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We're waiting for We're just waiting a few minutes for our legal counsel that's on his way over here on the table. I'd like to welcome everybody to the July 27th, 2026 meeting of the Highland

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Park Zoning Board of Adjustment. This meeting has been called to order in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act. Notice of this meeting was provided to the Home News Tribune, the Star Ledger, and the Highland Park Planet on March 24th, 2026, and was posted on the

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Burough website and on the bulletin board at Burough Hall and has remained continuously posted as required by law. Fire exits are to the left and right of the council chambers. When speaking, please speak into the microphone so you

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can be clearly understood by all. Mr. Dickerson, >> Mr. Fector, >> present. >> Mr. Fez >> here. >> Mr. Miss Corbin >> here. >> Miss Leslie >> present. >> Mr. Ros,

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>> Mr. Viney, >> Miss Walsh >> here, >> Mr. Winfrey, >> Mr. Thomas >> here, >> Mr. Penza here, >> Mr. Robinson >> here. >> Councilman Hail. >> Um, I ask you to all please rise and

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join me in the pledge of allegiance of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands nationy and justice for all. Um, is there anybody here that is

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present for a case that is not currently on the agenda? Okay. And we're going to move right along. Um, >> why don't we defer that until we have

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Okay. Um, so the case that we're going to be hearing tonight is a new case. The Middle Sex Water Company is the applicant owner of block 103 lot 13

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um in Highland Park. Um, >> council should be good enough. Hold on. Yeah, good enough to identify yourself. >> Richard Skolnick on behalf of the applicant. Nice to see you, Mr. Thomas. See you, sir. All right, I'm going to just hand the first exhibit out. I have a little opening,

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>> a little opening statement. This may be helpful. >> I don't care if it's little as long as it's short. Okay, >> Mark. >> We're going to get to that in a second. I just wanted to get it out. to >> try to move along as we can. Chairwoman,

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can I start? >> Of course. >> Thank you again. My name is Richard Skolnick. I have my own law firm and I'm representing the Middle Sex Water Company. We're here for preliminary and final site plan approval. We also have some C and D variances. Chairwoman, as

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you mentioned, we're block 103, lots 11, 12, and 13. 11, 12, and 13. My client owns 13 and Ruters owns 11 and 12. There's really no street address on this one. Uh it's sort of called Cedar Lane

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Rear, as you'll come to know. It's a sort of an in between parcel. Uh we're not proposing construction of any new buildings uh in Highland Park. It's really an entry road. We are asking for approval

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to relocate a storage shed that is on the Edison side of this project to move it into Highland Park within the required setback areas, but no new structures. I think the board appreciates this is really an application for an access road. We're

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going to refer to Edison as the CJO treatment plan. CJO that stands for Carl J. Olsen treatment plant. That's this existing water treatment on the Edison

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Township uh side. I note, and you're going to hear a good bit of testimony that the access road that we're proposing that's going to start at a warehouse in Edison, sort of snake through Highland Park, and then go back

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into Edison. It's going in substantially the same location as an existing railroad bed. We'll hear more details, but we're taking advantage and minimizing to the extent feasible the grading and the construction by

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using this sort of old railroad bed that's still used a little bit uh currently, but we're using that location that's already gone through. We do have a separate application pending in Edison that's actually going to be heard tomorrow night by coincidence for a

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major upgrade of the water treatment facility. You may have heard of something called PAS PFAS. >> I'm so sorry this morning. If you could use the microphone just for recording purposes. >> Use the microphone please. I can't hear you.

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>> Okay. >> You can choose everyone at the desk. We can hear him, but I guess >> would you like to come up? You want to go there? >> Just Okay. Okay. Uh, so um,

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tomorrow night in Edison there is another application for a significant upgrade and you'll hear a little bit about that because the projects work together. >> There we go. >> Thank you. In addition to the roadway, we're

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proposing some drainage facilities here in Highland Park. I mentioned the movement of a 1,500 square foot storage shed. Lot 11, that's the Ruters owned parcel

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or one of the Ruters own parcels is in the RMG zone. Lot 12 owned by Ruters and lot 13 owned by my client are in the CS zone and we're also in the stream corridor protection overlay zone. So the zoning

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is a little bit complicated. Um we are a public utility. We're going to analyze the case under the D1 criteria as if it's a use variance. There's some arguments that were an expansion of a

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prior non-conforming use, but given the three different zones, we took the more conservative route and we think we uh can establish the criteria. Of course, we are inherently beneficial on the use variance. So, we get to take

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advantage of that see balancing test. You may have heard of that. It's the four-step balancing test. It's sort of a special test when you're inherently beneficial. the four steps. What's the public good? What are the detriments? Are there any conditions? And then there's a balancing on whether the

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variance could be granted without substantial detriment. Chairwoman, we've had a little twist. Two weeks ago, the New Jersey Supreme Court came out with a new case and sort of modified the fourth step of the balancing test to ask us to

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focus a little more specifically on the zoning ordinance part of that test. and our planner of course is going to talk about that uh as well. Uh so uh what I would like to do chairwoman I'm gonna

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call my planner Lauraai Totten just to go over I'll qualify her as a planner. She also happens to be an engineer. Um just as >> we're okay. >> Turn those phones off, please.

