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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=5tMXMBgWC1w

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Call the meeting to order. We stand for a a moment of silence and the pledge of allegiance. Ice flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible,

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liberty and justice for all. All right, madam. Call please. >> Ginger >> here. >> Christopher P >> here. >> Johny [clears throat] >> here. >> Matthews >> here. >> Gary >> here. >> Chris Williams >> here. >> Chairman Charles >> here. And the proof of publication

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please. The items were advertised on June 24th, 2026 and live and by >> Okay, thank you. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes please? >> Motion to approve the meeting minutes from January 22nd, May 7th, and June

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11th, and the workshops on April 9th and May 21st. >> Mr. Mr. Chair, >> I'd uh I think there's a correction that needs to be made on oh May 21st. I think >> May 21st

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>> if they check that because it indicates um I was in attendance which I was and did a presentation but then a couple times it refers to um Mr. Divine as representing me. see if they can correct that particular reference.

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>> Okay. >> Other than that, it looked fine. >> Okay. So, we have a motion >> second with an amendment to remove Mr. Divine from the minutes of the May 21st

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meeting. Other than that, you're making a motion to approve the minutes that submitted without one correction, >> right? >> Yep. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, we have a motion in a second. Any further discussion on the motion? >> All in favor signify by saying I. >> I.

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>> Oppos like sign. All right. Okay. Well, I'd like to welcome everybody today. We're at the planning commission. We meet twice monthly. We're appointed by the board of county commissioners. We serve the planning agency and we hold public hearings and

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transmit to the board of county commissioners our recommendations and uh comprehensive land amendments, land development code amendments, resonings, and conditional use requests. The planning commission is the final decision-making body for special exceptions, certain appeals, variance

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requests, and certain alternative standard requests. However, fi final decisions may be appealed to the board of county commissioners. If anyone is in opposition to any development code amendment, resoning, conditional use, or any item where we make a recommendation

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to the board of county commissioners, it's important for you to attend that board of county committ meeting. So for those of you who are not familiar with the meeting uh the meeting format we have three sections continuences consent items and regular items. We'll

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go through uh each of those [clears throat] and uh as I call for uh continuences if there's um it's been our custom to approve continuence requests from the staff or the applicant unless unless there are extenduating

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circumstances. I'll al then I'll go through the consent items any of the consent items. If there is someone here who wishes to speak on any of the items currently on consent, then we will pull it from consent and put it on with the regular items which

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will be fully heard and vetted. Um applicants will have five minutes to make presentations and questioners from the audience will have three minutes to state their questions and we'll those will be timed when you see the red buzzer go off that

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your time is up. Um there there is an opportunity for people at least 24 hours prior to this meeting in writing if you want extra time. You may be granted extra time. He may not,

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but he also may be. Um, the uh what we want to try to do is if you have a phone with you, please put it in the silent position so it doesn't go off when somebody's speaking. I'll do the same thing.

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And uh before we start, is there anybody here that's here to speak on an item that is not on today's agenda? Okay. So, before we start the testimony, let me uh just ask anyone that's planning to speak today to raise your

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right hand and be sworn. >> All right. Thank you. Mr. Chair, we do not have any individuals signed up for public comment and I just wanted to note we do not have any individuals signed up to speak in opposition online as well. >> Okay, thank you very much.

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All right, so let's begin. Good afternoon, planning commission. Last time coming to you is Gianna Germans. Still coming to you with planning, development, and economic growth. Item PC6 is PTE 26CU15. It's a conditional use request in the

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name of steel residential helicopter landing pad, Jacob and Malia Steel. It's a conditional use for a private residential helicopter pad located in an AC agricultural district in northeast Pasco County on the east side of Bower Road approximately.3 miles south of the

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intersection of Mainline Road and Bower Road containing approximately 16.79 acres. And this is coming with the request to continue the item to the September 3rd, 2026 planning commission meeting at 1:30 p.m. or as soon thereafter a same may be heard in Dade City.

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>> All right. Is the applicant present? Um, anyone here to to speak on this one? Okay. I think that's uh is that the only continuence we have? >> Yeah, that's the only continuence. >> Yes, sir. That's the only item on.

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>> All right. So, do I hear a motion? >> So, moved. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Do we have a motion in a second? Any further discussion of item P6? If not, all in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Oppos like signed.

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>> Okay. Motion carries. >> Before I begin the consent agenda, I did want to note that all items that were previously on the consent agenda now have individuals signed up to speak. Would you still like me to go through the consent agenda and pull these items? >> Uh, no. I think what we can do is if we

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know that they're going to be pulled, um, we'll just go ahead and pull them and put them on the regular. >> Okay. All right. Okay, I'm going to proceed with the regular then. I'm going to put those items first. >> Okay. Item APC9 is PD267922, a zoning amendment in the name of

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Emanuel Commons, 11637 Emanuous Cemetery Road for a change in zoning from an AR agricultural residential district to a C2 general commercial district located in East Pasco County on the north side of County Road 52, approximately 280 ft

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northwest of the intersection of McCabe Road and State Road 52, containing approximately 1.52 acres. And this will be presented by staff. >> Okay. >> Good afternoon. This is Jenny Dea with planning development and economic growth.

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>> I'm sorry. Can you speak right in there? And I can't quite understand what >> you did not understand me there. Is there okay? >> Say it again. >> Better yet. >> Start. >> Let's just start over. Should I say that again? >> Yes. I I want to make sure they have it on on the tape.

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>> Okay. So, this is item PC9 res 7922 as already mentioned in May's comments. Uh the applicant is requesting uh for the zoning amendment

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for allowing for C2 general commercial district uses. This is an uklidian reszone from AR to C2. Um future land use is RR

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and the purpose is to allow for C2 general commercial district uses. As already mentioned, this is north of County Road 52 approximately 280 ft northwest of McKay Road and State Road 52 intersection.

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The fair share for these substantial road improvements will be determined prior to preliminary site plan approval. This is the location within the south market area service area

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surrounding the context map. This is the proposed [clears throat] resort from AR to C2. [cough] [clears throat] The future land is R. Zoning. The findings of fact, the site contains

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a single family residential home on approximately 152 acres. And the applicant proposes to develop uh the property in conformance with the land development code section 526 C2 general commercial district standards.

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access to the properties from Elo Cemetery Road, a county residential road with approximately 40 feet of rightway. There are two multi-use path on the north and the other on the south from Eale Cemetery Road west and south to

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SR52. The applicant has volunteered to record a restriction prohibiting residential development on the property and limits the use of this parcel to an 8,000 square ft retail building pursuant to

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land development code LDC section 526.2 permitted uses and we recommend approval to the board of county commissioners of this proposed zoning amendment if you have any questions. Okay, >> thank you. Any questions from

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this one? >> Anything? No. All right. President need your name and address. >> Yes. Good afternoon partners Florida. >> Here's a city map of subject property

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approximately 1.5 acres section 52 road. The zoning is compatible with existing use and induced trends. Properties to the west have z. Property to the east has P2 zoning. The properties to the north have agricultural zoning and the properties

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to the south have MPU and AR zonings. Existing commercial uses along County Road 52 include Eddie's Roller Rink, Marathon Coach, and Extra Space Storage. Along County Road 52, there is a site zone for a future Advent Health, a property with commercial entitlements in

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the Marada CC MPU, 4 acres of commercial entitlements in the Leo at San Antonio MPU, and approximately 9 acres of commercial entitlements in the Maui Village MPU. Just west of the property along State Road 52, there's [snorts] a Target fulfillment center, one Pasco

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Center, and the Double Branch mixeduse development and Abbeby Crossings commercial development are under construction. Our request is consistent with the future land use classification of retail office residential ROR. All surrounding

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properties of the flu classification of ROR are are of RO. The RO future land use area totals approximately 490 acres of which approximately 120 acres has been utilized for office and commercial uses. Reszoning this property with a C2

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district will contribute to the mixture of retail, office and residential uses within this RO future land use classification. Our request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. The property is in the south market area, the the expansion

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urban service area and fronts county road 52, a collector roadway. There is EF emphasis given to greater intensity and higher densities in these areas as there is existing proposed infrastructure and transit opportunities to support the intensification of these

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areas per policies flu 8.1.2 and flu 1.1.2. Consistent with these flu policies, the request for commercial zoning change is appropriate for this property. To summarize some of the key findings,

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staff has found this request to be consistent with the comprehensive plan and land development code. Staff has found the request to be approvable with conditions and we have agreed to the live local deed restriction and specific deed restriction to only allow a maximum

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8,000 square ft of commercial uses on the property. With that, I'll conclude the presentation and respectfully request your uh your approval. We are available to answer any questions that you may have. Okay. Are there any questions? >> So square feet of retail of commercial

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use. You say commercial use of construction says retail bill. Can you give us a call on that? >> Yes. So the restriction is derived the time and phasing the transportation analysis require analysis. So the retail strip is that most use zoning district. Really reason that we have the 8,000 foot is

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due to that fit much more considering potential offsite transportation impacted use because obviously looking for that >> but otherwise it could be other C2 use. So it could be gas station for example or >> so that would be determined at state plan if there was the um applicant would have to complete another timing phase. >> So it is position retail.

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>> Okay. Thanks any other questions on this one. >> The only individual have comment on this item is Miss Michaela Cross. >> So your address base unit 1023. Good commissioners. I'm a resident here

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today. I urge this commission to d this application without proper justice because it represents appropriate intensification of land use that by refl comprehensive plan use intensification on page one of this applicant's narrative. It clearly dismiss the significant [laughter] native habitat that exists on the site today and

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testifying on this poll violates county comprehensive chapter 2 flu 2.1.6 which explicitly leads county to breach of agents that destroy surrounding moral care open space and critical natural resources. Residents in this area like the Marada moved here. It typically has the surrounding farm animals. You know, comments will be in the neighborhood.

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They're so sad to hold disappear again undetermined but handle impact and stable violation. This site contains the submitted permit from the park of agriculture service under Florida code rule 5-401. >> What protected floor do you know is on the site that is being destroyed where you claim application? >> Um this fine pull

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and it's a ground. There's also native mand oranges and there um >> protect. Yes, it is going to be Florida statute title 4581 section 581.185 subsection 2. Please pay attention to factor B a little bit slower so we can

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go look at that. >> Yes sir. >> Go ahead. >> Um type Florida title 5 chapter 581 section 581185 and please get subsection one subsection

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factor B. >> Okay. Thank you. Um also for tree preservation and wetland flooding go the fails paso county land development code chapter sections 802.1 and 802.4 for mandatory tree prot further the site sand and clay soil it prevents natural

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percolation for the surface water to pull on the layer um and adding density over the sensitive terrain conflicts with comprehensive chapter 3 policy con 1.6.17 6.17. It will overwhelm low infrastructure such as the drainage um covert directly under the road to the

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left of the property. >> I'm sorry. Are you a registered professional engineer? >> I am not sir. >> Hydraologist. >> No, I just >> soil scientist. >> I understand. >> So stating these things are fact and you really don't have direct knowledge, do you? >> It it is clay. Like

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>> you did soil borings on the site. >> I used to engineer. >> I am not. >> I just know it's clay. I uploaded it a lot. Um, and then, uh, under Florida statute section 163.3194,

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development orders must confirm form strict strictly to adopted comprehensive plan. Um, please enforce policy flu 2.1.6 and deny agenda item APC9. Thank you. >> So, oh, excuse me. Hold on.

