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Today at a in a virtual virtual uh Zoom meeting for to to um review the matter of an ANR submitted off of Teaticket One Road. Can we have

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a legal description of the property? >> Okay, just just a moment. Um Margo's on her way in and There you go. >> Okay, so we have all the board members here. And we're here to

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um What would be the term approve the ANR submitted for what is the legal description of the property on Teaticket One? >> I'll get on that. >> So

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yeah, so we have the ANR from Mark Gallagher for the property adjacent to 146 Teaticket One Road. Cooper's ready to share that if you care to have it shared. >> Let's let's see it. >> Okay. >> Margo, do you do you have control of the

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cursor or Cooper. >> [snorts] >> I I don't If [clears throat] you're asking me, Jeff, I don't have control of anything. >> Oh, no, no, no. I I I was asking Warren. Uh I I just want for anyone watching, I have a cursor, but I don't know if it comes through. >> No, no, no,

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yeah, Cooper's would. >> Okay. We're talking about a 35-ft wide parcel uh that is being broken off from number 168 that will

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uh connect to what's called parcel I can't read it. Is it parcel eight >> or seven? >> Parcel seven. >> No, no, you're right. It's a It's a parcel eight. >> Uh lot 48, which will when these

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>> 4B >> 4B, when these two parcels are combined will create a legal uh building lot under our bylaws uh and um that's what we're here to

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review and discuss today. Um I first I want to ask the board, are there any questions? >> I have a question. Usually when we do an A&R,

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the 35-ft strip is coming from lot A, uh 168. We usually do an A&R that shows the breaking up of that off of the original 168 so that you can keep track of how these parcels are created. This is jumping

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right to the end, and all of a sudden the 35-ft strip is included on on lot 48. Um I question whether we should really do it that way so that they there is a there's a history of how that where that 35-ft strip came from. Obviously, the

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people in 168 have to have to agree to this and and have sold it to them, which I'm assuming they have, but there should be an A&R that shows lot A, 168 breaking off the 35-ft strip, and then the 35-ft strip being

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included into lot B as a separate A&R kind of deal. We're doing it all together, and I just find it confusing. I understand what we're trying to do, but I just find that confusing, and it's something I never, in all the years I've been on the board, never remember it

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being not being a two-strip step process. That's all my concern is with this whole thing. Other than that, I'm okay with it, just that I think we should separate the project of 168 for us to make the 35-ft strip, then include

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it into lot 48. That's all. We're doing it all at the same time. >> Yeah, I I I agree with you there, Mark, because I would like to see that this has been formally deeded over uh here, so that we we know legally which piece of property we're talking

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about here. >> Uh there's I have two comments. Number one, Marin has reviewed this with town council, this particular process. Um and I can have her ex- her explain

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the result of that, and also then we can hear from the applicant and/or his attorney. Marin, could you talk? >> Yeah, thank thank you. Um I spoke uh Cooper and I spoke with town council, Ethan Diveley,

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just the other day, understanding that Mark's question was coming forward. He was not concerned at all with accomplishing both creating the parcel and then combining it with to create lot 4B.

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He was not concerned with one A&R to do all of that. >> Um, Mark Gallagher, uh and as opposed to Mark Montanari, can you comment on the concern about the actual ownership

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of parcel A and B? Well, we know that you own parcel B. >> Good enough. Good [clears throat] evening. Thank you, Mark. Uh Montanari, good question. So, um prior to our uh submitting this,

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we had conversation uh with our attorney and the engineering uh our engineer as well. We could not present this as when originally when we did this, we developed the A&R uh for this, we did it

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the way that Mark is describing. But, we were told legally that we could not do that in a way that Mark has described. Um, we have parcel A under agreement. We're closing on it uh Monday or Tuesday this coming week.