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>> I'm working on it. >> Okay. Uh I'm going to call uh Miss Totten just to sort of orient you with the two municipalities where the treatment plan is. Then I'm going to call Brian Carr from Middle Sex Water. He's really the business person. explain

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why we're here, what we're trying to do with creating a secondary access road and what we're trying to do in the treatment plant. Um uh and he's going to talk a little bit about those forever chemicals uh uh as well. Then we'll call

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uh Dave Tanzy. He's the civil engineer. Talk about the civil aspects, the drainage, the roadway, and so on. We have a traffic expert for very brief testimony. That's John Ray. And then we'll have Miss Totten come back as the

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planner to talk about the statutory criteria for the variances. As I mentioned to you off the record, we think our presentations could take maybe an hour, hour and 15 to get it all in. And of course, depending on the questions that you ask, I want to give you a little overview of uh of what

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we're up to tonight. Would that be okay? >> Would that be okay? Except that I'd like to take a moment. Uh I noticed that there is two reports from our consultants. Both of those have reviewed the issues involved in completeness. They have raised a number of questions but they raised a number of waiverss uh

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that need to be dealt with and therefore I'm going to be looking to the board. Ladies and gentlemen, as you know there have been discussions in the planners report the engineers report regarding the issue of completeness. Uh several of them have raised issues about waiverss that are being requested by the

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applicant. What I would suggest is that it would appear as though and I I don't like this being engineered better, but I will in this particular case uh and if they if I speak misspeak, I'm sure they'll advise me. They've indicated that there are some modifications of

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waiverss. Uh if they have any concerns about those, they should indicate them now. And if not, I'm going to be suggesting that madam chair, you end up soliciting the motion to give the application for complete granting. But before I solicit that, well, you should

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solicit that. Gentlemen, do you have anything comment any comments regarding the issue of computations? >> Uh, thank you, Mr. Thomas. In my report dated July 22nd, 2026, section two on page two of the technology requested waivers

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requirements from both the preliminary sight checklist as well as the final site plan checklist. Uh there's some duplication there. So it's a lot more than >> I don't think we need to go through each and every one of that if you end up having any comments as to why those waiverss should not be

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granted. That's maybe the focus of what we uh so I'll keep it simple then I don't have any reason for the board to de application complete I recommend for um given the scope project request >> I concur there we go ladies and

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gentlemen you've heard the uh comments by your engineering planner if you concur with their opinions that the waiverss can be granted without adversely affecting uh the review of this application recognizing that I say this mostly for members of the public because sometimes they don't understand

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the process. You all do. But if you do grant waivers, you fully understand that by granting those waiverss for purposes of completeness, you are not granting them necessarily forever. If it turns out during the course of the uh hearing that one of the waiverss that was

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granted you feel as though is necessary. uh whatever that may be an engineing detail, planning detail, whatever it may be, you have the right uh to uh request that and then the applicant will will act accordingly. But nonetheless, at this point in time, you've heard the recommendations of your staff and I

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would now suggest, madam chair, that you solicit a motion to uh deem the application to requested. Uh >> do I have a motion to deem the application complete and accepting the requested waiverss? I move that. Do I

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>> have a second? >> Second. >> I would suggest a roll, please. >> Roll call, please. >> Mr. Factor. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fez. >> Yes. >> Miss Corbin.

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>> Yes. >> Miss Wall. >> Yes. >> Miss Leslie. >> Yes. >> Mr. Biden. >> Yes. And I'll try not to interrupt too much at any word. >> I'll hold you to that, Mr. Thomas. Thank

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you. Chairwoman, I'm going to call our first witness, the planner, Lauraai Totten. We'll have her sworn, please. >> M, do you swear or affirm testimony that you're about to give the truth? So, help me God. >> I do. >> To state your name, spell your last name, and the location of your offices,

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please. >> Yes. Lauraai Totten Tia and Tom O ten Crest Engineering Associates Inc. Milstone Township New Jersey. Do you have another microphone? >> Uh my best.

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>> There we go. Thank you very much. I don't think we'll be talking much. >> Okay, Miss Ton, can you provide your professional qualifications? >> He is an attorney. He doesn't understand the electronics. Yes, I can provide. Is this on again?

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Doesn't sound like it. Turn it off. >> Green light should be. >> Hello. There we go. I'm on. Thank you. I graduated from Lehigh University with a bachelor of science and civil engineering in 1977. um not derain to this particular hearing

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but I passed my professional engineering tests and obtained my license in 1983. My planner's license is from 1986. I have 40 years of experience in um a lot of C variance planning as well as

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Dvariance and C variance planning before zoning boards throughout northern and central Jersey including Mammoth County, Middle Sex County, Bergen County, Morris County, Navy Essex, been heard before I think uh Edison

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zoning board as well, but I have not had the pleasure to speak before this board. >> I uh you've already sort of answered the question, but you have obviously been accepted by way of the qualifications as a professional planner in various land use zoning and plank which is >> that is correct.

