to go in a different direction. It makes that employee feel a little uncomfortable. So, I'm

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speaking just as myself, as my individual trustee, because I can't speak for the whole board, right? But from my understanding, with the reviews that Cheating had in the in the trials and tribulations, in the struggles, we've had pluses, and we have negatives. Okay, there's plenty of information out there regarding the reimagined. We we've been informed with a lot of that information with the reimagined, there's details out there, there's weekly minutes get put out for the board to read and get information and

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be updated on the reimagined program. So, for myself, that needs to be a a separate topic. If we decide as a board, if we going to continue with that employment with our current superintendent or not but I don't believe that necessarily for a topic of discussion here in the in the public meeting but it could be because I don't believe we specifically discussing AKA the contract. We're not. Okay? So, that's just my point of view. For one

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individual trustee, I have no issues with the current superintendent. And and I'm hoping we can continue to push forward with or without. And then also not just currently but we also need to keep in mind the next few steps, the next 6 months, the next year. We need to keep that in mind. We we've been through that phase already where we haven't had a a superintendent and we had to have interim superintendent. So, we need to keep that in mind. Also, if we decide to start this search process,

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who's going to fill in for the superintendent position? We need to keep that in mind as well. So, thank you. Yes, you do. Check it there, dude. Concern would be or having to address issues that I have no answer to. And the one would be our superintendent I I received information regarding her interviewing. And that's the third interview. That I've received information and we've talked about it. So I would have to differ with

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VP Terry in the event that's indicative that she's looking for employment and of course, everybody wants a job and you want to cover yourself So, we're we're in a catch twenty-2 here. She's seeking employment. That's her third interview. So, does she want to be here? And then we also know the contract, her contract is up at the end of this school year. So, we as a board, we do have to make a decision as to how we're going to proceed, what I

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would like happen, we we must have that candid conversation with our one employee but we also have to be proactive in setting ourself up to be in a position to seek nationwide. It's no no secret. I went on record when I was hired. By being voted in. I did not give her a vote of confidence. I I would have done it last year. So, for the record, the demonstration that she's presenting going to seek

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additional employment is very indicative that she's ready to leave. Thank you. Treasurer, David Smith. I myself as one trustee, I feel what Trustee Terry said is has some truth to it that she may not feel confident in us as some of us does not feel confident in her but what's what my concerns is that she has now

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put this reimagined in in the in the works and we we out here without some certain certainties like my issues with the busing system and and our our parents are already removing their children because they have no you know no real they're not getting any real understanding on where their children going to be placed and things like that. So, with that that information of her looking for

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other employment, it doesn't only make us feel that she has no confidence in us. It also makes our community feel the same way that they have no confidence in her and so, they will remove their their removing their children from our district. So, that's my concern Yeah. But I I understand feeling uncomfortable and in in a a employment. Um it's seven of us where we only have one or two

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supervisors or bosses you know that's that's over us. So I I I can understand that as well how she could feel uncomfortable and and not have confidence in us as well. Thank you. Trustee Crack. I'm feeling new again. Okay. But I do have some concerns that I actually think. And you know when you create a plan for something you supposed to do. That's a coach or anything. You're supposed to stay there and see the plan through.

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We have a plan that superintendent, I mean, she has the right to go interview where she wants to go and you know, you have that that god-given right to do that but the thing is, you're sending our school district through a change a a big change when you move into fifth graders to the middle school and all that and having nobody really thought about that but if I'm going to set a plan out, I'm going to at least be out there to see it and have

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confidence behind it and from what I'm thinking about right now, I think that plan need to be distant until we find out what she is actually going to, what she's going to do. We gotta have a commitment from her before we go on with anybody's plan and then it'll be unfair for the new superintendent whoever we bring in. To have to go by this reimagined plan. It's something that he didn't have that he had nothing to do with. So, if we bring Let them have their own creative ideas. And it's no blow.

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It's nothing against her. But that's just like setting somebody out in a boat. And saying you going to travel to seas around the world. And anything. And I got the map to it. But I'm not getting on the boat with you. And it's just as simple as that analogy right there. When you're seeking two, three, four interviews, you're not comfortable. Whether it's the board or wherever it is and your heart is not there. Said it back then. I want a Pontiac woman here. I want somebody

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to bleed Pontiac. I don't want nobody that's got the searching nowhere else. When he said he wanted a Michigan man, when you out there looking, your heart gotta be here with these children. Then that's me right there. And I just, that's my personal that's my personal view on it. I don't know logistically how it can happen but I really think we need to dump that reimagined plan right now. Listen, I I I want to start off by saying to this diocese and to the community

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and those who are watching. First and foremost, this is not a discussion to discredit the superintendent because she's not here. That's not the intent. It's not what we're doing. But we all are aware that the information is now in the community. The information is now in the district. That there's been several interviews. Both myself and Trustee Terry at our superintendent discussion that we have on Wednesdays About three weeks ago, we

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had this conversation with the superintendent and the the beacon attest to this and we talked about not the fact that she has the right to be able to go out and seek something that will better herself or her family if she chooses to do so. But we ask her as a courtesy to just let us know. If anything, let myself and VP know and we can inform the board. And then shockingly, couple of days ago, received a text message from Trustee Dooley indicating that another

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interview was being taken place. I've also received information from the community Outside of the community that another interview was being taken place. Listen. The answer is to not do any or say anything. To not address this. Silence is not the answer. This is why I ask that we start off with the discussion on where we are with this. But trustees understand there is a proper process. On how this situation needs to be taken care of and dealt with.