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So in the statute that you cited >> Yes. >> Just exactly what is the violation you are claiming >> the >> because it says the section that the statute offers is protection against harvesting. So what constitutes illegal

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harvesting >> in regards to um 35? >> What harvesting is going on by this project? >> Yes, I know exactly where you're in the I can picture my brain. That's why I referenced

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subsection 2B. The it should be the definition. It's the um it's like malicious destruction of native flora. And I know

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they're probably not doing it intentionally, but that's what's happening. If this approval is allowed, >> the statute addresses harvesting, >> wanting harvesting. >> There's [clears throat] another part of that sentence.

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>> Well, I mean, we read the first paragraph. Legislative declaration. The legislature finds and declares that it shall be the public policy of the state to provide recognition for those plant species native to the state that are endangered, threatened, or commercially exploited. Protect the native flora from

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all unlawful harvesting in both public and privately owned lands. Provide an orderly and controlled procedure for restricted harvesting of native flora from the wild, thus preventing want and exploitation or destruction of native plant populations. encourage the propagation of native species of Florida

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flora and provide the people of the state with the information necessary to legally harvest native plants so that as to ultimately transplant those plants with the greatest possible chance of survival. So this deals with harvesting and basically the the poaching of plant

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species off of >> and and then to take that one step further, what the statute says, it says that I can't go onto your property and harvest a plant. It doesn't say that I can't harvest the plant on my own

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property. So is this the their property? >> And why can't they harvest the plant on their property? Because the statute says they can't. says, "I just the only thing this statute prohibits is me going on your property and harvesting it." >> Plus, it doesn't doesn't fit the definition of harvesting. Anyway,

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>> the I was referring the legal uh I have Can I grab it? I have a paper that says, >> "Are we keeping time on this?" >> I don't see any lights. I know we're asking questions. To be clear though, if the commission >> legislative commission members asking

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her questions, not going to count against your time anyway. So, >> I'm trying to figure out if they're removing a plant that you claim is protected from their own property, where are they in violation of this statute? Because this statute does not prevent

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them, at least not by by my reading, does not prevent them from harvesting plants on their own property. It prevents them from harvesting such protected plants on other people's property >> or in the wild, >> which is a little

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>> other people's property. Right. >> If that were true, nobody could farm their own property. >> I was I was under the impression that that's where the permit came in where they would they would >> Well, first of all, we're not giving

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permits from this board. We're we're only deciding whether there's an appropriate use. They have other boards and issues they have to overcome besides this board. >> And at site permit, they have to make sure the endangered species are protected. And >> we don't really deal with that section of that, >> but that's not part of our permit.

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>> They're going to have to provide a wildlife report at site. >> Yeah. >> At that time >> concern because you know, I check on permitting with people and they don't have it and it's just like where is all this in Florida? I I get permits for a living and I can assure you you don't do

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work here without a permit or if you do you'll get a lovely visit from somebody from code enforcement and then someone from Mr. Goldstein's office over here will haul you into court and you'll be fined $500 per day for every day that

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violent exists until you correct it. And if you refuse to correct it, you'll be jailed for contempt of court. >> Yeah. I'm just trying to like prevent it because it's just >> But you you understand what surrounds it, right? Have you looked at the future land use map for what surrounds that area?

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>> Okay. So, you're you're not really preventing it's it it's there. I mean, there's industrial right next to it. It's RO. It's it there's commercial. It's this is a a little sliver within

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hundreds of acres that's adjacent to it. that's already designated in the comprehensive plan as retail, office, and residential, which is what is being [clears throat] proposed. >> It has been for a number of years. [snorts] >> We appreciate your pass. We do, but

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>> actually brought statute this time. >> Yeah. No, I mean, we we appreciate you speaking up and bringing that data, but again, you have to prevent present competent evidence. It's just like a court hearing. You have to present competent evidence for us to hear. >> Was there anyone else to speak on this

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one? >> You need to get the applicant gets rebuttal. >> Yeah. I just wanted to find out if there's anybody else in the crowd. >> So, um, if the applicant would like to come up and answer any of those questions or maybe we've answered a lot of them for you. I don't know.

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>> Um, thank you, Mart, for the record. I just want to finish off with the applicant will have to comply with all um state and local requirements at the site construction permitting phase. >> All right. Okay. So, any other questions from up here?

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If not, uh might be a motion. >> I'm approval of uh AB9. [clears throat] >> Second. >> Motion a second for the all in favor? I >> I like sign. >> Okay. Motion carries.

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>> The next item is item PC7 PD 2693 amendment in the name of CA Inc. US41 town homes, MPUD master plan unit development for a reszoning request from an MPD master plan unit development and a C2 general commercial district to an MQD master plan unit development

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district to allow for the development of 171 town home units and a seated infrastructure located in central Pasco County approximately 450 ft southeast of Land of Lakes Boulevard and Mysteria Loop intersection containing approximately 23.67 acres to be presented by staff.

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Okay, thank you. >> Good afternoon, planning commission members. This is Kurt Cyverson, planning development of growth. The item PDE 267933 is the US41 town homes and beauty. Proposed is a zoning amendment in the

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name of US 41 town homes impunity. A reszoning request from an MPD master plan unit development district. This is an expired portion of the Caliente Resorts MPUD to a standalone MPUD master plan unit development district for the maximum development of 171 platted town

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homes on approximately 23.67 67 acres equating to a gross density of approximately 7.2 units per gross acre. It's in the central market area within Commissioner Jagger's district.

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This is a budding east of Landlakes Boulevard situated approximately 450 ft southeast of the Land Boulevard and Were Loop intersection. Here's our zoning map. the access way. This is a flag pole lot. So, the access

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way is on a see-through piece of property, but the actual acreages to house residences comes from an expired portion of the Caliente Resorts MPU. The subject parcel where residences are

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proposed retains a res 9 future land use which enables the proposed density without amendment. And then the flag pole accessway has a res 3 future land use designation but will not house residences. It's our context map to visually orient

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the subject property. And here's our MPD master plan. This illustrates both the front and rear loaded town home typical products. A 15 foot BB buffer is proposed around the periphery of the project and a

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pedestrian access way is contemplated on the southwest portion of the parcel for potential future development of the budding properties and an emergency access is proposed onto Asber. The main access way for vehic vehicles and pedestrians is of course

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directly onto lands boulevard. our binding concept plan. So, development of the 171 platted town homes will conform to a blend of front and rear loaded product types. It's as follows. There will be 52 front loaded

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town homes and 119 rear-loaded town home units. The orientation of these town home units provides access to the centralized recreation and open space for residents. The applicant proposes one variation as part of the

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application today. This is against 901 infrastructure standards, specifically 901.6.3.11 continuation of existing street patterns and street access to adjoining property. This is as to not provide a vehicular

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connection north, south, or east of the subject property. The northernmost acreage is has an extensive cat one wetland system which prevents vehicular connection. The immediate southern acreages contain existing residences. [clears throat]

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This is where an emergency access is proposed on Asper. And lastly, the eastern connection contains existing residences, namely the gated Caliente Resorts neighborhood. So given these site constraints, PD is

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amanable to the request as it accomplishes the intent of LDC section 901.6.3.11. With that, PTE recommends approval to the board of county commissioners. I'm available if you have any questions. >> So I have two for you. >> Yes, sir.

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>> Um one's just kind of a clarification for some. So the subjects uh they didn't memorize subject list as an NPD district C2, which is what it is. um the CT sling key um but the project over paragraph is states and MPD to PUD if you um but then

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the master plan shows 9976% MPD and 24% mission C2 so I was just wondering just for the actual zoning proposed >> right yeah I just wonder where the AR's coming because it didn't obviously map it that's not always accurate either uh

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so my second question is traffic um so there's some issues now with the US 41 character road intersection started exceeding the recommends that uh the bud improvements and the other improvements and timing adjustments like that might make this a little better because that 400 foot turn. Um so um are those pretty finally committed to the operation

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before [clears throat] with those >> my respectfully refer to my resident expert. Okay. [laughter] When the hole go in the right >> the million growth the actually was completed summer 2005 that is in the

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transportation program for the MO for 25 to 29. Okay. >> The 4005 foot is Finger was needed the exact length down with this tri. Okay. Could be an issue but just there's plans were in the works sir.

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Can you probably just go back to the first issue that was raised is the actual zone MQD to MPD or or is there in fact some C2 or AR? >> Sure. >> In this zone >> the uh the C2 is that little existing flag lot of C2

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>> it is being resed so the underlying zoning doesn't really matter for this action. >> Um >> well the reason I'm asking is because the notice the the published notice for this

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just says MPU to MPU. It doesn't mention the Z2. So, >> I want to make sure we don't I want to make sure we don't have a notice problem here. >> So, it's not already C2. >> Well, I I don't know. I'm asking is

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there is there in [clears throat] fact >> a reasonzoning from C2 >> something appears David from this map that's in the packet that the C2 is the access way into the expired MPU

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>> that's what I looked at the C2 piece where the AR is coming in because that >> master the whole surrounding polygons on accident because that property is only huge >> is to reszone the I can speak to the C2PS and they're they're wanting to >> because the they sent to the adjacent

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property owners only says MPD to MPD. So I don't know what their request was. >> Sure. 27th Ramble of our new property for the applicant. Our intention is to go PDP because the two can stay the I have to answer what our survey asks the boundary

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I can't comply. Um but our intent is to go from MPD as you have noticed. >> You're not proposing any residences on the part that is currently zone C2. So it's isn't a really >> Yes. >> point because it's only into the residential area. >> Correct. >> Which could be on any zoning district? >> Correct.

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>> So you'd be okay with C2P staying C2. >> Yes. >> And we can work on clean up staff and the board. If you're okay with C2P saying C2, I don't think we have an issue. >> That solves the notice problem. >> Thank you. >> Then staff need to fix memo and not say

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there's a resilient from C2. >> Okay. >> Your access will expire. >> True. >> Um Barbara, I think there's some people that might want to speak on. Do you want to speak first or you going to hold your time?

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Out of respect for your time and the thoroughess that you wrote with staff, I will defer and just wait to see what the public comment is and then we'll from there. Thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. Who's on the list? >> Mr. Chair, the first individual I have signed up to for seven. >> Who's that?

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>> After I don't have anybody else signed up for this item. >> Okay. I think we have one other speak, right? I just >> I'll recognize she speaks. He's already on the list. Okay. So, come forward. [cough] >> [clears throat] >> So, we'll need your name and address

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again. Got to keep track. Who you are? >> Michaela Krauss, 35920, Praise Please, Unit 102, Zephr Hills, Florida 33541. I have sworn. >> Thank you. >> Good afternoon, planning commissioners.

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I am a resident here today to strongly urge you to deny this zoning amendment with CA Properties, Inc. in the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan Policy. I find that the owner is inconsistent um with first under Pasco County Land

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Development Code, chapter 300, section 303, code 303.1, factor B on exhibit B of the conditions of approval. Um I as a resident I just see that it lacks the owner signature on

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page 12. Um just would like clarity on that. Second, the applicants listed species survey. Uh I just I can't see where it would be accurate both with its direct field observations and habitat

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mapping. Um this directly violates Pasco County comprehensive plan conservation element. >> Can can you can you say that again? You you have what issue with the listed species survey? >> Yes. um with land development code

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chapter 300 section 303 code 303.1 factor B and in the packet they uploaded

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exhibit B the conditions of approval on page 12 I didn't see like an owner signature so I But I think it goes after that you said something about >> Yes. Oh yes yes yes. >> The listed species.