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>> I have no additional questions on you. Thank you very much. >> Okay, Laura, we worked on the exhibit marked as A1. You worked on that with the engineering firm? >> I did. >> Okay. And you can get that easel. >> Is that the same as this? That is

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>> so A1 >> is well you have it listed as exhibit one but we'll call it A1 and it is apparently it's described as an aerial exhibit and believe it. >> Yes, it's an aerial exhibit um prepared by Mr. Panzee staff at CDM Smith. And

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what it shows you is the overall project itself. Starting on the eastern side, Fair View Avenue coming in from Edison into the main uh portion of the water treatment plant, which is located in the

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lower middle part of this board. You want me to move it? >> Can everybody see it? >> Okay. Got in front of you there a little bit. Okay. Right. Um, and then then then there's a a lot right next to the Edison border.

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Edison Oh, I guess I should say Highland Park first. Correct. The Highland Park Edison border. There's a a triangle lot located on the corner that is owned by the water company. And then, as indicated by the attorney, there is a

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about a 2acre parcel with another 3/4 acre parcel above it. both owned by Ruckers that are but another property in Edison, the Seg warehouse building which has access on Cedar Lane which is

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running through the upper west northwest corner of this display. So right now the only entrance is from here and the impacts on on Highland Park will be uh continuing the road around and

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connecting into an existing access point on Cedar Road sorry up near Cedar Grove Road Cedar Lane which is how segus warehouse accesses to County Road. Um it goes through two recorders lots and then

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into the lot owned by uh water company and that's basically my orientation. >> So just for tonight's purposes we're going to that big white building is a warehouse. We're going to call that seg. Is that okay? >> Yes. >> Yeah, that's the Okay. And when uh the

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chairwoman I mentioned we're going to be in Edison tomorrow night. So uh we're going to be looking for approvals. Can Lauraai, would you show them where the access road starts on the Segmi property in Edison? >> There's an existing pave driveway into a

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parking lot on the western side of the segment building. And there's an existing paid short paid area on the that goes towards this railroad spur that was part of Camp Kilmer at one time. Comes down and the propo there's

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existing drive over this road. a culvert under it because there's a stream here that will be described to you later and then it curves around and joins an access road that's actually on the uh water company property. So, this is the

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proposed area that we'll be focusing on tonight along with a little storm water part of the storm water basin and a proposed well, it's an existing shed that's located in the area where the construction is proposed in Edison, but

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we're asking to move it over to a corner of the uh plot owned by the company. So, I was out at the site over the weekend and I noticed a like a gravel access road with guide rails. Could you tell me

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where that is on the map? >> If you can't want to defer to it. >> Yes, I would like to defer to Mr. Tany. >> That's fine. So, hold that. We'll get to it in just one minute. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, Lauraai, just to do it again, can you run your hand down where the municipal border is?

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>> Yes. the municipal borders uh parallels this road and then the the parking lot adjacent to Sank Bank straight on down and uh to the railroad tracks. >> And then uh final question for this part of your testimony, you did a little

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research uh in terms of aerial photos about the road. Could you just describe for the board? Yes. You know, what you found there? >> Yes. So Cam Kilmer occupied a lot of this area back uh during before well during World War II and I believe that

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the railroad that comes through here and the spurs were constructed in the around 1942 sometime between 1940 and 1944 because those were the aerial maps I looked at and then I researched Camp Kilmore a little bit and I believe that

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Camp Kilmore was uh de abandoned not really abandoned but in 1963 approximately. Uh some of the railroads that go through here are still here used for other purposes, but this spur which does have a little bit of tracks on it

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down below the road is mostly used now to access that cover to maintain it. >> Is is there a stream protection zone? >> There is. There is. I will be more completely uh described by Mr. Tanzy.

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However, the the northern property line is a stream and there is a flood plane associated with that and it has a a 50- foot buffer on that flood plane. So, from 50 foot to 50 foot on either side. It's a stream corridor that runs through

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this and we are asking for some variances uh or a variance from that which is permitted by the ordinance. >> Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, chairwoman, as uh advertised, I wanted to have the overview so we could

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all sort of orient and then now I'm going to call uh unless you want to open it to the public or >> Yeah, why don't we open up to the to the board members questions and also the public and then we can move. >> Miss Ton will be coming back as you >> Okay. Any members of the board have any questions at this time?

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>> Gentlemen, >> any members of the public have any questions at this time? >> Yes, ma'am. Please identify yourself and and since you don't have a mic, you can Oh, well, I guess you do have a mic. >> Lois Loing, North Second Avenue. What else you need? >> That's it.

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>> Please spell your last name. >> Spell your last name. >> LB I N G. >> And your address again? >> North Second Avenue Park. >> Thank you. >> How many acres of the preserve will be impacted or how many feet

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to share? I'm going to defer to Mr. Tanzy. He said the civil engineer that designed these plans and he knows all those. >> I know utilities or I understand utilities don't have to give notice

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within 200 feet or I've read that maybe that's true or not true. But my question is has wrers been notified of those certified letters for this application? Well, well, I could answer that. We we

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did notice. We're required to notice and we we did notice Ruters is one of the property owners. So, they actually signed an owner's consent form agreeing to allow us to bring this application. So, we we got the list from Edison in

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Highland Park and did the usual notice. >> Okay, good. That's all for now. Thank you. >> I did have a contextual question. Sure. Um, could you describe the unmet need for the with respect to the current access road? Why why is another access