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Because listen. We have to ensure that everyone in the district especially our children, are being taken care of. We have a superintendent who has made it clear to us through her actions That is she's seeking to do something else. But for us to sit here and not do anything at all. Seeing that this is taking place. Then that's an injustice on what we're supposed to do in this district. Secretary I mean VP Terry I I hear what you're saying.

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And I understand what you're saying. However. About two weeks ago. Or maybe a little longer. We did show that had some trust in superintendent by by unanimously accepting her evaluation as a board. We have shown in the past that we trust and believe in what she's doing. But now she has chosen a path to do what she feels is best for her and in her interest. Again, as a board, if we choose not to do anything, that will be a problem within this

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district. Again, there's a process. I'm not asking that we discussed that we're going to terminate the superintendent. We're going to do this and that's not, that's not the process. I've had conversation with the Michigan Association and School Board with the attorneys there. To create a timeline on what we need to do to ensure that we're prepared if the decision is for her to leave at that time or if the decision is for us to say, we're moving forward with someone else. There's an

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appropriate timeline that we have to follow and we will do so. Because we just can't do anything, not do anything. We have to. We owe it to this to this district. We owe it to the staff and administration. And most of all we owe it to the community. And we owe it to the children. That's what we're here for. To ensure that we're doing what's proper for this district. And we have to sometime make our tough decisions. We have to. It's not about who we like, who we

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dislike. This board is about the business of this district. And what we need to do. But from this point forward, we have to discuss and we will on the process on how we're going to get this situation rectified, taken care of, and move forward. That's what this is about. This is why I ask that we come in here and we discuss some of the concerns that we have. Because this is huge. It's in the community. It's out there. And once again, it happened to where none

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of us were informed. And the community knew it first before we did. And I respectively ask that they're not happening again. We talked about this at the organizational meeting that we want no more surprises. And it happens over and over and over again. So, we have to make some hard decisions some tough decisions, Some decisions that some people aren't going to like, some may but that's okay. But we have to be about the business of this district and moving forward. Again, I don't want

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well, people going to say what they want to say. People going to leave here and say, hey, the boy was talking about Doctor Leverette. He wasn't even there. She hadn't even said no. Your actions speak louder than your words. What you do tells us a lot more than what you say you're going to do or what you're doing. That's important, Bord. That's extremely important. So, I have a proper appropriate timeline on how we need to look at things and what we need to do to move forward and we'll discuss that in a

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closed session. And they will come back. And we'll provide the information to the community and to the district on the decisions that we're making. But we're going to do it proper. Point of clarity. Uh I do not. Yes, we can. I I point of. Yes, we can. Point of clarity. Uh I, to my understanding, unless we are discussing contract or work performance that is not going in

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there to discuss the future of the district as it relates to superintendent. It's not. Okay. So, tell me, I'm just, tell, am I, am I mistaken? No, you're, no, you're correct. So, to mine, so point of clarity, to my understanding, the the laws that dictate how we can go into closed session. To my understanding, that is not a reason to meet in a closed session and that is that is a topic that can be discussed openly. Cuz we're not talking about work performance. That's to my understanding according to OMA law. Right. In a in a public setting

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whether it's governance, a regularly scheduled meeting but to my understanding, that does not meet the qualifications to go into closed session. I agree and and we'll discuss the contracting coalition. So, point and clarity. We we're talking two different things. So, the contract separately will be discussed in close session but the other part of that, we can't mix the two. We're not. Okay. So, the part of what we're going to do and how we're going to do with the timeline, that does not meet the qualifications.

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And exactly. Okay. I just want to make sure. I don't understand. Okay We will. Yes. We will. But we will ensure that the information is shared to the community, to the district. Once we reach that, okay? Any other concerns as it pertains to the superintendent? Chelsea Mill. Okay. So, a few of the trustees mentioned lack of comfort. I don't know what job that you can go to and one, these are all factual

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things. Not not respond to your to your superiors. Um not report out in a timely fashion as dictated by policy. And final and speaking for me as an individual and I've said this before openly. I'm not going to tiptoe around a job that I was elected to do because certain employees do not like accountability and do not let's do not accept standards and expectations from this board. Every

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email I send is quoting a policy. No personal feelings attached. Correct. But I'm intimidating, harassing, and causing a hostile work environment. Because I'm setting standards and expectations for my one employee. So who's who so who's making who uncomfortable? Who's making who uncomfortable when it is our job As outlined in federal state, MDE, and our policies what we we what we are responsible to do. What we are we are

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tasked with that duty. Hell or hot water. That's what we supposed to do. It's not my problem that that our superintendent doesn't respond favorably favorably to us. Because I'm going to respond in a favorable manner to my bosses to this community. I'm going to be very transparent as I have been since I've gotten here. And if I don't have the information because the superintendent is not providing it. In which don't know what other

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employment opportunity you can have to where you could just some people can downright just not do what they're supposed to do. But nevertheless this is all open. This is not talking about work performance. These are all topics that we've discussed in open. That's great. So uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable. Cuz I can't ask for something as indicated by policy without being labeled as harassing and intimidating. And causing a hostile work environment. Let's talk the fast. The fact is, is that our