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>> Yes. The listed species. So this this land really con Yes. Perfect. Um the land it really concerns me because it's you over 20 acres and um you know I didn't find any permitting

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with with flora but I understand you take it as the harvesting. So, uh, we can move past that. >> Well, permits are after the zoning. Permits are we reszone first, then permits are. >> Yeah. Remember, we don't do permits. >> That's why you haven't seen anything

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about permits yet. >> Yes. >> But you said there was a problem with their listed species survey. >> Y. >> Yeah. Um because this the due to the collision we had of the baby panther by the outlets a

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couple years ago in 75. This is panther, you know, this is Florida panther territory. It needs to be known. I'm not an expert on Florida. I'm just a concerned resident. >> So what's wrong with the listed species or >> where's a Florida panther on it?

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>> I don't think it's accurate. >> I don't think the random Florida panther. I'd have to check fairly serious on range. >> I'm trying to be a voice for the voiceless because >> I think you're right. >> You know, the data on the Florida Panther range, it's >> you know, we had a baby cub killed on 75

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out of the t premium outlets. >> This is in their path. They used waterways. Um, so this directly violates Pasco County comprehensive plan policy chapter 3, policy con 1.1.2 2 pol and

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policy 1.5.5. Um, as I said, this parcel is a critical range for the Florida panther. Um, along with other beautiful flora, trees, insects, plants, and as well as chapter

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2, flu 2.1, policy flu 2.1.6 section G. Thank you. >> Well, hold on. >> Hold on. Wait a minute. All right, we we're not finished to ask any questions. So, >> go ahead. Go ahead. >> What What about this development doesn't

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meet those policies? >> Yes. Section G. Um it is there to minimize disturbance to wetlands and other natural features. And um I also, you know, think that's inconsistent with Florida statute title

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28, chapter 3, 79, section 379.2291, um with the threatened species act. Uh this >> what's inconsistent with it >> that the fact that the it is Florida panther territory. And yes, I'm aware

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I'm not an expert and I'm aware the data on this is So, I'm have I'm I'm I'm having difficulty understanding where there's some You said there was a problem with wetlands. >> Yes, sir. This property has zone A

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wetlands in both corners, right and left. >> Uhhuh. >> Um Yes, sir. >> And are you aware that the master plan that they've submitted shows that they're preserving those wetlands and they're providing a 25- ft buffer to protect the perimeter of those wetlands? >> I did see that. So then what's the

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problem with the wetlands? >> Yes. I'm I'm trying to be a voice for the voiceless and protect it a little stronger because for what I see that they uploaded um this also violates

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Pasco County Land Development Code Chapter 800 section 802.1 and 802.4. Um, and then also you can see on page 21 of the developers timing and phasing

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analysis. >> What does timing and phasing have to do with wetlands? >> Yes, sir. So on the developers timing and phasing analysis page 21, you will see their topographic map. And you can

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see as a resident, I'm not an expert. I'm just looking at what they uploaded their topographic map. Why would I have a topographic map in a timing and phasing anal timing and phasing analysis is a traffic analysis? >> Yes, sir. >> Analyzes how many cars are on the road

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and whether I not whether or not transportation improvements are needed. Now, what does that have to do with topography? >> Yeah, they have their topography map on page on page 21. I was surprised to find it too, but I

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found it very insightful. a beautiful piece of land in our county. Um, and and I noticed as a resident that there is some really nice peaks in there and then you have that zone A wetland at, you know, adjacent on the property and

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usually that means sink holes. Um, so it's just kind of >> So again, you're a geotechnical engineer no >> geologist, soil scientist, hydraologist. >> Do you want to talk to a sinkhole expert? because there's one sitting on this board.

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>> Yeah, >> there there not any issues with this site that I'm aware of from a geotechnical perspective. Um I haven't looked at that deep into it, but uh I don't think there's any single potential on on this site at all. And also the p

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the panther, the range of the panther is is quite a few miles south of tens of miles south of this uh this project. Based on the map I'm looking at, >> do you live within the range of the

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Panthers? >> The documented evidence is very it's a lack of we have we have a lack of it right now. And we had a dead a dead baby Florida Panther by the Tampa Premium Outlets

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on 175 and I don't want that to ever happen again. and they come up through. >> Well, ma'am, just because this may be the range of one animal or another animal does not mean we shut down all development. >> No, >> how many wild animals do you think were

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killed to build the neighborhood you live in? >> Do you think any endangered plant species, any soil was disturbed to build your home or the roads you drive on to get to your house? >> I wish I could have fought for it back then. >> So, where would you live then now?

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wherever the wind takes me. Um and then also um I feel that obliterating these natural contours on the land, it directly violates comprehensive plan policy con 1.5.3

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and land development code chapter 900 section 902 threatening surrounding parcels with severe runoff and flood hazard. >> Again, I will ask you, you're a professional engineer. I'm a concerned resident, >> drainage scientist, hydraologist, soil

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scientist. So, what expertise do you have to come testify here about the potential for flooding? >> The residents, >> you understand this is a quasi judicial hearing, okay? You have to pre present

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actual facts and if you're going to act as an expert witness, you need to be a qualified expert. So far, you haven't demonstrated yourself as a qualified expert. >> Maybe you could give me examples maybe after I could email you. Thank you.

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>> Um, >> we have lots of people up here, myself included, Mr. Gerardy over here, that actually practice this stuff for a living. >> Yes, sir. And we have I'm we have degrees in this and we have licenses and

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we have decades of experience doing it. >> Thank you sir. >> Also just anecdotally I live in the community immediately to the north of this and we don't have flooding issues in our in this area. So just if that puts your mind at ease from that perspective.

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Um, and then lastly, uh, I just found under Florida statute title 11, chapter 163, section 163.3194, all local development orders must conform strictly to the adopted comprehensive plan. Um, and I just found with unsigned exhibit B and direct

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conflict with policy con 1.5.3, item 7 fails standard. Please deny zoning amendment item seven. Thank you. >> Thank you. Sir, we're going to need your name and address. And >> my name is David Sharon. >> And you're 21006 plus score.

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>> And have you been sworn? Have you been sworn? >> I think you came in late. I don't think you were sworn. >> Yeah, I I Yeah, I stood up. >> Did you? >> Okay. >> Okay. [clears throat] All right. Just a couple questions. You know, I >> I got 50 years of development property. I'm not interested in stopping nothing. >> Right.

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>> But uh the traffic on that road and I've been here four years and and at 2:00 in the afternoon to 3:30, it's a racetrack. Okay. And you know, I know you got u traffic studies, all that. We really need a red light around there somewhere. Okay. But uh speed them 55 miles an

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hour. They come through there doing more than that. You can get killed right there. Okay. Just consider that. The other side of 41 uh they built probably 500 houses back in there. all those people dumping out, you know, etc. So, make a long story short, just consider that uh you know, the ingress and egress

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is provided on the draw. I saw it. Okay. Uh you know, you said something about an emergency um entrance or whatever. I don't where is that at is that is that the same road? >> Uh Abner, there's an A. >> Abner drive. >> Abner.

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>> Abner. >> Yeah, I couldn't think of begins with an A. >> Absure. Absure Abure Drive. >> Can we show you the map, please? Put it up for everybody to see. >> But that's only going to be it's not a

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regular vehicular connection, just emergency access only. >> Okay. Uh and I understand there's a buffer between where we live, okay, and uh and the subject property. So >> So there's the map. Is it Where's the emergency access? >> All right. >> It's the double arrow on the inside of

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the wall. Okay. And I have another uh neighbor here, Matt Light. He lives on one of them, too. But anyway, uh we just, you know, there's no other coming through our you know, you can't stop uh development. So, we just want to make sure nothing else coming through

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Caliente. You know what I'm saying? Is that true? No other eress, right? >> All that's shown on this plan is just one main ingress. I understand US41. >> And and that's fine. So last thing is uh you know traffic u u study or whatever

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need to study about a either a red light or um you know a turning lane or something. I mean it's it's unbelievable. I mean there's been several wrecks right there where we come out and it's getting worse progressively every year. That's what I want to say. Thank you very much.

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>> Okay. Thank you. I I'm sure they'll address the uh questions you have about traffic study too. >> [clears throat] >> William Vermillion playing development economic growth. So when when tower punches through there to Caliente you have >> you have to speak up over the thunder

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[laughter] >> ominous precursor. Thank you. >> William Vermillion, Planning Development, Economic Growth. When uh when we talked about Bud Beexley, which is Tower Road, when it does punch through on that realignment to the intersection with Caliente, that would be adding a signal for for that

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gentleman there to to slow traffic down, as well as uh where he lives, that neighborhood uses that Caliente Boulevard as their primary access to 41. >> You hear that, sir? >> You hear that? Okay. Is there any timing for um

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that road doing that? Do you have is that programmed yet? >> Right. That was the the Bud Beexley piece whenever Mr. Plet's asked me which is in the the work program for 2025 to 2029. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> Thank you. >> And then the signal timing adjustments

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because they're [clears throat] looking at doing that at the air and cut off 41 intersection too because that's that intersection is already over allowable thresholds as well. So, um, their signal time, they're talking about signal timing and split side street

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configuration. Do you know what the >> I would, uh, I'd defer to Mr. Henry on the, uh, his split timing. >> Okay. [laughter] >> He's passing it off. >> But the 405 foot lane would be

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constructed with this project. >> Is that a question? Okay, >> that was Yeah, it was a question, but I think I answered it myself. >> Okay, any other questions for the applicant? >> So, you heard that there's a turn lane that's going to be constructed? >> Yes. Good. >> Okay.

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>> Okay. Uh if there's no one else, if the applicant, come forward. Harbor bill height 6327 Graham Boulevard sections 802 of the land development code that was referenced regarding tree preservation will be complied with at site plan. This as you all knowing or

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resoning or recommending approval resoning does not authorize any development on this property. Same with section 902 of the of the development code which is storm water flu policy 2.1.6 Six is protection of rural areas and specifically conservation subdivisions within rural areas. We are

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and this is the northeast policy for northeast Pasco rural area. This property is nowhere near northeast Pasco rural area. Con 1 con 1.1.2 is impacted list of species. Comprehensive plan policies are not regulatory. They're

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implemented in the land development code. I'm a 31year expert in land development code regulation, writing land development code regulations and comprehensive plan policies. Most of these policies that are in the conservation element were written by me

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and the implementating implementation of con policy 1.1.2 2 is land development code section 803 which has been complied with relative to the resoning which required a listed species survey that was submitted and reviewed by natural resources. Listed species will be

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reviewed again at site development land con policy 1.5.3 protection of wetlands. This is implemented by land development code section 805. This this project will exceed the requirements in in 805. As

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you pointed out Mr. Moody we have chose my client has chosen not to have any impact and preserve a 25 foot buffer 1.5 con 1.5 impact a list of species implemented by section 803 LDC

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with that tutorial on actually how the comprehensive plan and land development code work I will refer to Steve Henry to ask answer your technical questions about traffic. >> Thank you. Good afternoon. Steve Henry, Linkson Associates, 5023 West Laurel, Tampa

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33607. Um, Mr. Vivian answered the question about the signal. Uh, the reality is today, if you look at Tower Road and Carer Road, it doesn't meet signal warrants. So, we wouldn't be able to put a signal there today anyway. But once

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that road gets realigned and the traffic on Tower Road, then it would meet signal warrants, and that's proposed to be signalized at that point in time. Uh, as far as the turn lane, uh, we have had a pre-application with DOT. They are in agreement with the access that we're proposing to US 41. We will work with

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them. We will have to put a right turn lane in there. We'll work with them on the exact length of that because of a driveway to the south. It may have to be a little bit shorter to not impact that driveway, but we're working with them on what that length will be, which will be fairly close to four, but it may be a little bit less than what is what is

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there as far as the intersection of 41 and Aaron Cutoff. So when we do these, we're given the signal timings from from the county and that's what we put into the actual analysis. The reality is these are all the actual timing per cycle changes constantly. The these are

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iterative, you know, uh programs. And so all we're saying is that you may have to adjust that side street volume or excuse me, the side streetet green time a little bit, red, yellow. And that's really just it actually happens in and DOT and the county change them

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constantly, but we're just acknowledging that okay, if you we use the specifically what we're given as a set time, here's a result, but with a little bit of allocation of green green time, it changes and works at acceptable level. In reality, it happens all the

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time. It really if you go out there and measure a signal you'll never get the same cycle length or the same green time every cycle because it is looking at you know what what the need is for that cycle and what it is for that particular movement. >> Yep.