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road really? >> We're going to we're going to get to that with the next witness on what we're looking the next two witnesses really. Seems there's nobody else in the public. Oh yes. The board and the uh senior arms department's there. Can you point to

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where their pool is for me? I'm not sure where it's >> as if I recall that there was a quite a bad flooding incident there. I forget if it was Irene or Sandy, but uh it really

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washed out quite terribly at one point. I'm not 100% sure, but looking at the map >> and the overlay, there's something in here that's probably either a tennis court or a pool. >> Okay. There's no other questions. I think we

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can move on. Thank you very much. >> Okay, chairwoman. I'm going to call Brian Carr, the uh director, vice president of New Jersey engineering at Middle Sex More. >> Sir, you swear affirm the testimony that you're about to give the truth. So, help

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you go ahead. >> I do. >> Would you be kind enough to state your name, spell your last name, and the location of your offices, please? >> I'm Brian Carr. C A R R. My office is at uh 485C Route 1 South in Islam. >> Thank you.

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>> Okay, Mr. Carr, what's your your position with Middle Sex Water? >> I am the current vice president and leader of the engineering group at the Middle Sex Water Company. >> And you've been with them for a bit of time. >> I've worked for Middle Sex for 16 years now. >> And and what are some uh some of your

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other positions that led you to be the vice president of engineering? I started as a senior project engineer essentially doing all the regular grunt work you do on a regular construction project. did that for many years. uh became manager of engineering I guess seven so years

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ago but people engineers start reporting to me for the work they were doing after that I became the director of engineering where the entire department is reporting to me and since then it's been director then some other minor title increases until vice president >> and we're not qualifying you as an expert but you are a licensed engineer I

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am >> and you've been working in the water industry for approximately how >> 20 years about 20 years in the water industry >> okay >> and I and I mentioned the CJO or Carl J. Olsen uh treatment plant that brings us here today. Can you give us some

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background the project and why you're coming to the board of adjustment here in Highland Park? So, yeah, the biggest reason we're here is the uh EPA passed new PAS regulations which were stricter than the ones passed in 2019 by New Jersey where they bring it they brought

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it down from New Jerseys 13 roughly parts per trillion to four parts per trillion. The source water we have at CDO plant we buy from the state tends to be right around four to six parts per trillion. So we if we did not provide

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treatment to this water we would be in violation of drinking water standards. That is the reason we're building the the large plants shown in Edison that's going Edison. Um and as part of that there's going to be increased truck traffic for the change out of the GAC filters. Sorry I should explain that.

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the granular activated carbon filters. We selected granular activated carbon after an extensive piloting program we ran for about a year. We tested six different removal techniques and while all were effective, the most effective and most cost effective was the granular

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activated carbon deep bed contacttors which essentially you can picture a giant swimming pool full of carbon 30t deep 20 ft wide each ten. And this uh let's just go back PAS these are these forever chemicals that I mentioned

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>> per and poly florinated alkal substances I believe that's pas that's how that works >> okay for very long >> and uh and there are uh new regulations from both the federal government and the state government requiring the removal yes or uh or lowering of of these

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background chemicals in the water system. They are requiring it to be removed to essentially the detection limit of the test. >> Okay. And uh and when must that be done? >> The currently things are kind of fluid, but currently the way it's written and the way the law

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stands, it is April of 2029, we have to be in compliance. We have to start notifying in 2028. If we exceed the the four parts per trillion on the running annual average, but then that would be a thing if we didn't provide. So, uh, the company is going to be

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spending a significant amount of money to bring in this new technology. Yes. >> Um, which has charcoal and filters and a and a and a process that's going to happen. >> Yes. It's not a complicated process. It is essentially just filtration, but it

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does require a great deal of carbon to do it. >> Okay. and you know that uh a lot of the uh the building that's going to be necessary and the treatment and all that stuff that's going to be on the Edison side where >> all of that is on the Edison side >> where we'll be tomorrow again you mentioned that there was some

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feasibility studies and middle sex water evaluated alternatives who who did that and and and just give us a minute or two on how that works. So, Middle Sex Water contracted with CDM Smith with the help of Jay Fletcher Kramer contract. >> Slow down.

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>> You can do it fast, but her fingers are not quite that fast. >> Very good. So, Middle Sex Water contracted with CDM Smith and Jay Fletcher Kramer to was the contractor building the construction to test. >> Give me one second. Could you do us a favor and just turn that off?

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>> Thank you. Sorry. >> So we tested Wait again. >> Okay. Sorry, Mr. Why don't you proceed? >> Roger. Can we just wait till so that she can hear everything? Two minutes hopefully.