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superintendent, it appears as if our superintendent does not want to be here. How many times we going to let her throw that in our face and show us before we say, okay, we accept that. We wish you the best. If that's what you want. My follow-up questions are I understand that some some trustees have said that we need to leave the decision to let her know let for her to let us know if she don't want to be here. If she get a job tomorrow, she's out. So why we leaving anything to the

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superintendent who that has no desire to be here as indicated by her actions. My other thing is is that if we sit here with our our hands between our legs, what is the succession plan? Is she left here to where she interviewed tomorrow and get that job? What is this board do. While we sitting waiting on her to tell us if she want to be here or not. What's the succession plan? Who's in charge? Matter of fact, she's on vacation. Show me the Email that went out that said. Superintendent is on vacation. Uh please refer to this

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person, that person, that person in in a row in my absence. Show me the Email that went out because I didn't even know she was on vacation. What job can you work? And your supervisors, whether it's all seven of us or you. As a president. Not know where our superintendent is. How long she's going to be gone? Let's move forward. When is convocation? Give me the exact thing. Oh oh so there is a an actual date? No. That's part of the list that we're going to talk about. I'm I'm

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going to do it. Alright I I digress. Okay, I'm doing. But it's it's things like that that are within the next few weeks that just fell about the wayside. I I agree. That yeah. I have that as part of the concerns. Y'all, just a minute. Yo, sir. Oh, yes, I am. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, just to piggyback off of what Trustee Miller said, the reality of it is, we talked about this about a couple weeks ago when we had the Fraser Vote on something that would have potentially caused people not to get paid or potentially cause the catastrophe in the financial part of

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our district. And we're sitting here in a situation where exactly what she said could potentially be our future if she quit today or tomorrow. We have no who I no idea who's in charge. Or who's running the show to do. So, I think for us as a board, it's again, it goes back to that old saying, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is a case of insanity and we can't be insane right now to think that we can keep doing the same thing that's been done in previous years or prior to

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getting to this point and get a different result. So, whatever the chain of command is, whatever the expectations is, I think now is where we set the standard and we move from point whether people feel that it's personal or whether they feel that she's under attack. For me as a new board member, that has nothing to do with business. Whatsoever. I could care less. So, at this point, I think most of our discussion and conversation should be based around what expectations is the border we

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going to set. What is our contingency plan? What is our plan for a backup for A, B, C, and D based off of the forward progression of this district and the security for our community and our students and I digress. Thank you and Listen. One of the statements that I made when I was voting to this position that no board member would believe this this diocese or come to this diocese without having questions answered. First part of the process that I I think that is important is once she's

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here we can direct some specific questions to her as it pertains to her employment here in the district. Now, be prepared to hear I'm committed. I'm here. But again, what I said earlier, but your actions dictate something different. I don't know. That I I don't know. What she's going to say. But that should be the first order of business to to to discuss with her. What's going on and why? We've had the discussion. Prior, like I stated.

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If there is anything else out there that you're interviewing for, as a courtesy If you don't let the entire board know, let the president and or the vice president know what your intentions are and we can share that information with the board. And I specifically ask that there be no more surprises. But it's obvious that those statements were were not adhered to. Because I had to surprisingly find out through an

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email, text message, and a call that that took place. So that's my concern. It was just courtesy. I'm not saying it was disrespect but that's the appearance. That's all I'm saying. Again, I don't want to bad mouth the superintendent but again, we have to be about the business of this district. I understand. Trustees, some trustees like the job she's doing, what she's doing, how she's doing,

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and what she's doing. That's fine. But as an individual board trustee and not the president, I have some concerns. Based on what I'm seeing Fifth grade move. Fifth grade move. Oh, you had another. Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no, I, I, let me, let me. Go ahead. Let me narrate, narrate first where we going with this. I heard what you guys have said. I've I've heard your conversations. Justin Dude, I'm Secretary Dooley and Craft. I I've heard you guys concerns as it

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pertains to the to the actual move, the reimagine but most of all, the importance of the fifth grade move. That's a huge concern. So, because of that, I invited miss Tanya Dixon who is the director of student services. Mister Marvin Beasley, who's the head of facilities, and mister Bill Holcomb. They would come forward I invited them to this meeting because they were an integral part or they have knowledge or if not all some have knowledge as it pertains to this

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move because there are some concerns. And the reason that I asked him here today is that to be able to answer some questions that we may have. Is the scenario? One, we know All fifth graders from every elementary. From Rogers Harrington, Alcott, Walt Whitman is being asked to be placed over in middle school. That's number one, correct? Correct. And Owen. And Owen. And Owen. I forgot. Yes. And

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Owen. Now, here is the current makeup of where we are with the move. Correct me if I'm wrong or if I missed something. Rogers, first through four is going to Herrington. Correct. Part of Owen first through four is going to Elcot. Correct. First through four will stay at Whitman but fifth grade will move to the middle school from Walt Whitman. K through four. K through four. K through four. At at Walt Whitman.