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Because it's under agreement, we cannot merge it with the land that we own from 146. The only way that this can be presented is the way that it's being presented. It is a legally acceptable route as town

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council has indicated um for us to create the A&R by combining parcel A with the land that we already uh own, which was part of 146 to have one. So, initially we did do it, Mark, the

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way that you're describing, um but because we don't have legal right, title, and ownership to it, and we will not until the beginning of this week, um this was the only path for us to be able to meet the requirements of our purchase and sale agreement and to be able to

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legally do this in a method that's acceptable both under the bylaw state the chapter for the state for A&Rs. So this this property meets all the requirements that has legal frontage, it has area, it

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meets the requirements of the 150 ft square. It's legally accessible, it's on a town road. It meets every requirement for signature by the planning board for it for A&R. There there really isn't another path

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forward that meets the requirements. We would have created a title issue if we had done it the way that you suggested or you suggested earlier this evening, Mark. >> Well, that even raises more questions because

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there has to be a clean line of ownership. So actually you're trying to A&R something you don't actually own. You might have a purchase and sale but you don't actually own it. So why >> You understand under Massachusetts state law that a purchase and sale agreement is owner by agreement which allows you

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to do exactly what we're doing here this evening. I think the town council has already weighed in on this and did not have an issue. If there was an issue, I think they would have brought that forward and we would have then had conversations with

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Jonathan about this, Mark, but this is the legal path forward >> Well, I don't >> and this is this is >> change and why didn't we wait an extra 10 days or whatever? Is this really something that has to be done today? I'm I don't understand. This is you've owned

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this property for I don't know, eight or 10 months. Why did all of a sudden we have to have a special meeting just to do it and now we're under the gun to do it because you say legally you can't do it until you actually own it. I would rather see you own the strip then do it the way that everyone else before you has always done

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it. A&R'd off of off of the first one. So, there's a record of it. There's no record of this. If If If the town of Littleton ever went back to look at where you got the frontage on this, there's no A&R that shows us how you did it. It's just an A&R that shows it already connected, all

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set to go. I'm I'm just trying to keep everybody on the same playing field. I I I I understand what you're saying, Mark, and I I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with how it looks for everybody else and why we have to do this on the 12th hour, why we can't wait

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10 days till you actually own it, and then come back on August 6th, which is 2 weeks away, and do it on August 6th the right way where everybody else where I would be happy and and I and everybody else could see the steps that we took to create this A&R

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lot. That's all. That's all I'm saying. >> Okay. >> I don't understand why there's an urgency to do it right this second. That's all I guess that's all and um I guess if you want to speak to that, fine. If not, >> It was a requirement of our purchase and sale agreement. I've done this before.

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You know, as long as you've been on the planning board, I've been a real estate developer. >> I get that, but I've never I've never >> this I'm I'm not disputing Mark. Not arguing with you. >> Okay. >> I'm I'm saying that we had to go down this path and call it a

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parcel and follow this because this is the only legal way we could meet the requirements of our purchase and sale agreement. >> But but you made the terms of the purchase and sale agreement. >> No. No. In any purchase and sale agreement

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>> those terms. I I I I just don't see it. I guess you haven't demonstrated that you control this strip of land to me uh at this point. >> Well, I have demonstrated it. >> Where? >> I have I have a valid >> submittal doesn't have anything that shows that. >> Gerald, I I'm

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I would disagree with you, and if you feel that you can deny this based upon uh a position that is legally adverse to what town council has said as an acceptable means of doing so? I I I I would question

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that decision-making process, to be honest. Uh you're not an attorney, I'm not. I'm telling you what we were told was the only legal path forward. Maren has gone out to town council. She explained to you what town council's position was, and you're disagreeing

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with it. >> Yeah. >> I have a couple questions. Um number one, what if your purchase and sale is not accomplished on Monday or Tuesday? >> Um >> I mean, this is this is the this is the

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reason why Mark is advocating this Tuesday. >> No, I understand what Mark is asking me to do. I I'm just not I I I actually don't have any >> We're going to close on the land regardless >> of whether you approve this tonight or not, because we know that this is

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uh legally the path forward to creating an A&R. I I'm I don't clearly understand, Mark. You're saying that there's no tracking of the parcel. Can you explain that? >> Sure. How can Usually, like the people

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that own 168 have will have an A&R a separate A&R that shows them breaking off that 35-ft strip from their land. It doesn't show it being broken off. It shows that it's already broken off. They have to physically break it off first, have it as a separate entity, and then deed it

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over to you, so that you can combine it and get the frontage that you need. It's not like you just you already have the frontage. You don't have the frontage. You absolutely need this to get the frontage, and you're not showing how you got the frontage. You might have it in a written so- something somewhere else,