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>> Sure. >> Assuming it can be revenue. If it was my phone, I'd give it to you and then neither one of us would stamp on it. >> You got it? >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> We were just talking about some of the

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alternatives and the process that you went through, >> right? So, what we did was we said that we purchased and rented a a pilot skid. It's essentially a bunch of small tubes that you fill with media and we took the the water from the effluent of our

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current filters and ran it pumped it through those to see which was the best at removing the POS that we had in the water. And while we did six different techniques and all six worked to varying degrees of success, the GAC contacttors

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was the most efficient, most economical. There's also we could have done GAC in vessels, steel vessels, but the size of that building would be get it really close to the Highland Park border, a much larger building. >> Uh, okay. Now, the the treatment you

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have an existing water plant there. We do. >> Right. So the the treatment of the water has to be at that plant of course, right? It's not like it could be at any other place. >> There's no we we we feed east Brunswick in the sideyard of our plant

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essentially. So if you if the water treatment was not there, we'd have to have multiple plants which would just be a financial disaster. >> And and how many customers is Middle Sex Water serving altogether? as you know off >> altogether we're about a quarter million

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individuals between wholesale and retail and Highland Park is a wholesale customer. >> Okay, the access road. >> Yes. >> Why uh why do you want to do that from a business standpoint? >> Right. We've been trying to get a secondary access road at this plant for

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about 15 years. The primary reason is while the Fair View Avenue entrance has suited us just fine for the last 50 so years. If there was something to happen on the approach or Fair View itself and kept us from getting to and from the plant, including chemical deliveries

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that we have on a on a weekly basis, the operators getting to the plant, there's no other way to get to the plant other than walking through people's yards. We had we couldn't go down Fairview Avenue. We tried to go where the warehouse currently is, but we can imagine Muckers

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wasn't keen on letting us uncover some of their property, rather sell to the warehouse and do much better than they would do with us. That that leaves us with the southern access point down the southern end of the plant site or closest to the rar and that's where that

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existing railroad bed was and Ruters uses it as access for themselves to the board member. Sorry, >> Ruckers access for themselves. to get to the culprit that is under that that embankment. So, we figured this was about our last opportunity to find a

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place to go because obviously the other side is northeast corner. There's no way we're getting across that and then the residential area would have essentially the same issues as the Fairview Avenue side. >> So, is the intended use only as a contingency access road on the primary

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road? Not >> we're going to talk about that. We're going to get to it in the next week. Just to give you a little preview so you're aware, the average truck traffic is about one truck per day. Just so you know, >> on the new road

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>> on the new road, >> just so we're going to get to it. It's sort of condensed. It doesn't happen. So, we're like there's a week when there's going to be 25 trucks and then nothing for no trucks for five weeks. That's for the new system. and then two

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to three trucks per week for the existing operation. So, I just wanted to front that with you to let you know we're we're not creating a super highway. Overall over over the course of a month, we're talking about one truck

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per day on average. That's the sort of and we're going to get to that with the next witness. Truck are we talking? >> Uh do you know, Brian, >> it would be the semi-tractor trailer size. It's open top moving the carbon in and out.

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So that we we it's our intention to only direct trucks, not normal plant traffic except an emergency, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Um your existing plant there. >> I'm assuming that's water from the canal and from your wells in South Mayfield.

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>> It is only from the DNR canal. >> Only from the DNR canal. Are you uh you doing the coronation there? >> Yes. Will you be bringing trucks full of corine through park? >> If we are, we already are. >> Well, right now you're taking

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not changing it. They're not going to change it. >> 287 >> through they have to have that. >> Sure. >> There's no tractor trails can get there from the northeast corridor side of Edison because of the low bridge right

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just over here. So they're all coming from the Cedar Lane side. Whether they come up through Highland Park or come down Planefield Avenue and through Edison, I don't know the answer to that question. But whatever they're doing now is what they're going to continue to do for the chemical for the chlorine

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delivery. And we don't get, just so you know, we don't get the 14% hypocchlorite. We make our own chloride on site. So we tend to get salt. >> You're cracking it there. >> Yeah. Yes. to make it live. >> Like a big sand filter there or so or is that

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>> we do the uh these two buildings here have sand and amphasite filters in them. This was the original set 8. This is X4 to do all the traditional filtration of your water. >> With your new process that you're putting in place, you're going to need to replenish and replace the activated

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charcoal. >> Yes. >> On a regular basis. >> Based on our pilot study, you're looking about a year. How many tons do you have to bring in every year? >> You tell me exactly how much PES will be in the water when it starts. I can't answer that for sure, but Dave, we have

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to wait for days to get that done. >> Could you hold that question, sir, for a little more technical >> question? Will this otherwise improve water quality or it's really all about testing? >> It will absolutely otherwise improve water quality. GAC is not a selective

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media. It will absorb anything that that it comes across that it likes. Um, it's also good at pharmaceuticals. It's primarily used. We have to use it now. We have to use lowd dose carbon now for taste and odor and for upsets in the DNR canal. Someone spills some diesel in

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there. >> What's the route that the water takes on? Is is this unrelated on river road? >> I suspect. Oh yeah, the river road. That's the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. The Highland Park, the 20 and the Culver. Yeah. Yeah. Does this due process also remove some of the

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trace pharmaceuticals that are showing up in our work? >> It does. >> Um, >> yes. >> One question. >> I think um you're talking about filtering out the PAS to meet the new standard. >> Yes. >> And as I'm not sure everybody knows, PAS

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is extremely toxic. It stays in your body for decades and causes all kinds of health problems. That's why the state standard. Sure. So, I'm wondering where it's going into the charcoal. >> Yes. >> Because that's what's filtering it out. What how long is that the contaminated

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charcoal sitting there and where is it sitting? And how do you prevent what's in that charcoal from getting out in rain and snow and other things that happen? >> Fair question. First of all, the the these new contacts are are inside, so