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Walt Whitman. And all of the elementaries. At at all. So noone from Walt Whitman is going anywhere else but the middle school and that's the fifth grade. Fifth grade. Yeah. Now. Rogers is being renovated Alcott Let me let me get this right. Not all of Owen's kids because of capacity from first through K through four. Not all of Owen's kids can fit at Alcot. Where are those staggered numbers from first through four or the fourth

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grade? Where are they going? So I believe it's about 70 students that will go to from Owen to Alcott. To Alcott. Or to Rogers. But yes it's been divided. Our transportation coordinator looked at. So Rogers once Rogers is complete. Yes. But where are they going now? Because Rodgers is being renovated. They will be with them at Harrington. So they gotta go to Harrington. Uh huh. Is that for? Am I saying that right? Say it again. Yeah. Uh huh. Right. Uh huh. So, Harrington? Yeah, because. So, Harrington is taking on. Being renovated. Right, because Rogers is

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being renovated. So, Terrence is taking over a huge load. Here's my question. If the decision is made by this board that we not move the fifth graders. Walt Whitman returns to Walt Whitman and we know we don't have enough room for Alcots, kids, fifth graders to return to Alcot because there's not enough room to hold all of the Rogers kids from fourth grade. And I mean, Owen where the Owen fifth graders going to go? Because it appears to be no more room because

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Rodgers is being renovated. Correct. You have all of the buildings now, excuse me, are at capacity with the moves that have taken place. Named abilities. Alcott, Walt Whitman. All elementaries which is all all of the elementaries are at capacity. That's without, that's without fifth grade. Fifth graders. If you All buildings are at capacity right now. Excluding fifth graders. Correct.

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If you chose to move fifth graders back into those buildings where they originally came from, there's additional shuffling that would have to take place. So, special education classrooms that that got spread throughout the district. Those would have to be readjusted and just as as a a point to you, all of those moves have already taken place. We done of the moves for the

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reimagination for this summer were completed in July. So, we will also incur cost moving costs associated with with shuffling that back. And a a pretty short timeline because teachers are coming back in on just about three weeks. So that needs to weigh in. Mm hmm. Trustee Craft was first. So realistically, it can happen. But if you told us that it had to happen, we would make it happen. I'm just saying realistically, it can happen. It's

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your choice. Yes. Nothing's impossible. It's it's a lot of shuffling that's going to happen. It's a lot of shuffling and moving. Right. We're going to have to figure out there there's going to be some decisions that are going to have to be made on where students go because we have one entire building that's offline. Right. So Rogers Elementary is offline for construction. So, we we we're limited as to where we can move students and that was the issue from the get-go of where these students

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need to be transported to. Okay. Well, Nothing's impossible. Right, but see, my my concern with that is that you you're dealing with the middle school is actually going to high school because they're going to go four years. Fifth, sixth, and eighth and then they turn around and go to high school. What I'm trying to say is four-year schools. Hm? Then, college, another 4 years, okay? In the same spot. I happen to be a part of the change in nineteen seventy-five when Wilson

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School was closed and we were the first sixth graders to go to Madison At that time. And at that time as a young kid experiences stuff I was really around kids that were older than me. And they were doing other stuff. We didn't have the the the necessary things as a elementary would have at in middle school. A lot of stuff was going on at at Emerson and all the other schools there and stuff. We had to go play even in

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sports. We had to play in elementary. All our activities was there. And you know it's just a I just feel like it's just too much of a a age difference. Um between you know the fifth graders over at the middle school. And I just think the maturity level is I think that would be I think detrimental to our our to our students. And I think we need to really work on this plan to return our fifth graders back to elementary. because first of all,

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we're out in compliance if they don't have a playground for one thing and we don't need to start paying fines to the state for anything. So, that's just my personal. Well, you say we are the compliance because of what? No playground at the middle school. Is that? I don't know nothing about that. Yeah, that's a new. That's fine. That was not understanding. It was never understand about that. Yeah. So Who? So, you say, we won't be in compliance because we don't have a playground? I mean, they they supposed to have a playground. They're entitled to a playground but

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I don't think we're. Yeah, I don't know if that's a requirement but I. For recess. For recess? They're entitled. They're entitled to recess break. It doesn't say that it needs to be a playground. Right. It can be structured. Uh play within the genetic. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. On the outside. So, there it is right there. There it is right there. There, you know, by law, we doing this but then we we shortcutting the kids. No. I. What's your name? No, no, hear me on this. What we will do? This what we going to

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move forward with this but what we'll do is Trusty Miller as a chairperson of policy I'm asking that if you can gather that information into Virginia's whether it's a law policy that we have to but I think that they do have recess but I agree with you. We we we selling them short by not having. What I'm what what I'm what I'm wanting to board to hear and I'm going to trust the **** Are you done? Um I don't even think I'll come back. Okay, and one other thing, this is an uneducated guest right here and I

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just want you guys to tell me what you. What would we think about, you know, putting all the elementary kids inside of ITA and moving ITA to another school. Now, you going to I'm not I don't mean to laugh but I'mma be honest with you. So now, if you ask me questions like that because the thing is now, we can say as a team, we worked on all those scenarios. Uh huh. And that one of the scenarios that we did work on. So, I understand it's been worked on several times about what we want to do and how to

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help this district with what we're doing. You know what I mean? So, you saying that. I don't mean to laugh but I'm being, you know, we worked hard on that type of thing but again, it was other reasons why things like that didn't happen. So, I mean, you know, we we're here to do whatever you guys asked us to do and how we can do and tell you how to get it done. I just had to ask, asked. You gotta get, well, I don't mind what you said. WHRC was originally designed. All elements. As an elementary school. It was. It at all elementary. Yes, it was. It was. I went there. Well, you you just said