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>> Thank you. >> Okay. Are there any other questions? >> [cough] [clears throat] >> Okay. If not, I'll consider a motion. >> Move to approve PC7. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second to approve. We have any objections?

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Hear none. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Oppos like sign. Motion carries. Before we move on to item PC8, I did want to provide some clarification from what was mentioned earlier by Mr. Williams

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regarding the minutes that were approved back in May. It appears that Mr. Divine, he has been removed and it has been corrected from the minutes. However, Mr. Williams attended the morning portion of the PC for the workshop and Mr. Divine attended the afternoon portion of the workshop. So that's why there was that

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confusion, but it has been corrected. >> Thank you. Item PC8 is PTE 267866, a zoning amendment in the name of Chanzup LLC, Chanzup MPD master plan unit development for a reszoning request from an AR agricultural residential

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district to an MPD master plan unit development district to allow for the development of 96 platted town units and associated infrastructure in southeast Pasco County south of Chansy Road approximately 777 feet east of the Chansy Road and Gallup Boulevard

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intersection containing approximately 20.42 acres by staff >> right on top of >> She's done. [laughter] [laughter] >> Yeah. >> You thought you were getting married

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next weekend? [laughter] >> The gods are angry. Kurt. >> Good afternoon, planning commission members. Agenda item PTE 267866 is the Chanzep MPD. This [clears throat] is a reasonzoning

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request from an AR agricultural residential district and MPD master plan development for the maximum development of 96 platted town home units located within the East Market area within Commissioner Oakley's district.

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It's immediately abuing south of Chansy Road and east of Crystal Springs Road. Our zoning currently retains AR agricultural residential. The future land use here is res 9 which

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permits the sought density without amendment. This equates to a requested density of 4.7 dwelling units per gross acre. It's our context map to visually orient ourselves. This is approximately a mile and a half south of the Zephr Hills

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Municipal Airport and it meets the criteria of LDC section 605. This is within permissible land uses a hold harmless agreement has been codified within the conditions of approval and a self-imposed maximum building

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height of 35 ft. LDC section 605 permits up to 60 ft. Here's our MPD master plan. Illustrated are the vehicular access points north, south, and west connecting

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to Crystal Springs Road. A vehicular connection does not immediately access Chansancy Road. Here's our binding concept plan along Chansy. The applicant is developing a 10-ft multi-use path, and in red are portions required of the development.

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and green are off-site creditable portions of that same 10- foot multi-use path. Further or likewise, Crystal Springs Road is being developed with a 5-ft sidewalk with creditable and offsite offsite creditable portions and

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developer obligation portions of that roadway. The binding concept plan allows for front and rear loaded town hall products. The light pink color is where residences are proposed and town home units are adequately

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buffered along both Crystal Springs Road and Chanse by varying landscape buffer types D1, D3, and B. The applicant requested variation from 901.6D as The um request here is

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the eastern most on-site acreage of the property is home to an extensive category 1 wetland system which prevents a vehicular connection. PTE is amanable to the request as it accomplishes the intentability C-section 901.6.3.11. PTE requests approval to the board of

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county commissioners with the conditions provided. I'm available should you have any questions. >> Got some more questions for you. >> Try questions. >> So Chansy and 301 a.5 is a delay VC of 0.9 and after the project it'll go it's supposed to

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increase 124.3 and a VC of capacity. Um I believe 120 or 104 seconds is still F weight. So it looks like you know there's some scheduled improvements for 301 and they're just talking about but none of those improvements have been obvious responsible for fixing problems at the same time it's not going there.

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are um you know will this will this project still satisfy the package is used even if they aren't eventually funded >> the VC ratio is above will be above the sector sector is program but like you said it's not fit >> so I wouldn't again for

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[laughter] it was already moving >> William Vermillion reluctantly called from the shadows [laughter] so what Mr. said we the LDC doesn't offer staff require mitigation of existing efficiencies of the roadway like we see here particular around 301 I think another thing to point out is that

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for 301 is a completed by dot and it's number one priority on the long range transportation plan which while last time if the plane commissioner PD that was heard here it's right across the street from springs and which see that when a project is number one on a list the county is not very good at getting to be able to secure the funding to

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implement that design that's what PD is hoping happens here Um roughly the project at its PMP peak trip makes up two 2.5% capacity of the network which is again why we wouldn't require mitigation of a project and set up that kind of capacity there. Interesting enough as as far as

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transportation is concerned Crystal Springs right now is a uh is a substandard road for the county. Copy to the south is improving Crystal Springs up. Actually if you go to map it be easier if I if I point this out. Essentially the the cobblestone impud

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they've already begun improvements and construction plans of Crystal Springs work from south to north as they get to the first access point of Gagy PTE and the Gagy imputed to improve Crystal Springs from where cobblestone is off all the way to Chanse. However, in working with Mr. couch and Miss

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Willhead. On this project, we have a fail safe in plate, a fail safe in case um something was to go ary. You know, Gagy didn't get funding, they weren't able to construct, they didn't get board approvals. This project acts as a fail safe for the county to get improvements

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to Crystal Springs Road to get residents out to Chanse, which capacity is fine. >> Did you say you needed a map? >> Yeah, I was hoping to explain it with a map. >> Yeah, Can we get it up there? Just I'm throwing I'm throwing a lot of location criteria out there at everybody.

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>> All right. Be helpful. >> Ju just GIS just mappers. Fine. >> Trying to help you out there, William. >> I think I did pretty well without a map. >> Yeah. So we can see the uh that east oh the

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the east west bifurcating road which connects Crystal Springs to 301. That's the northernmost terminus of the cobblestone impud's obligation to construct Crystal Springs. So Gagy would be constructing north from there to

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Chanse. And in the event um gagy is unable to construct for a multitude of different reasons, Chanzep acts as a nice fail safe. And a reason for that is a project of this size per the LDC would only be required to pay a

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proportional share usually um which would be in the amount of $350,000. And what the county worked out with Barbara and and Mr. couches in lie of the proportional share payment if Gagny is able to construct that they would do the mill and resurface work instead of the

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proportional share and county staff felt like that was a better outcome for the residents of the area instead of a proportional share going to the county and waiting on us to be able to get the funding together. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean we like to see work actually done as opposed just [clears throat] money being thrown around.

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>> Um were you finished with that? >> Yes, sir. So, while you're up there, the the multi-use path and sidewalk um it looks like that multi-use and sidewalk's not feasible. Then they're just completely off the hook or do they still have to

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pay doesn't look like they have to pay any mitigation? >> Certainly. The reason that we came up with that language is for the typical section for Crystal Springs, the multi-use path is on the west side of the road >> and the sidewalk is on the eastern

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portion. I believe in the conditions the sidewalk no matter what on their side is always going to be mandatory but when we were doing the uh the discovery process and learned that it could be difficult for them to be constructing on the other side of the road the multi-use path that that might not be feasible which is the

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reason that we wrote the the conditions that way as well as um the applicant having to acquire the rightway. >> Okay. So, so that's correct. They if it's not feasible then they don't have to pay in to

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mitigate that or mitigate that in some other way. >> Uh for that portion um they would still be required and in in the event that this road is complete they would still be required to pay their proportional share um to the county which would help us to then uh reimburse the construction

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either here or the the mobilities mobility fee district as a whole. >> Um okay. It also mentions that um this will be working with the separate uh Chanzip. Is that how you pronounce it? Chanzep Npod

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that's nearby to do some of these improvements. So um I mean uh if that MPD doesn't happen, are these still going to happen? >> Sure. >> Yeah, we we have a great uh double fail safe here for the improvements to

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happen. Best case scenario for everybody is Gagny constructs the road which includes the multi-use path sidewalk and then we get a proportional share um from this development to go in to fund other projects. Worst case scenario, the county ends up with mill and resurface

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of the road via this development and sidewalk construction on their side as well as 10-ft multi-use path construction on the north side along Chansy which takes you to the existing pedestrian uh facilities at Chansy and 301. >> Okay. So it doesn't hinge on the the other MPD which is what I was kind of

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concerned about. Okay, that's all I had. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Hey Marva will I will defer. Let's listen to public comment. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you Marva.

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>> The first individual I have signed up to speak is a Miss Laura Daffer. After that, we have Miss Michaela Krauss. >> Okay. >> Hello. My name is Laura Gaffer and I live at 38935 County Line Road, Zephr Hills, Florida. But in actuality, I live

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in Crystal Springs. And I don't have very much to say today because I spoke last time and um I felt I feel like my words fell on deaf ears. But I did

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take pictures yesterday of this area and so Patty, if you can bring up some of these pictures. This is Old Crystal Springs Road. >> This is what it looks like like like I say yesterday. And I wish I had better

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tech technical [cough and clears throat] skills. Um, I actually took 30 pictures starting with um the Crystal Springs um um area. The the the the park.

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>> Is that the same road there? That the same road. >> Yeah, that's the same that's the same road. That's Crystal Springs Road. That's what it looks like right now. Actually, today I couldn't even come on that road because it was closed for improvements. I will tell you the number

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of houses that are going up on that road, it's not going to be enough. The the road I don't see how and I believe in miracles, but I just don't

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see how the road can keep up with the houses that are already there. And right, we've been in a drought, but we also have flooding. And two things can be true at the same time.

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[clears throat] So, I'm asking you not to approve this um this amendment. >> I'm trying to understand what what are you trying to show me with >> Okay. What I'm trying to show you is how

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bad it already is right now. got them on my computer. Just I just pictures of that road. >> It's a road that's under construction. >> Yeah. >> About when it's finished. >> Well, when that finished

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those houses will be able to come out onto Old Crystal Springs. The food traffic will be able to come out on Old Crystal Springs Road if it's not really underwater. See how it's underwater right now? >> Well, that's because they're under construction.

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Yeah, the storm drainage hasn't been completed yet on the >> they won't be able to leave it like that. They have to design I mean just talking to engineers up here. They have to roads that don't end up in that situation. >> I wish I could believe you. I believe

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these roads too. >> So okay well it's completed. They haven't even finished the final green. See on the edutters brought up to the gutter that is going to carry that water away when this is finished. >> But Mr. Moody, where is the water going

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to go? >> It's going to go in a storm water treatment system as required by Florida law. Because before they started work there, you know, okay,

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the water came up. >> I understand that. >> Yeah, that was a 500 year storm. So, look at this. They have to allow for that. And that's why I have engineers that designed these developments. And you got about four of them are up here that answer question.

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They do that work every day. So, so maybe after meeting and explain to me why it looks like this what right now and then it's it's going to be it's going to be okay. You're telling me it's going to be okay.

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>> All the pictures that we see it looks like is they're under construction either being widened or in this case brand new. The point the point that I was trying to make is it's under construction, but it's already there's already so many houses being

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built that the it needs to be four lane to keep up with the houses that are already there. >> Jamie, do you have something to say? >> All right. Well, thank you.