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they're not exposed to the elements. But one of the primary drivers for going with GAC is it is a renewable media. But what happens is as it absorbs more and more PAS once it's loaded up to the point where there's no dollar doing its job, we ship

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it up, we pack it up in the trucks that deliver the new stuff, bring it back to the manufacturer, they put it through a kiln at several thousand degrees and reactivate the carbon which destroys the POS. >> So they take care of it. >> Yes. So, how how how what's that cycle

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though? How long do we keep it until you're ready to load it up on the truck and send it back? >> As soon as it as soon as it's expired, as soon as it's no longer doing its job with us, we get it out. >> So, so what is that time frame? >> Couldn't be any more than a week or two. >> So, you constantly bringing in new and

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sending out. >> We have 10 contacts. We expect to have them happening once a year. So, you you stagger them. So there be about 10 maybe 11 events in a year where we have where we are reloading contacttors. >> But you just said every week you're

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going to send the used >> you after it's expired. It last the freshly activated carbon lasts for almost a year >> and then when we don't want we don't it's sitting there not removing PAS doesn't do anybody any good. >> So so it's sitting there doing this work

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collecting the PAS for about a year. >> Yes. and and it's inside so it's protected from weather and other >> problems and but it's we're not keeping it. We do send it back to whoever we buy the charcoal. >> Yes. We send it back to the manufacturer. They reactivate it. We get

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back the carbon they reactivate. So we you end up losing some in the process. Usually about 10% in the process you get 10% new 90% recycled. Right. Question of how many gallons you put through it, not time. Say it last for a year. It's really >> it's it's well it's it's concentration

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of pe how many how many how many molecules of pe >> and how many gallons go through it. Time really isn't relative. >> No, but just generally they're related. If you have if we average steady six parts per trillion, we could we could know exactly how much almost exactly,

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right? But if you look at our pas concentration coming from the raw water, it'll go down to two. it go up to six and then go back down to two and stay at two for three months and come back. It's all >> below the jersey level. >> Okay. Um

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may I >> Yes, you may. >> Okay. Um Brian uh you were looking for a secondary access road where uh that's like a general operational safety emergency services you know in case something happens uh on

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on Fair View and Edison uh it gets blocked. You want to have it's a critical resource obviously you want to have another way in. >> Yes that is important. Okay. So, uh, in addition to the new trucks that are going to be handling the co, uh, charcoal, you have two or three

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trucks a week that come down Fair View. >> Yes. >> As it is, what are those for? General deliveries. >> Yes. The different chemicals. We get some filter aids, which are polymers. I couldn't tell you exactly what they are, but there's two or three different chemicals that we get. We get we get

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pack deliveries currently, which is the powder version of GA small doses. Um I forget what else we can they come in the typical tanker trucks the semi tankers >> and and right now they're going down Fair View which is a residential street.

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Uh if the board does approve it and uh this gets constructed that'll be an opportunity to uh move those trucks off of a residential street albeit in Edison but it will be a chance to get them to come through the seg warehouse and use

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the hive park. Again, that's two to three trucks per week. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, low low quantity, but nonetheless coming down a residential street. You can uh >> and always during the day, always during business hour. We don't >> I think there's some charge restriction

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on your land. >> You're right. >> We could talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We believe I think that's more on the overnight on that. We're aware of that. Um um

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yeah, chair one, if you just give me one second, I think we're done. >> Okay. >> On our end. >> Um Okay. So, any members of the board have any additional questions for this

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professional? I'll wait for Mr. T. Okay. >> Um, any members of the public have any questions? >> Okay. All right. Then we are ready for your >> Okay. I'm going to call uh David Tanzy, a civil engineer.

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>> So you might be the sawyer for testimony that you're about to truth. So help me. >> I did. Please state your name. Tell me your last name and the location of your offices. >> David Tany TZ II. My office is camper CDM Smith

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located at 110 Avenue. >> And uh Dave uh can you give your uh professional qualifications, your degrees, and your experience in the engineering field? Yes, I graduated from Stevens Institute of Technology with a bachelor's of civil engineering and a

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master's in environmental engineering with a licensed professional engineer in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts. I've been with CD Smith since 1995, so over 30 years practicing as an engineer in the water field since

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that time. >> And your job title? >> I'm a senior project manager and also senior vice president at CS. And uh can you talk about uh some of the projects and presentations that you've made over your 30 plus years?

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>> Sure. Um I've been engineer record um between here in the Northeast for about 30 different engineering projects. I presented at over 50 conferences, technical conferences both locally, nationally, and regionally. I have a art

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authored four um technical papers in um in industry magazines. >> Okay. But uh tonight is your first night seeking to be qualified as an expert at a New Jersey zoning and planning board. That's correct. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Chairwoman, I would submit uh Mr.

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Tanzy as an expert based upon his educational background, his experience, his extensive uh project and project management uh experience. Although this is his first time being qualified. There always has to be a first time. Even if you have a little gray in the beard area.

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>> No problem. We accept his qualifications. >> Hold on. Hold on. Let me just ask a couple of questions. I gather. Although this is the first time you've testified in New Jersey. Have you testified that you said you are licensed in various other states? Greg. >> Correct. >> And you've dealt with projects in other states.