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but if anybody came to look this up, they would never find it. That's my whole point. They'd didn't to go to something that was already existing and they're going to say, "Well, this is This is already there. They already owned it." There is no way for anybody to go back if you ever have to go back and check this out if there's a problem

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with the deed or something like that. There's nothing No record that shows 168 going from 300 ft of of of roadway frontage taking 35 ft off going to 275

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uh 270 65. And that's the new A&R. There's an A&R with their frontage on it and there's the separate parcel that they can then convey over to you. They're You're skipping a step. I know you can I I know what you're doing and trying to do. I understand that. I just

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don't understand why we have to change how we've done things for the past 34 years that I've been on it because we need to do it by by next week. We can wait 2 weeks, come back with this. I would be happy. I assume Daryl would be happy and we could just do this again in

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the proper steps that I feel we need to do. That's all I'm trying to say and there is no There is no paper trail that shows what what's going on here. Just an A&R with it already on there. That's all. And I don't know why town council waited and said this was okay. I I honestly I

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did not speak with them. I can't I I know what Marvin said, but I know that we have to have a paper trail for the for the town of Littleton. If somebody goes back and looks and sees how this was done and see how that lot was created, there has to be an A&R that breaks it off from two 168 and I don't

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see an A&R that does that. I just see an A&R that has it already broken off. That's it. That's That's my piece on it. You know, you don't need my vote to to get your A&R. >> No, no, no, no, but I I'm No, but right. I I understand that I probably wouldn't necessarily need your vote, but

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I this A&R when recorded tracks the change. I mean, you can't say no because when it goes to record, it becomes part of the deeds of references to each of the properties. I I I'm going to say this, I

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don't have an issue with tabling this for 10 days and giving you the extension. I really don't care. If you feel comfortable then 10 days you're all going to be on board with it because I then own the land. I may have to change the the document being

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I I don't once I own the land that it's not a parcel. Well, I suppose it still is a parcel cuz it's not co-joined with the 146 until the A&R is approved. >> But even in 10 days, Mark, just and I appreciate you willing to do that. I I

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get that. But even in 10 days, you have to come back with a separate plan that shows lot 146 at 300 300 ft of road frontage, break this off as a separate parcel, then combine it as you're doing the the A&I that you have now would be fine, but

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you need another A&I that shows it the parcel has 300 ft with you breaking off and calling it parcel A and then conveying it. That's That's all I'm asking so that there's some sort of track that shows how it how we got the 35 ft of of roadway frontage. That's

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all. And >> Mark, would we have access to um Jonathan have a conversation? I mean, I'm I'm willing to table it. It's not my issue. But I I Although Mark has been on the board for 34 years and I've done this for 43

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years, I don't agree with him. Okay. I There's no reason for me to be adverse to tabling it for 10 days. Um but I think before I come back in 10 days, we need to have a path forward that everybody will agree

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to in 10 days and I'm not sure that the path that we're on tonight needs to change. And if it does need to change, we'll make the change. But I believe that we've been properly coached legally and by our

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engineering group, which you know, Sue Carter, uh that this is the proper way to do this. But if it is not, and the path that Mark is suggesting is the right way, then we'll make the change. But I think Town Council and Jonathan should have a

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conversation just so we know what the path is that everybody is comfortable with. Cuz I'm not familiar. I'm I'm trying to think back if I've done many A&Rs in Littleton in the past, but it doesn't really matter. Um you know, we can we can table this until

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your next meeting, and I'll give you the extension beyond the 21 days in order to do that in writing tomorrow, but we just need to have a the legal minds have to agree. And if Mark is correct, then that's the path we'll

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take. But if it's if if there's if legally this is the way we have to do it, and I come back in 10 days, you know, I don't want Mark to be um saying that it's, you know, it should be done in a different manner. >> That's all I'm saying is everybody that has ever come before you who does an A&R

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in the town of Littleton, if they're breaking a piece of land off, that stands on its own, and that's exactly what you're doing. There's a There's a piece of land that's being broken off from one 168 and being put in in the twilight zone for a day, and then

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that piece is going to stand on its own and be connected over to yours. There is no succession of that 35-ft frontage. If I look at your A&R right now, it's already there. That's the point I'm trying to make. There has to be a a