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Is there anybody else? The last individual for public comment signed up is Miss Michaela Krauss. >> I'm going to need you to give your name and address again. Michaela Krauss, 35920, Praise Place, Unit 102, Zephr Hills,

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Florida 33541. I have sworn. Good afternoon, planning commissioners. I'm a resident here today to strongly urge you to deny this zoning amendment with Chanze Zeb LLC. I find that the owner is inconsistent with the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan and Land Development

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Code. Under Pasco County Land Development Code, chapter 300, section 303.1, factor B, exhibit B, the conditions of approval in your agenda packet. Um, I find as a resident that it lacks the

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required owner signature on page 15. Second. >> Oh, hold on. Can you slow down because I got to get to this in my packet. >> Yes, sir. >> Somebody tell me what sheet in our packet she's referring to. >> The acknowledgement

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exhibit B, the conditions of approval. >> Okay. Well, let me ask you something. >> Yes. >> Why would they be acknowledging the conditions of approval if we haven't approved the conditions of approval yet? Okay. These are proposed conditions of approval.

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We might suggest that they get changed. The board of county commissioners may suggest that they get changed. They'll sign and acknowledge the conditions after they've been agreed upon by the body that approves the project. Okay? So

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that is not a reason to come up here and deny because you think they should have signed the conditions that are merely draft conditions at this point. You need to understand the process. >> Yes sir. >> Second severe access management and

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traffic safety hazards. The proposed access configuration fails to satisfy comprehensive plan chapter 7 objective TRA 1.2 2 and policy trial 1.2.2 for access management standards as well

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as the LDC chapter. >> And that says what? >> You're claiming that it doesn't meet that standard. What does the standard say and why does this project not meet it? >> Yes. Um so it it installs for the county

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to make sure like the access management points are safe. Um, and I do have more. I can back that up. >> So, again, I'm going to ask you, you're a registered professional engineer. >> I'm a concern. >> You're a traffic engineer. So, how would

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you know whether or not the distance between access points is safe? >> I checked um some of the maps. We also have >> You do you think that the applicant was dumb enough to come here today

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without bringing a traffic expert? I read them all. It was a big packet. >> Yeah. And do you think that expert's here and is going to refute everything you say? >> Well, I'd like I'd hope they would. I'm just a concerned res. >> No, you're what you're claiming is that this does is not consistent with that

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plan. There's a difference between being a concerned resident and coming up here anding that the proposal before us is inconsistent with the comprehensive plan. If you're going to testify that it's inconsistent, you better have a reason. >> Yes. >> So, what's the reason? >> Yes.

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Um, so the speed, so I also wanted to back that up with uh land development code chapter 900 section 901.3. The proposed speed limit on this corridor is 45 miles per hour. But in actuality, traffic

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flows much faster with vehicles and heavy tractor trailers frequently exceeding 90 miles an hour. Um, adding high density. >> Do you have any proof of that? >> Yes. driving is so Paul Butchman, there's I4 and then there's 301.

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>> How do you know they're exceeding 90 miles an hour? >> Are you going to present me radar data or some kind of speed camera data that shows they're going 90 miles an hour or are you just speculating that?

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>> Yes, I am speculating that because I have I do not have radar data. >> Speculation is an evidence. >> Okay. Yes. Um And I did uh so this you know adding high density access at this location it

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does create extreme sight distance and collision risk. Um I did formally flag this. >> What sight distance is required? >> The site distance. >> Yes. The site distance. >> I did not. >> You've read the DOT green book where the required sight distance is specified.

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Correct. >> I do not have >> that's what I thought. So then you're speculating that the site distance is not met. Do you understand that one of the things that

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when they go to get a development approval is that they have to demonstrate that they have proper sight distance at their access point. You understand that that's in our land development code. They're required to prove that. They don't get a permit until they've demonstrated that,

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>> which all happens after this body makes a decision. By the way, >> zone zoning. >> You know, I think one of the things that a lot of people don't understand when they come here for the first few times is that we this isn't the final decision. This is only to decide whether

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that particular use is appropriate for property pending a lot of other decisions. So this is just the one step this whole series of steps that people have to take to in order to use the property. So we appreciate your input, but we we're trying to educate you as to

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what's required. >> I understand to make these decisions. I understand that the last time we were in this room, I told you and the group you were with that if you want to come here and claim something is inconsistent with the comprehensive plan, you needed to come here and tell me what policies or

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what land development code sections they're inconsistent with. But you cannot speculate as to whether or not they are consistent or inconsistent. Okay? And you have to understand the context in which those particular policies are written or those land

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development code regulations are written. Okay? You can't come up here if you're not a qualified expert. You come up here and talk to me about site dis and storm water drainage. You can't tell concern. Okay? You want to come up here and say this is going to cause flooding. Well,

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you better have an analysis. Oo is that. >> I know my time's up. mark this location on the safe streets Pasco map because there have been many fatalities here. Um, and then I just wanted to, you know, say under Florida statute section

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163.3194 development orders must conform to the adopted comprehend that it's consistent with the comprehensive plan. >> Yes, sir. Thank you. >> All right, Michaela. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. I' I've said this before, many times

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before this body, but I say it again for the benefit of the audience and and those that are coming up. We are the body that weighs the rights of two different parties. The parties of the public that surround the property and the the rights of the property owner. And so it works just like that's

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why it's called a quasi judicial hearing. It works just like it would in court. So, if someone's on trial for murder and you have evidence to prove that they are guilty of that offense, you have to come up and present that direct evidence. You can't come up and speculate, come up and say, "Well, they

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violated this statute." And you say, "Well, how did they violate it?" And you say, "Well, I I I just think they did." So when when you start making allegations against someone else's rights at the right of the property owner, you have to have that qualified competent evidence to to prove that

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still act as a citizen and and bring those bring the issues up and then we can hash that out. But again, if you're citing statutes, you're citing code, you need to have the better qualified evidence to present.

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>> Okay. All right. Was there anybody else on the list? >> No. >> Is there anybody here to speak that didn't have an opportunity? >> Miss Williams. >> No, I was just going to point the Miss Hazel one to

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>> Who is it? Who's going to be >> Whoa. [laughter] >> She looks familiar. >> Never seen her before. >> No. >> Yeah. And I haven't >> She's the award winner. She got the planning award. >> She can't talk today. All right. >> NC Hazwood 341101101

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place. So I think we've all noticed in the past that even with our roads being redone and rebuilt, they are still having problems. And this is just an observation from a citizen.

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But it's too bad this can't be a put on hold till that road is done first and has the amount of traffic that's going to go on it today checked out because we've had a lot of problems and then we can take a look at and say well what

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needs to be done for this new project. >> So >> thank you. >> I don't necessarily disagree with you but the legislature of this state did away with concurrency. All right. That's what used to happen. >> And oh well that's that's the other problem. >> And the elected representatives of the

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state decided we're not going to do that anymore and we're going to have a pay as you go system which is what we have. >> Well that's the other >> and the problem is we don't collect the payment until the traffic's already on the road. >> I was going to kind of asked that we change the way we do things. Well, I I

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don't disagree with you, but that's not something >> that this board gets to decide. >> But, you know, that's something to talk to our state senators and state legislators and >> our county's lobbyists and

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>> if you can get an appointment with them. Right. >> I understand that. >> Okay. But I I I just need my two cents. >> That's why we have an intersection. It's already exceeding these thresholds already before this development even comes online. This development,

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>> the public has a a a big misunderstanding about how how and when improvements to roadways get done >> and they're all, you know, I see all the comments out on Facebook, you know, we

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need to have all the roads first. Well, there was a system like that. That system doesn't exist. It's not Pasco County's fault that that system's gone. We didn't make it go away. State did it. >> So what we need to do is when our state representatives come to the legislative

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meeting, we all need to show up and say, "Hey, can you do this?" And >> All right. And yeah, and then there's there was arguments against concurrency. Okay. Rancher A who lives 20 miles from nowhere wants to build the next Sun City

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and he's got to widen some little cow path state away from two to six lanes to accommodate his new sun city and rancher B who lives next door sits around and laughs at rancher A after he gets done paying a billion dollars to widen the road >> he comes in oh look there's plenty of

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capacity on this road for money they don't have to pay a thing >> other problem which directly affects you encouraged development in the rural areas because that's where all the capacity was. [clears throat] [snorts] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's probably even more important. >> Yes. And we need more rules and

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regulations written for the northeast area plant >> and uh that was what I was going to kind of speak about earlier and then I managed to get here later instead of earlier. But yes, I thank you for your indulgence.

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>> That's that's the nature of government, right? That's how the code book gets to be this big. One rule requires another. [clears throat] >> All right, Nancy. Thank you very much. >> Okay, Barbara.

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>> Barbara Will height 6320 Boulevard for the notes and you all addressed everything that came up. Um, so I don't have anything to add. Jeremy Cal is here, our project engineer. Can we just send you the bill for our time or? >> Yes. [laughter]

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>> Yes. So, we have I have our traffic engineer, Steve Henry, and Jeremy Coucher, project engineer, if you have any specific questions. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Any questions for Jeremy or you going to hold him off the hook? I'll let him I'll let him go. [laughter]

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>> Okay. I think we've gone through that one pretty thoroughly. Any further questions or concerns? If not, hear a motion. >> Move to recommend approval of item PC8. >> Second.

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>> Further discussion? Not. All in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Oppos. Like sign. >> Okay. >> The last item on the agenda is AP10. You'll be sitting as a local planning

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agency for this one. It's PD260949, an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, amending section 403.5 construction plan, section 403.7 mass grading, section 901.6 street design and

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dedication requirements. Section 905.2 two, landscaping and buffering and other sections as necessary for internal consistency, providing for applicability, repealer, providing for separability and inclusion to the land development code, and an effective date to be presented by staff.

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>> All right. Thank you. I think the staff just left. Oh, there we go. [laughter] >> The experts did. >> Yeah, the experts. >> Good afternoon, everybody. Tammy Snder, Planning, Development, and Economic Growth. Hope y'all are doing great. It's been a hot minute since I've been up

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here. [laughter] >> Um, yeah. Yeah. I'm here to present a few proposed land development code changes for construction traffic, wooden bridges, and landscape and buffering. The first one um is it's going to be the

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same for both 4035 and 4037 construction plans and mass grading. So, we want everybody for u who's doing these projects to try to stay off the local roads if at all possible. Um they need to go to the arterial or collector

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roads first if they if they need to use a local road to get there. You know, try to do the shortest route. Um, but we are going to stress that they need to use the arterials or collectors if a local road is um the only way that

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they can get around um then they need and if there's a school zone on that local road, we're going to also make them coordinate with the school board and um the local school to um uh avoid the drop off and pickup

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times. >> Thank you. their their big trucks aren't going to be impeding that traffic. >> Thank you for that. >> You're welcome, Chris. >> Um, and there's not going to be any staging on local roads. U, we want them to also keep them debris free daily,

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sweeping or watering, whatever is necessary. Um, and repair any um, road issues that they have caused when they're done with their construction. Um, if non-compliance is observed, then we can make them uh erect signage.