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>> I haven't. Since I'm not a qualified expert in the municipal land use law, if that's what it's called in other states, have you testified in in front of projects such as boards like this in those other states? >> I have not formally testified in other states this type of

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>> Okay. Uh I have no additional questions. Thank you. >> I don't have any questions. I think he's more than qualified. >> We okay to proceed. Chairman Okay, Dave. Um, I wanted to hit a few points from the engineering review

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letters first. Um, and we're going to get to truck traffic and the disturbance of the board members before we sort of go into the overview. Is that okay, Chairwoman? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, in the review letters, Dave, um, there was a question about tree removal in Highland Park and we have

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some of that. Can you quantify that and uh, for us? >> There's a total of um, 84 trees will be planted. Um there's 24 trees that are greater than 8 in but less than 20 in that will be removed and then nine trees

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greater than 20 in but less than 36 in and all toile to replant 84 trees in the Highland Park. >> Okay. And we got a letter uh seemingly an approval letter from May 20th from 2026 when the Highland Park Shade Tree

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Advisory Committee did at least it seems uh favorable. Okay. Uh, we talked about the number of trucks, Dave, coming in. You're, you know, the technical director, and I represented that every six weeks or so, there would be about 20

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to 25 trucks over the course of one week and then there'd be five weeks with no new trucks. Can you confirm that for the board? >> That's confirmed. Approximately a month. >> Okay. So every month and a half or so you get these 20 to 25 trucks condensed

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in a week and then no new trucks while they do the various change outs on the on the charcoal new trucks. Okay. Just want chair one a little complicated but I I think everybody's probably got that that you know they come in a in a week but then you got a couple of weeks with with

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nothing going on. And if you average it all out, proposed trucks, the existing two to three that come, we're talking on an order of magnitude of one truck per day. And let's talk about that a little bit.

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So the 20 to 25 trucks that come in once for one week every six weeks, what are those trucks for? What do they deliver? >> Sure. So as Mr. car I mentioned the new treatment facility will have GS granular activated carbon as the treatment

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technique. Um trucks will deliver that GC the media that will go in these large tanks 10 of them and then in a year that media will be have to be removed from the tanks and trucked out and then new media will be

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brought in. So those trucks, those 20 to 25 trucks are solely for the GAC media. That is new media is coming in and old media is going out. >> Explain. Hold on one second. Give me a chance. >> Sure. The fact of the matter is you're saying there's 20 to 25 trucks. However,

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Mr. Far indicated that the media last approximately one year. And I'm trying to get a sense of the the relationship between the two. Why is it that there's a need for 25 trucks for one week when the media lasts for a year? Why isn't it

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spread over a longer period of time? Notwithstanding, but Mr. Slottnik says if you average it out, of course, we all know as an engineer, you absolutely know you can make numbers and do anything. So, the real question is for those for that one week, there's going to be a lot

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of trucks. So, why can't it be set up so that instead of 20 or 25 trucks coming in at one week and you're only having one or two the rest of the time, why can't they be spread out so that there's only on average two and a half trucks over that period of time or something

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like that? Anyone? >> Yes. So, so with that, when the vendor is coming in to change out the media, um they're going to change it out in a condensed period. U the water company wants to keep the plant operating. So they want they don't want to keep nine

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filters operating and one down. They'd rather keep all 10 operating. So they are losing capacity while they're doing the change out. So it's really to minimize the change the time the change out. >> I I Okay, I I get that part. I mean I can understand you don't want to close

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down, you're less efficient, etc. But I still don't understand why you need to have 25 trucks every six weeks when in fact if you are in a situation where the media lasts for a year why don't you end up having 25 trucks once a year and then

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the rest of the time simply having the one or two that has been referenced by uh my colleagues so so Brian mentioned there's 10 of these let's say swimming pools 10 large tanks every month we're changing out that media in each swimming

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pool so over 12 months we're doing 10 change outs. So that 10 change outs, each change out takes 20 to 25 trucks for that change out. >> It's not just one tank. >> There's 10 individual tanks. So each of

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those 10 tanks will last up to a year. So start off the filters. >> I see. >> So you're taking out one tank per every six weeks. Correct. >> Now I understand. Every month if you had said that it would not apologize.

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I have to take some some heat on that. But I think the board understands sort of the frequency. We don't think it's a lot of trucks because even that is, you know, over the course of a workday and they we can schedule it during the workday. It's not going to be at night at all.

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>> Yeah. So, the water company will subcontract with a vendor to supply the media. So, they'll put together an annual contract or a two-year um annual contract. And in that contract, the water company is looking to write provisions that would require a vendor to deliver media during the day,

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daytime, not at night time, and not during the weekends. >> Dave, since we're on the trucks, we have a one-way situation and there's some internal gates. Can you give us a little overview of that? If you need a board,

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>> maybe that will help. Okay, we don't have Roger Thomas. We're showing you exactly what we have in the file. We don't have to read it. Right. >> But but do you need when you put it up there? Just make reference. >> Call out the shoot number Dave.