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something again. I I don't mind saying it for our team that work together that, yeah, we we talk heavily about that. Right, we did. So. Now, before I go to Trusty Bowman then Secretary Dooley, I I I oh. Okay. I want the reason I asked them here is that I want them to tell you where we are, what we are in a position to do. Although they say they do whatever we want them to do but I need the board to understand this. I heard

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you when you say you want to discuss this. I I heard you. That's why I want to bring this back. But understand this. Two schools now. Elementary schools are not being used. Rogers, Owen Kennedy. Correct. Those two schools are done. But and it's going to be not until the end of the year. My recommendation would have been to look at this move after next year because Rodgers will be open. Because we all know and we understand because of the concerns with the

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Kennedy Owen building. It not being conducive to have children and staff in there. This board is aware of that. Correct? MR MR. Are we right? We agree with that. So then now there's two schools offline. There's a lot of elementary kids out there. If the move maneuvering is going to take place If the decision of this board is that we're not going to send the kids to fifth graders to the to the middle

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school. If we determine that, we make a motion and take a vote, right? We have to understand. There's three weeks left before school starts. Correct. So, that's why I asked them to come in because I heard your concerns. I heard you but I want us to understand too now. If it appears to be realistic, it can be done. Let's do it. Let's do it. But we have to take everything in account. All aspects of this. Okay? Yeah. So, parents have

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already been communicated with. So, that's. Meaning. Something that that we'll have to flip on on where their students are going. So, so, just, I mean, off the top of my head, the the quickest resolution that I could come up with. Point of clarity, real quick. Before you go down that path, I think that was more or less just a statement. Right. He, we're not, we're not trying to make any changes right now. No, no, no, I'm just saying. It's the decision. It's just the same. If the decision is to do so. So, we have to clear on it. Everything. Right. Yeah. So, so that's what I'm throwing out there.

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It's giving you an option. So, you could at Owen Kennedy building potentially make that an upper elementary. How? Fourth through fifth graders. And it's not usable. Could go there. How? It's going to cost money. I mean, that's that's not, yeah, it's not. Any of the, any of these discussions we're going to have are going to revolve around. Some is going to but some moves are going to cost more than others. Correct. Yup. But will that building be ready for the fall?

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No, with what? Can you on? Yeah, no. Right? It does. So, let's not, let's, let's, let's not look at Kennedy Owen because even if we went there, first of all, it's going to cost a certain amount of money. Yes, it is. More than what we have. And it's not going to be ready anyway. So let's not even bring that out. That's not part of the plan. To undo this. To undo what we've done. We're going to have to place the students someplace. We do. Cuz we have nowhere else to put. We have that's what a That's what I'm saying

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to the board. There are a lot more kids out there than it is face-to-place them. Right. But I but the board still has the right. To make the decisions or even come up with ideas. Mhm. This is why it's part of the agenda. Yeah. Because this is a concern of board members. Right. And as a president. My alliance is with board members to ensure that questions and concerns are being answered and dealt with. And and I'm going to say again, like I said at the last meeting. You may not

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get the answers that you want to hear but their answers but but mister Gross, there are also several scenarios that was previously discussed that everybody wasn't favored with that can help maneuver some things also but it gotta be a conversation willing to be had about moving students around students at because we stuck on elementary to adjust some things that may not be just adjusted in elementary. You may gotta address some high school. I I agree. Want to do. Again, all this

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all is a conversation that can be done but it's what you guys are willing to do and what you want to deal with. Right. When it come to making these adjustments. Cuz we can do whatever you guys want. But again, if we going to talk about adjustments, then what's the best way to to not cost the district too much money? So, it's a lot of conversations that gotta be had on where you want to put students at. I'm going to Very quickly. I'm going to defer the trustee Bowman. But but here's the thing what I'm, what I'm asking you guys. And and before we go into any discussion, here's, here's, here's what I'm asking and I'm asking of the board.

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This is just a suggestion from me. That if we get numbers back anticipated amounts, anticipated to start time, anticipated time of completion. If we make the decision, if that is the decision of this board, we're going to need those answers. Cost, dissipate a time of start, and completion. And we got 3 weeks left. Three weeks. Oh, I'm doing brother man. Three weeks. I prefer the trusty bone.

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So the question was asked, is it possible to be done? And you all say yes, right? Yes. And you all have done a great job. So let's let's say this. And I apologize. One reason. But with our facilities, right? Moving things is one thing. When it comes to curriculum and buses and all that. I don't know nothing about that stuff. That stuff. No understandable. Within within tolerance of your position. But from where your vantage point is it could be done if a decision was made to reverse something and switch something up

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there, right? With with certain caveats. So, we have to be able to engage, bid out, moving companies to to move this because we don't have the staff internally to be able to do that. We did the best we could moving this internally to save money but you tell me doing a move a move like this is very massive and you're looking at we don't have time to be it out. No and I understand that. But and again my concern is when it comes to the timeline I know we had a crunch but the reality of it is the biggest issue for me is the safety of our children. When you talk about that move is

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concerning to a multitude of parents in this community because of the levity of what could happen and the opportunity for liability on the board's part where something can happen at oversight is definitely evident when you talk about that vantage point from one to the other. Now, when you talk about logistics and you know, how you set it up, I would defer to you all because you are the professionals at how this would be set up. My thing is, the timeline is