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We can have a stop work order issued. We can also have them employ an offduty law enforcement officer to turn their trucks around and go the other way. Here's just a sample um a snip from Mapper proposed project site. We have

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Kitten Trail, a collector on the north. We have Hudson Avenue, a collector on the south. this project right in between them. So, it does have to use local roads to get to one of those. Um, and since there is a school, the preferred route would be to the north to Kitten

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Trail. If for some reason that route was not there, they would have to go south to Hudson Avenue. Then the since they're going through the school zone, we would make them coordinate with the school board. uh proposed amendment to LDC 9016 street design and dedication requirements. We

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want to prohibit um wooden bridges on all roadways within unincorporated Pasco County. Does not affect any existing wooden bridges. You know, it's kind of a going forward type regulation. Um just basic facts about the difference

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between wooden bridges and concrete. you know, surface for the wood is 7 to 10. Concrete, um, 14 to 15. You know, a concrete bridge could last about 50 years. Wooden you're lucky to get 25 years out of. Um, you know, you can do

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all kinds of really cool things with concrete as well. You can make it look like wood if you're so inclined. Um, proposed amendment to 905.2, landscaping and buffering. Uh we're just revising some tables and subsections for clarity and consistency, closing some

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loopholes um and giving street trees a separate subsection and making them a requirement rather than just an option. The first table you come to in 9052 is 9052-8.

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And that's the one where um if somebody is redeveloping, remodeling or renovating an existing structure, then we have different tiers of um landscaping and things that they must bring up to current code.

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Um but ex um adding a building to that site was somehow not involved in this table and that created some confusion. Um some developers thought that they didn't have to do some of this other stuff to their site if they were adding a building. They just had to do things

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around the building that they were adding. Um, so seeing as how those new buildings will increase the value of their property, we also want them to follow the same structure. >> Tammy, >> I caught this in my review of the

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ordinance, >> if you're building a new building, which one of these three things do I have to do? because these things are based on how much renovation I'm doing to the appraised value of a existing building, >> right? >> So, how do how does the new building fit

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in that which which category am I in? >> Well, it depends on if you're a car dealers and you're just adding a little building, it's not going to hit any sort of value building that you've already got going on. Um, so you 50%, >> but you're trying to say that value of the new building in relation to the value of the existing building >> existing structure.

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>> Well, that's not how I'm and I apologize. I don't mean to sound argumentative. That's not how I read it, but I'm guessing maybe help us fix it. I mean the value of the the work associated with the exist the renovated structures. >> The question is in the case of a new building being added

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>> existing building that makes sense. We look at the value of building and then is there >> about the new buildings. So how do we apply the level of landscaping that I have to do is based on this table was based on the assumption

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that you were renovating and doing a project that was a certain percent of the value of the existing building. How do we apply that when doing a new building? I guess your question is the as far as

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applying the 75% and the 51 to 75 whether it's >> Yes sir based on appraisal of the building value not the land >> I guess I don't know what staff I don't know what they're trying to say you take value everything and apply 7% to that >> the property value of the structures

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but what we're trying to do you're look at you're going to look at renovating endings you look at the value all that together and say does it take 75% of all that together >> I will get from Patrick >> would it make sense for everything

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but um building why isn't one just always building >> it buildings um >> if necessarily building why don't you just improve the area around the new building and so we're trying to capture the rest of the

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>> applies to a new building. How's it by being thrown into the calculation of the percentage the church whether it applies to the >> that's a good clarification on that >> example because that they're trying to close. >> Okay. >> I have plans the church the church has been on their property since ' 69 since

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before we had zoning since before we had any required building code or site plans. [clears throat] The church wanted to build a 3,000 foot Sunday school building on their site and they went in and met with staff and they were told you land. You need to modify your entire site to our code and bring

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all the site up to the code there. They've been there since 1969. The only thing they wanted to do was move their Sunday school classes from inside their main building to the building and they were told now you have to install landscape buffers around 5 acres. You need to landscape your parking lot. You need to cut lands into your park. You

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need to modify your accesses. And then there is the Sunday school basketball. >> So was this the view of work associated, redeveloped, remodeled, renovated new structure. Therefore, we did not trigger any of the things. >> But I guess my question is the new

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structure is the new structure not required landscape. We agreed that the new structure so the part of the land code to a structured building perimeter landscaping which is a little gap strip around 50% of the building and the client agreed to adhere that and is landscaping the building in accordance

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with the code. What this would do after you get the formula fixed would force somebody doing that you have to install landscape buffers around the entire property. Mind you there so that's hundreds of thousands of dollars. Well, I

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>> the dispute is is Was there any dis whether the code requires landscaping new Sunday school? No, >> there was no dispute that there was landscaping installed around the new Sunday school building. The dispute was whether or not of the existing site needed to be fit to comply with today's code

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>> and the rest of the existing site was not being improved at all. >> Correct. And so in this example, if the rest of the site was worth $100,000 and you're installing a $25,000 building, the trigger is 25 to 50% under >> I don't know because they haven't

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explained how this table was set up such that we're looking at the value of a compared to the value of a building. Okay? When we're adding a new building >> and comparing it to what? It's not a renovation. It's not a remodel. It could

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be fixed. I think David's a crafty guy and can come up with some >> good language to fix this >> to if they if that's a loophole they want to close. >> But I would tell you before we agree to do that, understand the ramifications. Take a civic organization

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that is doing a minor project. This would force them into landscape code in whole >> or they could apply for an alternative standard. >> I was going to ask if there's any other administrative relief from this, >> but of course then what's the point? >> What's the point at that? Right? If

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that's what we're going to do, then what's the point? >> And then and then the people are going to say, "Oh, well, oh, well, you treated them differently from me." >> Right? >> Well, because I could see the flip side of it's a a shack that's on a property and they build this Taj Mahal next to

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it. Well, this is included in the any of it. >> Right. And then the other thing that I would tell you that is not fair about this, and I'm not pointing fingers at staff because you guys don't assess the value of buildings. I can go and pull up the property appraisers records in a

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neighborhood today, brand new subdivision built by Dr. Horton and Lenar, and I can have two identical model homes right next door to each other, and the building value on one home will be different from the building value on the home right next door. >> Also true.

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It's a very subjective value. >> Okay. I I guess what I know, and the reason it's hard for me to assist with the drafting of this, is because I don't know what the policy directive was. I don't know if the policy directive was to

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subject sort of un buildings that aren't being touched in any way, shape, or form to having to be landscaped. I was that the policy directive? >> I apologize. I don't know. I don't know

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what exactly spurred this. I wasn't involved that far back. >> Who was the person that >> Patrick? >> Patrick. >> Patrick. >> Yeah. >> Well, then I need I kind of need Patrick to tell me what his intent was. I I can't help

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>> draft without >> knowing the intent. [laughter] You want to continue? >> Well, the planning expert though, not the LDC expert. >> Well, that's >> I mean, is he available on from I understand he's on vacation or

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something? >> Yeah, seminar. >> He's in training >> conference, I think he called it. >> Oh, training. That's right. He said he was in training. >> [snorts] >> I mean, the other reason I'm a little concerned about this is I don't know. I

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mean, I don't know the limits of this. I I don't know. >> I think we all believe it's important to get it right. So, I'd rather >> continue it until Patrick's here if that's >> if that's a key. >> I mean, the the because it is based on

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value. So, you in theory could have Hypothetically, you could have a very small building that just has [clears throat] happened to have an extreme value for whatever reason. It's goldplated, >> right? >> But it's small. It's a small building, but then it requires the because it's so

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valuable the property requires somebody to landscape 100 acres of property. >> Is Patty sitting on? >> So, I don't know if that was really the intent, >> right? Yes. And so >> somebody needs to help me out here. I don't know what the goal was.

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>> Patty, can you send Patrick an invite? >> He's He's at a conference. >> No, he he just said he asked you to send him an invite. He he wants to he's going to call in. >> Oh. Oh, okay. Cool. >> Wow. [snorts] >> He's not paying attention in class.

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[laughter] >> He's texting Jamie. [clears throat] >> Well, he's already the expert, so [laughter] >> [snorts] [clears throat] >> Patrick, can you hear us? >> I can. Can you hear me? >> Yeah. >> Welcome back. >> All right. Yeah. Sorry about that. Today

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Today was a graduation day from uh CPM. >> So, sorry. Sorry to bother you, Patrick. Have you been listening to any of this conversation or now? >> I have. Um, and it's breaking up a little bit, so feel free to flag me if

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you can't hear me. Um, but essentially what what has been happening, uh, and I think John gave a a an example, I guess, but different context. Um, we have existing sites where the value of that building itself is, let's say, very low.

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It's a unimproved building. It's maybe it's like $10,000. Then someone comes in and adds a $250,000 building to the site and they point at this table and say, "Well, no, no, no. We don't have to give you all the

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perimeter buffering to the site because this is not an existing building that we're redeveloping or remodeling or re renovating. So, they're essentially redeveloping their site, adding at least a significantly large building to their site um and not really bringing it up to

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uh standard in terms of like perimeter landscaping. So, that's the loophole we were trying to fix. So Patrick, I I guess my only concern with it though is that it does make some sense if if you're saying, okay, well, somebody

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was, you know, you in a scenario where, okay, the new building would have made them landscape 75% of the site anyway, and they just don't want to landscape the remaining 25%. My concern though is the way it's worded though, you could

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have a scenario that somebody's building a highly valuable tiny building that just it just happens to be really valuable. say it's goldplated for whatever reason and it occupies a quarter acre,

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but then they have, you know, a bunch of remaining property that is maybe lower valued that's 50 50 acres and then you're saying you got to landscape the rest of it because of this really highly

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valuable quarter acre. it I mean there's no limits to what it's all based on value. It's not based on the percentage of the site that they were otherwise landscaping. You you mentioned size before. Would it

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be better to look at the >> I mean I I don't know if there's I mean >> if you're saying that you're just trying to catch a loophole where somebody's trying to avoid, [cough]

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you know, landscaping a small portion of their site that because it's they're not touching it. That makes some sense, but I I don't the way this is worded, I'm not sure that's the only

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thing you're catching. >> Understood. Um I again I have no issue if we want to kind of strike this one from these updates and maybe re-evaluate it. Um this wasn't necessarily commissioner driven. Um in all honesty, I I this this was an attempt to get

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redeveloping sites and redevelopment commercial properties to install more landscaping. that I think uh the the board discretion these days is is looking to be less restrictive on small businesses. So I think uh for those two reasons I think this is maybe something

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we kind of uh take back and tweak and maybe move forward with the rest of the 9052 changes. >> Ju just a suggestion it may be better to look instead of looking at value look at use. So maybe if it's an ancillary

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building, it's ancillary to the main use of the property, then it may not apply. But if it's not going to be considered ancillary use, it's a new use or a greater use of the property, that might be when this may be triggered. That might be something that >> also if you're going to use value uh

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having done a lot of appraisal work over my years in the business um it in this particular case it would make more sense to use replacement cost value rather than market value. >> Correct. >> Rather than the property appraisers

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value. >> Right. The property appraisers value is not always representative accurately representative of the market value or replacement value of a property. At least in my experience, it's not. And it can w it can vary

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wildly to two very similar properties in this in the same location. >> Well, especially if it's been held for a long time. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, again, if you put a put up a property with a goldplated bathroom, then you know that could replacement

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cost is going to be more than their market market price, >> right? >> Because a lot of people wouldn't pay market for that. >> And while we have Patrick, Patrick, can I ask you a question about the wooden bridges? >> Sure. >> So, one, I'm not opposed to the proposed

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amendment, but you had called me months, I don't know, four or five months ago just to pick my brain about wooden bridges. And I remember the conversation. And I told you at one I wasn't a bridge expert, but if I recall the situation, you told me you had a CDD

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or an HOA that was complaining about the maintenance costs of a wooden bridge. >> Was that >> uh yeah, we've we've to this point we've had uh a few I believe and they've not all come through me. I think they've come through the county attorney's

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office uh public works. Um, but I I so I I don't know directly. I don't know which CDDs they are. Well, I do know what CDDs they are, but they haven't those complaints didn't come directly to me, but there were a few of them. Yes. >> Gotcha. So, I was shocked when I read

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the language of the proposed amendment. It just prohibits the wooden bridges on a county road, but if it was going to be a privately maintained road, such as by a CDD, then you could still have a wooden bridge. So, I was trying to figure out what was the point.