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a step. You have to take it away from 168 first, let it stand on its own for 5 minutes, and then combine it with your If you're already combining it, that's that's the optics that anybody who looks at this 5 years down the road, 10 years down the road, whatever, if anybody ever

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looked at it, they wouldn't see that. That's all I'm trying to make. >> Okay. >> I I So, so can I >> As long as as long as Jonathan can you know, can concur with town council, whatever the path you'd like us to take, I'm more than willing to do so. I just

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don't want to squander 10 days and come back and not have the correct path. That's all. >> Uh how about this? I will agree that I will I will talk to Tom Harrington or whoever I have to to see if a separate A&R is fine and then combining it

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together, so we see two pieces of paper. We see >> need to know how to do it. If I need another plan, I'll create the plan. >> Okay. >> I just I just want direction from your legal counsel that's providing you with direction that we we acquire the

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same direction to meet at the same goal at the end. I think otherwise, you know, we meet all the other requirements and we will continue to do so, frontage area etc. >> Yeah, I I agree with that. I'm just questioning the >> I'm fine. I'm fine. We can we can table it for 10 days. I'll write a letter to

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you I'll drop you an email tomorrow morning Mark. >> Can I summarize? >> Sure. Thank you. >> As I understand [clears throat] it, Mark is requesting basically two drawings.

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One drawing showing the 35 um foot parcel set off from 168, and then another drawing showing the the common the back the 4B and the 35 combined. And

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that's it. Now, what I'm going to do is I'm going to pull the board to see if they want to table this or not. If they do, then we'll schedule it at the at Can we schedule at the very beginning of the August 6th meeting?

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>> Yes. >> Uh okay, so I'm going to pull the board. We know what Mark Well, I won't speak for you. Mark, would you Do you want this to be tabled? Um >> I would like to see a little more clarity. I'd like to see two A&Rs.

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That's that's my opinion on it. Yes. >> Okay, Daryl. >> Uh yes, I'd like to have it tabled. And again, I I I'm a agreeing with Mark. I'd like to make sure that we see that that parcel A has been legally defined and separated so

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that we can understand ownership and how it's going to be combined formally uh there. So. >> Bartley. >> I also agree um with Daryl and with Mark Montanari that I would prefer to see it tabled and and re-submitted.

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>> Margo. >> Yeah, I agree with um with Mark and Daryl's points. I think we need to ensure that this is clear so that looking back there's no issues with it. >> Uh okay, so and my view is I think

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the the only troubling thing I have with it is the fact that you do not own the 35-ft parcel yet. So, I too will um uh table it. I you know, Mark Gallagher, I don't think we have any

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any problem with the resulting lot >> I understand. >> that you're creating. It's just a process. And uh anyway, that being said, we'll table it. Um Marn, what time would we have this um

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for the August 6th meeting? >> Um so, we We have board business right at 6:30. We could replace board business some with this ANR. >> Yes, I think so. I think we've we've discussed what we need to know. We've more or less decided that in its

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ultimate form it will be fine. It's a matter of process. So, yes. >> No no issues. >> And and I don't want to it's going to be a long meeting, so I don't want to torture you by putting you in the back. >> Thanks. >> I appreciate that. >> Okay, so that being said

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>> August August 6th um that meeting will be back in the um multi-purpose room one at the senior center. >> Oh, great. Great. Super. >> Okay. So, that being said uh our business for this meeting is concluded. I'd like to

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thank all the board members for showing up uh on Zoom for this. Um it may have been a little I I don't think it was a waste of time because we've advanced we've advanced this matter not to a conclusion, but we've advanced it to the point where we

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can quickly dispose of it. A- and Mark Gallagher, we will also be present to sign whatever we need to sign at that meeting. >> you. Thank you. Thank you, Mark, by the way. Thank you for standing. No no, Mark, listen. We got to do it the right way.

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So, I have no issue. >> Thank you. >> Okay, that that being said uh board members uh do I have a motion to close this meeting or to adjourn this meeting? >> Motion to adjourn. >> Second.

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>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> I. >> Okay, thank you so much. >> Bye. Thank you, everyone. [clears throat] Bye-bye now.