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one thing but if we're capable of doing this and it creates a more comfortable learning environment for our students and for our parents to be more encourage that we are actually doing everything in our power to satisfy the needs of the many versus outweighing things when it comes to the needs of the few. I think that puts us in a position of leverage and it also puts us in a position of comfort when it comes to knowing that we took the extra step for our students and we took the extra step for the sake of the safety of our

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students and our parents and that is our main objective as board members to make sure our students are safe and when parents are taking their kids out now because of the education system but because of the fear of something happening. That becomes an issue for me. So I say all that to say when the decision was made initially, we didn't have a full board. We have a full board with a different open perspective from the whole community. So, not to put extra pressure on you guys and not to make your job more difficult because this is not what we're trying to do here but our number one objective is to make

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sure we give our children the best opportunity to succeed and if the optics or the setup is not conducive to that, then, decisions and change ups will have to be made eventually based off of a potential issue and again, we want to put ourselves in a position of being proactive, not reactive. I think we've been on our heels for too long now at this point when it comes to reacting to things when we can be in front of it and be proactive. So, that is my stance on that and I feel like if you sit, yo, you

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all tell me standing here that they can be done I'm willing to look at all options that will put our children in the safest position and will benefit the overall narrative of moving our children forward and our parents being comfort by their children having the best opportunity to learn with no distractions. So what what this is for Marv and Bill. Mhm. Are the fifth graders during their own section of the middle school? They're in their own section. Right. So they're not even mixing and mingling with the other grades. No.

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And so I post this question too and it's just food for thought. We have ITA, K-12. Correct. Those kids in ITA and I we have teachers here. They cross all day. The and we have preschool over there too. They have their own wing but there are some students, some classrooms that are actually with the other grade levels, not just pre K. So, we have to think about that. What's the difference between those fifth through eighth graders at the middle school versus the ITA, K, or let's say pre K through 12 and these

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fifth graders are in their own wing. And we and we talk about safety. If pull those fifth graders back and put them into those schools. We're looking at the fifth grade classes being over capacity. We're they're going to be sitting on top of each other where we probably have to create classrooms and binding up a gym or or the what auditorium. And then we have to think about and I'm sure this is something that the teachers may want to talk about too. Their contracts. If we were to take the Owen students and put them with

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everyone else. Correct me if I'm wrong but that Doctor Devison according to contract the teachers are here too. The capacity for fifth grade is how many? Is it Twenty-5? 30. Professional. Is it? Is it thirty? Okay. We're going oh we're we're going over that. So now we're talking about something different. What we have to pay for the teachers for being over the class size. So there are so many things that I wish we would have discussed. Prior. It's

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a lot. It's a lot. Planned and I just we didn't just wake up. And I'm going to let T speak. Before Trustee Bowman continues and then T can go next. Any of you guys understand there are two new board members here that was not part of the process. That's correct. So they have ideas that people are coming to them as well. This is why I wanted this discussion to be had today. So we all can have the same message, same information, and not at different times. Because the hope is that this diocese will Continue. However, this is why I ask that if you

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that you guys be here to talk about this because there is some pros and some cons and although I'll be realistic, the move can't be done. You guys are going to say because this, it can't be done not in three weeks. No. Just say that. That's all. It can't be done. I know you hear what I'm saying. I'm not discrediting or saying anything to you guys that make you look. No. It is extremely close to being impossible for a dad done before the start. Correct. We're not saying it's not going to be hard. It's close to being

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almost impossible to have this completed in three weeks. Financially, start an end date before school start. And the changes that will have to be made not just in elementary schools and it take it'll take multiple schools. That's why I make a move this way to make it happen. So I asked this services but student services, our enrollment, and transportation. And transportation. Yeah. Trustee Bowman. We understand that it can't happen in three weeks But the reality of it is, if it was possible to happen,

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what would be the timeline? Expectations, what uncomfortable situations would it put our parents in? Where would we have to pivot? Because my thing is if if difficult was easy, everybody would do it. And I'm not in a place of saying that difficult is a challenge. Difficult is just another opportunity to show how qualified and valuable we can be to making a success story out of this situation. So let's let's change the tempo of the impossible. I, there's

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a, there's not can't should come out of our vocabulary right now. Right. Let's look at the timeline and the logistics. We know three weeks is unrealistic. But what is a realistic timeline based off of what won't complicate the the move and what won't inconvenience our parents for a long period of time. And our inconvenience our students and our teachers for a long period of time. Where it could the transition can actually be done in phases or segments that makes it user friendly for staffing so we don't have to

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convolute this problem or make it extra complicated based off of a timeline that we know that is not realistic. It's more logistics than even time. Because again we gotta we gotta be to touch everything because the school's being closed. It can't be what is this building can't be moved. These certain students can't be reach It gotta be where it's open to where everything can be touched to make that happen. So it's more logistic than time. And we know based on the cost that minimally we have to

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bid this for 2 weeks. So we can't even think about moving things until after a bid is accepted after two weeks notice. Okay. You know this is not going to happen in 2 weeks. We're not talking 2 weeks. We're talking what we can do to make sure that we have a true timeline or a true logistics standpoint on where the inconveniences is. Where the challenges is. What we would have to overcome these challenges. So, that away, we can give people substance based off of a full board voting for