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>> Tammy, is is that um updated language from what we were working on this week? >> Um it it's part of the agenda packet, but it it does say that if it's completely privately owned that they may get special permission from the county administrator or designate. That was

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Elizabeth's language. >> Okay. Um so uh well our intent was to say no outright but if someone wants to apply for an alternative standard and they can justify you know at the end of the day

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it's maintenance cost right so there and I don't want to suggest ways to accomplish that but if they can provide um an alternative standard with their application that somehow proves that the maintenance cost of the wooden bridge is not going to be significant or a

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detriment um that's something we we would consider. Uh we didn't necessarily want it to be an outright complete prohibition on wooden bridges because in some instances maybe that's that's all that there >> there there's available. >> Well then okay. So then that brings me >> your comment brings me to a follow-up

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question since when does the staff evaluate the on&m cost? There's nothing in our code about O andM costs and wh when when does the staff evaluate the on andm cost

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to an HOA or to a CDD. So for instance, um it's kind of standard in my industry to specify reinforced concrete pipe, but the builders and the developers all want to use plastic pipe because they can in sometimes buy it cheaper and install it

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faster. does the county doesn't go in and say, "Well, we think the O andM cost of that plastic pipe is different from this RCP pipe, or we think that variety of sod you've specified takes more or less maintenance than this variety of sod that you've specified. Why should we

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pick on a wooden bridge?" >> Yeah, understood. And and that's again why I said our answer in the outright is going to be no. So no wooden bridges unless you the applicant can prove to us uh through whatever method you want. Maybe you can provide data. Maybe you

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have some you know methods of >> I guess what I'm asking is why are we you're worried about the operation and maintenance cost of a wooden bridge but yet we're not worried about the operation and maintenance cost of any other piece of infrastructure in a

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development. What makes a wooden bridge different from any other piece of infrastructure? >> David, >> I think it's the reoccurrence. >> Let me let me let me interrupt you for a second. Uh Patrick uh David, did you have something to say? >> Hey, Patrick. Uh David Engel, planning

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and economic development director. This is Patrick Dutter's agenda item, but I may want to give you some context. So, uh, we've had several CDDs that have wooden bridges and and spans in their within their development and they they

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don't like to maintain them. And what's happened is looking at the the case history on these matters, uh, they're different. One is on a county road with a CDD maintained wooden bridge and one is a CDD road. They the developer controlled CDD in the front end of the

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project. they they decide to go in and install a timber bridge and then and then it's given to the CDD afterwards when the homeowners take over and they don't want to maintain it. So I believe in context that's how this thing even got percolating there at Patrick's

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group. >> Right. But what I'm getting at is what makes the bridge so different from anything else. Okay. The developer says, "I'm going to use this type of building to build the clubhouse that I'm going to turn over to the CDD or the HOA or the >> what? >> Yeah.

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>> The developer the developer installs all this infrastructure that he's going to build. Why are we picking on only the bridge? What about all the rest?" >> Carrie, you want to comment on that? >> Yeah. Victoria's PTO's planning development, economic growth. I think [clears throat] one of the main issues associated with

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the in particular I'll call it out as the wooden rangeland bridges. Um >> what kind? >> The wooden bridges on Rangeland Boulevard for I think that was probably the most famous example. It's been in the media of late. The issue with that bridge or those two bridges that are

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there for the east and westbound sides is the frequency of maintenance. The not only are the wooden boards warping quickly, um, but as they warp with every passing car, you hear the constant thudding of the of the planks slapping

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down on the ground with the passage of every car that goes by that. So there's a there was a whoanthop going on every single >> But is that just bad construction? And and >> that is the frequency of of fixing that. So every few weeks the bridges are shut down. one lane to shut down at a time

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and they're relaying the new >> Okay. So, I I know you haven't been here as long as I have. Has anybody gone and talked to the Florida DOT about the Sunshine Skyway Bridge and how much maintenance they've had to do on that and that it's not going to last? It's projected and there you go. It's a steel

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and concrete bridge and it costs billions and billions of dollars to build and it's under constant maintenance because the design >> actually I'm trying to be careful. I don't want to accuse anybody because I'm not a bridge expert, but they will tell

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you there were certain defects in the design and the construction of that bridge that led to all of the maintenance that they have to do to keep that bridge up. It's not a matter of whether it was wood, steel, or concrete. It was a matter of how it was designed. And you know, when Patrick called and

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asked me about this issue, I told him I was aware of a bridge that had probably been here 80, 90 years, and that would be the bridge out to Manor Beach Island. That's a wooden bridge. >> Yeah. >> In a marine environment, >> and how long's it been here? So, it's not necessarily the wood. But I think

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the the nuance difference between those two bridges, the Rangeland Bridge and the one that you're referencing is the fact that people live right in front of them. >> People live right on the >> Well, I'm just >> next to the bridge at Manor Beach Island. >> Frequency is the difference. I guess the point I'm trying to make is I can build

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a design a road, a private roadway, and a pothole can open up every other day in my poorly designed roadway and cause noise for the people who live adjacent to the street. It's not because the bridge is wood. It was because the

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bridge was maybe not designed or built properly or maybe the CDD is not properly maintaining it. I don't know what the CDD does and I don't know anything about that bridge, but I just hate to see us throw This seems to me like a case of throwing the baby out

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with the bathwater and for and it's and it's an edge case. It's this isn't every bridge in the county that we've got a problem on or a widespread problem. It's one particular area. And here's another thing, and I'm I'm

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going to be talking to our commission. Actually, I've been talking to our commissioners about this, and it's something I'm going to be pushing on as we go forward. We need to start taking the Rick Scott approach to our land development code.

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Right? When Rick Scott was governor of this state, he told the state agencies, "For every new regulation you propose, you need to find an old regulation and get rid of it." Our land development code in this county is over 1,500 pages

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long. The King James version of the Bible is only 1,200. War and Peace is only a thousand. Okay? And do you know how our code got this long? Because it's full of ad hoc reactions to something that somebody did that

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somebody else didn't like. And it has created a regulatory nightmare for those trying to get permits in this county. It's 1500. I practice all over the place and I can't tell you. Go down to Penllis County. Their land development code is

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not 1500 pages long. Hernando Countyy's is not 1500 pages long. Why does Pascos need to be longer than the Bible itself? We need to ask ourselves that. And I and again, I don't really care if

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we want to ban wooden bridges. I'm not involved in the design of wooden bridges, but it just really seems dumb. And all it does is make this land development code one more regulation bigger than and it doesn't necessarily need to.

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>> Okay. Tammy, you have anything to add to that? >> Can I make one minor comment to the paragraph? I'm not going to weigh in on whether to ban them or not, but [laughter] >> um I don't know what the intent is, but it says for those roadways privately owned.

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>> Just so we're clear, a CDD is not a private entity. >> Right. Right. >> So, I don't know if your intent if that includes CDDs or not, but if you're intending to include CDDs in that paragraph, they're not a private entity. >> Right. Now, we wanted to to keep it this

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way. So you don't want CDs included in that paragraph then. >> Is your intent to not include CDDs in that paragraph then? >> Right. >> Just to ban them in CDs. >> So then you so you only want that paragraph to apply to HOAs then

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>> right strictly private. >> So only HOAs then. >> Right. >> So CDDs would not be able to take advantage of that. Cor. Well, >> they could if if the CDD really wanted to install a wooden bridge on their

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public roadway, >> they would need an they would need an old standard though. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Right. They >> I just wanted to make sure that was your intent. >> Right. Right. Yeah. But we >> because CDs are not a private entity. I just want to make sure that was your intent. >> Right. >> You ever been to

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>> Okay. Main Street in Newport, Richie, over there by the post office. Isn't there a neighborhood with a oldfashioned Vermont style covered bridge going into a neighborhood? >> Just a really neat visual. >> Exactly.

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>> Do we want to deprive the public of opportunities like that? How long have the wooden bridges in Vermont been there? Again, how long has the bridge to Manor Beach Island been there? >> Hundreds of years. What's 90% of the

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railroad bridges made from? I'm not sure that it's the wood that's the problem. And then I'd ask you this. If a category four or five hurricane blew through here and blew out the bridge on Floramar Terrace to Gulf harbors and the people

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couldn't get in or out, I bet we'd rethink this real quick. You can build wood bridge a lot quicker. >> Anybody else have any comment? >> Well, can we get let Tammy finish her presentation? We only got through the

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one. I don't know if we let her finish. [snorts] Well, Patrick apparently dropped one of them. So, did we finish with all everything else, Tammy? >> No, we got a couple more to go. >> Okay. >> Just just quick ones, though. like this one um is just uh adding some

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[cough and clears throat] verbiage and replacing verbiage to be consistent with our updated development review manual that we're coming out with. So um we added understory to the ornamental tree section and we replaced shade palm with grand palm just for consistenc

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I'm trying to understand this whole concept of street trees. Are you is this requiring trees along trees along residential streets or trees at the entrances of subdivisions? >> Trees along residential streets. We haven't gotten that far yet.

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>> Okay. >> All right. So, it has been noted that the county needs more shade trees. Um, and we have been allowing folks to uh avoid utility conflicts and install understory

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um trees underneath the utilities. We're instead going to be asking them to go ahead and install those shade trees. Just stagger them back a little bit from being directly underneath power lines if they can. Of course, if they can't, then they can apply for an alternative

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standard, >> but we're trying to get the bigger trees. >> How do we determine whether they can or can't? >> They would they would show us, you know, if if if the power lines are running, you know, just outside their property line, then they can install some shade

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trees. Now, if the power lines are in the rightway, they can install some shade trees because it'd be on their property, be back from the power lines. if the power lines are over their property, you know, and they can apply for an alternative standard to go ahead and use under story trees if if they

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feel it is necessary. >> Okay. >> Um, and here we go with the uh table 905.2-C. This uh is the table that tells how many shade trees are required per residential

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lot. And because we are going to be requiring trees in residential subdivisions. Um, we figured that it would make more sense for the smaller lots of 6,000 square feet or less to just have one shade tree per lot and plant that one on the side of the back

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of it of the structure. The street tree would be acting as the front yard tree. also protects the front yard tree because it becomes an HOA tree as opposed to an individual resident tree which the state says they can just go

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ahead and take out if they want to. Um the HOA can't do that. So that's what we're proposing for the really small lots and that's the only change on this table. And excuse me 905.2D.1

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was revised to split out the street tree section to give them their own section. Um, and what was 905D2 um is now three. Um 905D23B5A removed the requirement for all

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landscaped islands to have at least one evergreen shade tree. Uh it's proposed to say 50% of the island shall be evergreen. Um but they're you know still required to all the shade just 50% have to do the evergreen variety

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and our water management systems the man-made systems are pretty much horrible looking. Um we're going to be trying to encourage a more natural look by requesting that developers group trees rather than fence posting them one

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every 50 feet and boom. We're going to say put a couple over here a few feet down the way put three. And I would do something like that that looks a little bit more natural than what we've got going on. >> Any questions?

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Any other questions? >> Tammy, I've got several questions. I I guess street trees, and I'm not anti- landscape, but street trees. Didn't we used to require street trees? I used a problem with street trees. Now we're putting street trees back in. Um I don't

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require trade trees. I know that they have been there have been occasional things but we have root barriers and things I noticed that requiring root bar areas to protect utilities and then you have a definition of utility not included. So a

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that we protect the cable TV fiber optic water and sewer and we don't care trees with the storm even though all the rest complaining about the unmaintained storm sewers figure out why sewers from that definition >> the other issue too street trees are

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hurt area more like block storm you know further further off is someone down the yard so serious issues are first respond storm I mean they're pretty along the street don't get [clears throat] me wrong but aside from the utility encroachment streets you have Exactly. >> I'm just concerned about problems that

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created with street trees more of the concern. Um you know John with the length code but every time we come here everything adds cost doesn't cost money cost more money >> right >> that's the end of the day everything just get more and more and more tax because that creates higher values for

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>> yeah it's a concern I mean yes it looks nicer I mean everybody would everybody love to drive down a can't be road to get to I don't know too many people that don't like that but to make it a mandatory requirement um it adds a cost to group

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we just got the dog cost HOA street trees in there I mean long leaf I mean well >> by the way $100 for my papa my the tree dug up my papers [laughter]

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the same thing >> plant a tree behind plant between the back of the curb and the face of the sidewalk and then 5 years later your sidewalk the Americans with Disabilities Act because the tree roots have pushed it up or the tree roots have destroyed the curb and now I've got my tree because there's gutter

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has been destroyed by the tree roots but >> kind of tree they plant >> well I if you plant palm trees at all >> yeah that's >> I know as flidians are enamored with live oak trees but we cannot plant a

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monoculture of live oak trees either. >> Okay, there are lots of species of trees that Florida and you know some people only they think the only looks good is a live oak tree, you know, but yet the state tree is the sable pal meadow. Go figure.

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And that sable paw meadow isn't going to have roots big enough to tear up a sidewalk. >> Just be glad it's not a banyan tree. >> I got one of them a project right now. more magnolia >> and those plugorn sewers when they drop all their >> le.

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>> So, do you guys wish to anything moving on or do you wish to halt and go back to the drawing board? >> Well, Patrick has it withdrawn one of the changes. I guess the question is do you all want to make any recommendation

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on the remaining changes? >> I don't know. It just seems to me there's so many questions and concerns about this that I think it's just too early to make any >> I agree >> motion to move this work. >> I think let's let's

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>> that's what I'm thinking is can we have a workshop to discuss this? I'm sure that there's some we've expressed some thoughts and opinions and I'm sure there's other thoughts and opinions out there that are just as valuable and that's the point of

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having such workshops so you can get all that stuff out there and then kind of debate the pros and the cons and then figure out what's best >> which we've kind of done. >> This is a topic that the public is always asking us about anyway, right?

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trees. >> Well, then I would move to continue and schedule a workshop on the matter with public participation. >> So, we have a motion. Is there a >> second for the sake of discussion? >> Okay. So, for the purpose of discussion,

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we have a second. Is there any further discussion on the motion? So, so do do we want to have a an entire workshop on it or should this be something that we can the staff can take our comments and then kind of come back

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and we'll notice it and give the public an opportunity to speak on it. But perhaps at least we could move it forward with a with a second. >> Can I ask a question related to that? Has this gone to horizontal round table yet? >> Yes. >> And did you get comments from horizontal

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round table? Um, there weren't very many that I can recall. No, and it went to the commissioners and there were hardly any comments from them too. Starky really liked the street tree. If you didn't give any comments from

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horizontal round table, my guess is that if you had a workshop, you're not going to get much additional comments, but it's up to you all what you would want to do. >> And maybe just continue this to address some of the things we've discussed and

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bring it back and that gives the public a second option if they do want to comment. That would be my that wasn't your motion. >> By the way, this is a public hearing. I don't know if you asked [clears throat] for public comment on this one. Did you? >> I didn't.

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>> Well, there are Okay, then for the moment because we're out of order, I will draw the motion and we'll come back to that. Okay. Anything else, Tammy? >> Nope. >> All right. Is there any public comment?

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Did you raise your hand back there? >> I thought I saw you. Oh, you smashed your head. [laughter] You got to be careful in here. You know, you go like that. >> N. You already spoke once. I'm sorry. You have to challenge pictures.

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and see what 34110 a nice place state city. Um, so to Mr. Galdi's point, I would rather see the whole county benefit from being a premier county than

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have no trees. Maybe we could get the developers to leave in the trees and build their developments around the trees. >> Well, and I agree with you. I mean again my my my question or my comment was not anti- trees. I'm not saying that. It's just

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it's the added cost. There have been things done. There's been revisions of the land development code recently to save I mean there's a mandatory requirement to save 20% of the trees on the site. So I mean there there are there are things that are being done to promote

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preservation of the existing vegetation. And I I'm I'm not against trees. What I'm against is is all the potential ramifications and problems that a mandatory requirement for this to happen has on all the other things that are in the ground. I mean, there's a lot

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of people that share that space. >> Well, and the other thing uh I think Jamie was alluding to earlier too was that every time we do something like that, we we all like it, but it costs money.

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>> So, and And the other the other thing that people are always complaining about is affordability, you know. So, how how can you have both, you know, you can't have uh Park Avenue without and and affordability?

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>> Yeah. I mean, for for example, going into a residential subdivision, if you take street trees into a residential subdivision, the main road when you come into the subdivision where there's not all the services, all the other stuff outside of the pavement and the rightway makes 100% perfect sense. Mandatory street trees for that entrance. Beautify

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the entrance, beautify the community, but in front of every single 50 or 60 foot lot to have a mandatory tree right in the middle where you're sharing it with the driveway, the water service, the sewer [snorts] service. I mean, there's there's a lot of stuff going in that small space. >> Small. They used to be bigger.

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>> Well, I I understand. >> That's a different subject. >> That's a whole another topic. But right now, >> right now, a developer is permitted in a lot of places to go in and put in a 50-ft lot. >> Can I tell you something funny? >> So, and here we have all of these

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inconsistencies in our code. We go and we change the land of the landscape code to make islands in a parking lot have a minimum planting width of 10 ft. We used to have islands that were as

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wide as a parking space. That's 9 ft. And then there was curbs. So there was about 8 feet left to plant. Then somebody in their infinite wisdom thought we needed more room for those trees to grow in those parking lots. So we made it 10 ft. But now here we are. We want to put trees along the street.

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And we're going to plant them in a two-ft strip of grass between the back of a curb and the face of a sidewalk, >> which is even more narrow because of the push for multi-use paths, which are wider and use up more of that rightway.

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>> And we'd all like bigger lots, but that adds again to the unaffordability. >> What about bigger lots and smaller houses? >> Taller houses, huh? [laughter] >> I mean, that would be affordable. Maybe

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the money I mean the market drives it. It's >> maybe maybe if someone takes my comment to heart about the number of pages our land development code requires compliance of. >> So you got to understand that the

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economics of building a residential development are not what they were 30 or 40 years ago. Okay? We used to have developers that used to go in and buy a tract of land, would develop the land, put in the main

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streets and the sidewalks and the utilities, and then they would sell blocks of lots to builders. And they were able to do this at a profit, selling the lot. Today, we don't have master developers. We have builders that

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go in and buy these tracks and develop the lots at a loss. They actually can't sell the lot for what it costs them to buy the land and develop it. They make their money from the profit on the house. The house is

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sold at a certain number of dollars per square foot. So, the builder is now incentivized to build on every last square foot of that lot to try to offset the loss he took developing the land because we have a land development code that is 1500 pages long that they can't

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afford to comply with. [clears throat] >> It's driven up the price of houses. And then >> so then we have >> then we have laws that you know are passed at the state level that are pushing you know laws like live local that >> I feel like all we had was problems today. I mean

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>> we're trying to get to solutions. >> That's right. >> Yeah. >> Well, thank you [clears throat] all. [cough] >> No, you know what though? The good news is this. you keep coming here and keep discussing things and that starts a discussion here and if nobody came there

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wouldn't be these discussions. So >> it's much appreciated >> even if you're not an expert [laughter] >> and I do encourage the young lady to keep coming here but you got to understand how the system works. >> Yeah. And thank you all for taking the

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time too. I know you all are so We appreciate that. >> Thank you, Nancy. >> We're paid by your wonderful presence. [laughter] >> Now, we at a nice place. >> That's right. She's a nice lady.

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>> Um, just a question. So, do you are you talking about tableabling the whole thing or are you fine with 403.5 and 403.7, which is the construction traffic plan? >> Well, I think he withdrew his motion, so I don't know if we're talking about it. >> Yeah. So that's what that was my I guess

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that was my question was whether we wanted to >> or do you want to do the whole you know table the whole thing >> is there >> was there anybody else with public comment or >> um I just to answer your question my thoughts I didn't say anything about

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that and I really don't have a problem submitting a construction plan as depicted in Tammy's presentation where I do have a problem with the language that's in that proposed ordinance is that there are no standards

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for that plan. So, what I don't want to do, and I'm sure Jamie can attest to having been through these kinds of things over the years with different people in charge, when you don't have a standard for what a

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plan has to meet, then it can be whatever that reviewer wants the standard to be. And we can drag the approval on of that forever and ever and ever and ever because there's no standard that is to be met. >> Mhm. >> Yep.

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>> If it's as simple as what you drew, I'm great with it. But I'd like to see you either put that example in the code and say this is the level of detail to be provided where I don't want somebody coming in

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here and telling me well that's a nice plan you drew Mr. Moody, but now I need the design speed for all the roads. I need the average daily traffic for all the roads. I need the number of cars turning left at this intersection and right turning and and it's going to take me five years to get a construction traffic plan approved.

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was not the intent of the >> I'm I know it's not your intent, but I've been around long enough to to have been jerked around. >> I mean, it does say shall depict a construction traffic route from the project site to the closest arterial collector roadway. I mean, if that's all and it's limited to that,

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>> then that's no worries. But, so if somebody comes in and interprets that it's not, that's a valid point. So, it sounds like we want a little bit of change to everything. >> A little bit more thought. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it seems to me that it's

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just not mature yet to vote on, but >> I'm open to motions >> a month be okay to fix it to work it out. >> Would is 30 days enough?

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>> I knew you were going to say that. >> [laughter] >> Christmas [laughter] >> next Christmas. >> Tammy, the other thing, and maybe this is in here, I just didn't know, but I saw this is effective 10 days. It has to be filed or made effective. How does

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that handle? I mean, how's that if an application's already submitted? Is it retroactive? Something that's already submitted and not approved. all of these requirements >> for >> a project you're currently reviewing. Are they I mean, if this gets adopted, a project currently that you're currently reviewing that doesn't have approval

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yet, do they are they going to be required then to meet this? >> No. >> Okay. >> No, it's only applicable review will be grand. >> Okay. >> It won't be effective. >> Can we add a statement to that? >> Absolutely. >> That any application submitted on or before it doesn't have to comply with

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this requirement. >> All right. Yeah, I hear a motion some kind. >> So, I'd move that we continue it to the August 20th meeting in Newport, which is two weeks. That make you happy, David?

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[laughter] >> Second. >> Okay, we have a second by Matthew. >> Any further discussion? Okay. All in favor signify by saying I I post like sign. Motion carries. >> Do not leave.

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>> Now I know we got >> got new business. New business. >> Yeah. We're going to uh >> Nice to see you, Tammy. >> Lay down the law part of the meeting. >> I got to Well, this is another discussion item. I didn't Can you pass that down to Mr. Mons? >> We're going to take a

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>> We're going to take a break. We can. That's up to you. >> It's got to be an official part of the meeting. >> Yeah. I want >> 5 minute break or maybe six. [laughter] You don't want to