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this, not a partial board because you gotta understand when you look at perspective from the community, they didn't get a fair shake at this because they didn't have full representation sitting at this table that was either for or against it based off of it wasn't a full board. So, to say that this can't happen, I will sit up here and tell you that no, I'm not going to agree with anybody at this table but to say that we figure out a way for it to happen effectively, then, that's a better conversation that needs to be had. Time is, is of a essence when you're

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saying it boils down to the logistics. So, we all have to figure out what is the trigger points and the lever points to where we can put this all together and make it make sense. Again, this is not me dogging the work that you all have done. You've done a great job and I applaud you for having the pivot and adapt in a short notice but from a overall scope of who's all for this and who's all against this, we have to have a deeper conversation and we have to look at this from a whole perspective just what we decisions that was made to

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lead us up to this point. We we need to definitely open up previous conversations on schools being moved. That would definitely. So are we are we in an open, safe, transparent space? Can I speak? Yes. Really? So my concern would be nope. What do you what do you mean? No, no, I'm talking. Yes, they want to. Yes. VP Bone. VP Terry. This question was given to me by the the Board of Trustees. So, I'm asking that until they are satisfied with the answers

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that they're hearing whether they like them or not. This is important. This is a concern. So, yes. It's extremely important because they asked for this to happen. This is the meaning of the Board of Trustees. Not president and VP Terry. No, no. I'm I'm in total agreement with you on it. No. No. No. Yes. I think it's important for deep dive. So, we we don't have everything here to really deep dive into it. Yes, we do. We have enough to wear this board can be either satisfied what they're

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hearing or ask for another meeting. But they only speaking on their area. That's okay. They're part of the Red Roger. So, oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Justin. Okay. Trustee Miller, go ahead. Before we, Before we proceed, I have some very, very specific questions. Trust VP Terry, I understand that you said that there as if the updates for Reimagined have been in the committee meeting minutes for us to review and I have reviewed those. My concern is, is can you guys attest for your own personal your your program?

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Can you attest that what your your purview? Can you attest that what is being reported is what's actually done currently and be very specific. As it relates to the accommodation, let me ask I apologize. Let me rephrase that. What is the current status right now of accommodations for our special needs students including but not limited to ADA requirements? Uh the

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facilities that they need to if the whatever needs that they whatever equipment is needed for them to be in a comfortable learning environment. What is the current status right now of where we are with this move? That's part one. And the second. May I ask you real quick though. Are you speaking of the new move to the high school? That's correct. As a in the that's another subject. I'm going to talk about the fifth graders. That's a difference that we're going to go into that. Okay. But that that's

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where I'm I'm going to bring you with me to go over so we can take a look. Alright. That's a different yes. Cuz I went on the record though. I I digress My other my other part of that is mister Beasley. Yes ma'am. I remember when we voted had vote had the the final vote for Reimagined. And I specifically expressed concern about this with too many moving parts. Yeah. Over the summer. And I was concerned that some things will get overlooked and things wouldn't get done in the appropriate time. And with quality. Hm. And you

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said to me we've completed projects more in you we've completed more projects, complex projects in this in a shorter time. Period. Right? Correct. So what I just heard you say was, which is concerning to me, is that you said that Throughout this process, that you did the best that you can do. Um that's concerning to me because if if you were having some challenges, I'm assuming that you may have been having some challenges. If not, please correct

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me. No challenges. Okay. So, my concern is hearing that you did the best that you can do. It's a statement. We just do the best we can do. That's that's we do every day. We just do the best we can do every single day. Well, when it comes to our children, the best has to be to a standard. So, that's where my concern is is that you saying you get the best that you can do but does that meet the needs of our students. So, I understand it may be a state but as a trustee, I'm taking it like, hey, I did what I can do. No, it's not. I apologize if it can't. By the way, we we we go beyond the Call of Duty every

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single day. I mean, seriously, our entire team does. So, if that stable said the wrong way, I apologize for that but we work very hard every single day to get these kids they need. We go above doing that. We work with that principle over at Kennedy, miss Shields, been working with us hand in hand on a daily basis, making sure Kendi has the things they need to start school with and it's going to continued process as we talked about to the board. It's going to be a ten-year process for that program and we should continue to add to it. We

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we going to continue to work and make sure that program is successful and we're doing it now. Um again, unless there's some complaints I don't know about. We work diligently with that principle every single day and we go over there every single day making sure we get that building the way that need to be done. Again, everything is not done overnight. We're working very hard every single day but as I know, work with the principal, she's very satisfied with where we at right now with getting that program together and that's just something different I it hurt. And we and we continue to work together. Some school was even there and we had no

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issues that I know of it is is the issues came up. I was not aware of it. I worked the principal every single day. Every single day. In high school? The Kennedy program. If there's issues with the candy program. I'm not aware of it. Like we we made sure we made all kind of changes. Added things. Move things. If it's something going on that we didn't know about. I'm not aware of it. If there was some negative. That's good. I'll let trustee do and I and I let me speak on the behalf of that real quick. I had the opportunity to go over to Kennedy last week. Hm? A week before like because they were off.

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They're back this week. They were off entirely last week. Mm hmm. I spoke with you the week that I went over. Mm hmm. And the opportunity to speak with some of the employee, all of the employees there. Mm hmm. Uh physical therapists and that didn't but the principal wasn't there at the time that I was there. Mm hmm. I have a list here. Mm hmm. And I spoke with Trustee Miller. I didn't provide the list to her. But I told her that within the next week or two. Myself, her, Doctor Leverette and you. Hm.

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Principal Shields. We'll go over because there's some things that I saw. Yeah. And we talked about this already. But I wanted to make it publicly known. And we're going to go over this list because what I explained to the employees there. A lot of things that they're asking for. Could already be in the works. I don't know. Right? It could be asking for some things that is already on the list to be done. But it's about time and money. Mhm. Anticipated time of

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starting. Anticipate the time of completion. Cuz we don't ever want to give what we done on this day because when you're not we're going to hold you accountable for that day. They were in agreement with that. So, we'll discuss that when we go over there. We both have this list. and I actually have, I'm looking at the list here actually from the teachers and the physical therapist. Yes. The question I have is, we meet with the building principal. I I don't talk to the the teacher. You don't. The the process

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is that that's their chain of command. So, anything they need or want, it goes through the principle with a work order system. We make sure we get it done but everything if it's deemed emergencies, we take care of that right then and there Over the issue of was an Email sent or a phone call made. Again, we're at the high school single day dealing with candy since the day they moved. What was them before then? But again, that I know of, everything the principals asked me, we have diligently been doing it every single day and yes, it's a lot of, it's a lot in progress far as maintenance, far as new things over there, far as and we've had a lot

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of dishes knowledge, you guys may not even be aware of, because we, but we put it in my update, you read, I, we, we do updates every week. You do. And so, it's on there. We we put it on there, dad. Not to cut you off. I I need you to hear this. I want you to understand this. No way are we faulting you? Hm? I'm not. Some people are more comfortable of talking with certain people than others. Okay I don't know what the miscommunication is with staff and their principal. I don't want to say

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they felt more comfortable talking to me. I don't know. Okay. I don't know if these things were already given to the principal and it or even if they communicated with it. I don't know. This is why I'm saying we will meet all together including the principal. Thank you. And these questions can be answered, right? Appreciate it. Well, we all will be on the same page because I don't I I don't want you to take any offense. I know you're not. But I hear what you're saying. And you've always been upfront with me. Gonna be. These this

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may not have been communicated with them to the principal. I don't know. But we'll find out together. And that's the purpose of doing this. And I know you are. You are doing what you can do within your realm. I'm aware of that. Again Listen. It is my goal to ensure anybody, any anybody in this district, if you have a question, it should not go ignored. The respect is

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get an answer Whether it's the answer you want to hear or not. But it's an answer. Because when you don't, either you choose to ignore, or you don't have the answer. So you avoid That cannot happen in a school district or when we're doing something, dealing with something each and every single day. So, hear what I'm saying. I I know exactly where you're coming from but they felt comfortable to see. Man, I have a

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list. So, my purpose and goal is to ensure and and I'm not going there to attack the principal but to find out what's going on and why. So, let's open up these lines of communication. So, everybody not just you, me, trustees, can feel comfortable and been able to express, explain how you feel, and what we need to do. Because if we can, Listen, you know, and I'll go over to

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let me see if you've been. Listen, I was taught that constructive criticism is good because it makes you a better employee and it makes you a better person. But disrespect is unacceptable. Correct It is not my intent. to disrespect but to provide constructive criticism. To anybody that works into this in this district. Because we want everyone to be better. Yes

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sir. That's what this is about. This is not an attack. Oh and I'll take it that way. Okay. I I just wanted I I heard what you said. Mhm. Right? But we'll make sure because listen. In a school district there's only one page. And we all gotta be on it. If we want to run this together. I don't mind having conversations. I just want to be able to have a conversation. It's fine. Trustee Secretary Duke. So initially, I was truly against this fifth grade move. And I have I'm of the opinion. You're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution. So, what I have

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found, it can be done. Thank you. It's a model for transforming education. Ron Clark Academy. I am looking into it where They're going to pay for teachers to come and reproduce that as well as the board. So, I disagree with some of the things. I disagree with you saying that the sixth grader, the fifth graders, sixth graders won't ever come in contact. That would not be a true statement. They may have their classrooms

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housed in a in a wing that's not where the other classes but they will intermingle because they have to go to gym and they have to go to the lunch room. So, so, unless you going to build a separate gym and lunch room, then, let's stay away from saying they'll never have contact because that would be a blatant lie. They will have contact in passing. However, moving forward, we want to move this district forward. Yes. And we

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already know schools are closed and this that and the other and so, what I did was sought information. Went to look, can we make this work? If we're stuck with this? So, that's where I am. It can work. Can we realistically make this move? I'm not sure. I don't know. What I do know, we have to be supportive of our students. We have to make the best decision that will

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afford them the best opportunity. Now, we know fifth graders in their progression of learning, they are entitled to recess. So, we would not just put them outside with nothing to do. I don't know if that's a violation of not having the equipment form to run, jump, and play. What we have to begin to do is to seek solutions that will best support our students, staff, and parents. As the board,

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you talk about some things you guys will bid out other things you just take. So, I'm a little in between that. It was on your threshold, yes. Yeah. So, where where where I am with this? We have to be make some definitive choices. Right. And execute them. So whether that