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So bottom right hand corner sheet number 005- C as a cat-6 dated April 2026. Thank you. >> So there's these trucks that are delivering new media to the treatment plant. Trina plant is over here. The new

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peas facility is in the center left of page. New access road is to the west of that. Uh if you're looking at that figure, the segment warehouse is is here. Um Cedar Lane is is up here. So the intent

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would be for trucks to come off Cedar Lane into this private roadway that is owned and operated by Zay, the owners of the warehouse. There will be a will be a 24 foot wide farm barrier gate

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located off the entrance to the new access road. Uh when the truck pulls up, uh the truck operator will dial and make contact with the operators that sit inside the existing treatment plant. Uh

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there'll be a camera there. So the operators will see what the truck is, their license plate, that it's the truck being delivered for for for this facility. Uh the operator will remotely open that swing arm. So the swing arm

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will come up. There's traffic signals on this side and this side there'll be another gate as we get closer to to the trio plant. When the swing arm goes up, the traffic light turns green. That truck then

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proceeds along the repurposed driveway, the new access road. Swing swing arm gate closes behind it. the traffic light turns red, not allow any other traffic to go through. Swing arm comes down. That truck proceeds around the curb to

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another um chain link automatic slide gate. As that truck approaches, that slide gate will open and allow the truck to come in. When that truck passes, the 50ft slide gate then closes

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and truck lights turn to red. trucks do their delivery within this deboss facility. It will take a couple hours for each truck to either deliver the media or take out the media. And when the truck is ready to leave, essentially

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the process is reversed starting at the gate on the east side and then continuing truck will continue off the access road to to Cedar Lane. The attention is only >> the width of that road.

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>> The existing road width is make sure I have this correct. >> So existing existing. >> Okay. We're going to get to existing and then we'll get to propose. >> Sure. >> But I could you say existing you're talking about the fair view?

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>> No, there's there there is >> I understand there's a there's an existing seal of land but this is an extension. >> This is like a road. There's an existing roaded there that is used as Lauraai said. >> I think you're asking about the not Fair

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View but about the CE of the of the new access road. So the existing access road. >> Yeah. The the width at the narrowest point is 15 ft wide and at the widest point is about 18 feet wide.

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After construction, the the narrowest will be 18 feet and the widest will be about 32 feet. Where we're across the existing uh stream, it's about 18 ft and we're leaving it at that width. Not to

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>> essentially it's a one. >> Yes, sir. It's a one control. So, so between the between the barrier arm on the west side, the slide gate on the east side, the operators who man the plan 247 will control access in

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and out through that driveway and it is acting as a oneway lane. >> So, the arm would prevent pedestrian traffic, but the sliding gate will >> uh in order to pass the arm on the west side, it would have to be remotely open

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by an operator with You control vehicular traffic. I was asking about pedestrians. >> Pedestrian. No pedestrian could be secure. Correct. Yes. Unless they climb. >> And what about the grading? I I thought there was some significant grading. >> Yeah. I think Dave, you want to talk about some of the design considerations

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and we are seeking relief uh some relief uh because there is grading concerns. >> Show me where the road passes over the creek. So the existent the existing creek um is

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a better if I may grab a >> and Dave if you just call out the sheet. >> Oh okay that would be great. We got another sheet 005 >> 05 >> 005-3 called access road existing condition

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plan dated April 2026 point can't see it come over and show you there's an existing there's two 24 in metal pipes which are are here so the

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today's water from distribut those are the two new corrugated because they washed out >> and that's I think what you were referencing earlier Irene >> it was when Ruckers did that it's been a while and that's one of the

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reasons for this for the existent access road so Ruckers utilizes that existent access road for construction equipment um and vehicles on a regular basis to their responsibilities of of that certain access road is utilized by Ruckers to

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maintain that that's where it's located. >> So So Dave, why don't you talk about some of the design considerations while we're on it? Why' we go with one way? What did you do to minimize a disturbance? Is there any way to do this without having some disturbance of the

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steep slopes and so on and the restoration plan I think we're >> much more impervious virtual drain into that >> uh we did a pretty comprehensive flood hazard analysis flood zone our

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work is not raising the level of of Northwest >> I'm sorry I can't hear you. >> I can't hear you. You you gota I think you got to hold the mic. >> Yeah.

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>> Question was how much additional with the additional impervious how much will impact the overall flow of culver. Our calculations that we that we prepared and been submitted to New Jersey flood hazard area verification not come permit

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is not showing any change in any of the different um flood zones 110 flood zones with our proposed projects. >> We we do have a lot of storm water facilities mostly in Edison. >> Yeah, there's there's three bio retention basins that are being

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constructed as part of the project. Uh a portion of one of the bio retention basins is in Highland Park. Um >> it connects to this area. >> It does. They drain to drain drain to that >> environmental buffer. Would you comment

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on the environmental buffer? >> Yeah. You want to go through one by one? >> Yeah. Maybe >> you want to try to lead. Okay. So >> add on to that though. Do you know how many trees you'll be taking down?

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>> Yeah. There's 24 trees that are greater than 8 in but less than 20 in. And there's nine trees greater than 20 in and less than 36 in. And doing the math, we're replacing with 84 new trees all in park. You have a in your packet. There

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is a landscaping plan. >> Are any of the trees being removed currently serving as buffer to the apartments? >> Let me bring out the if I could. We'll get to all the questions. They're coming at us and we're gonna >> Wow. >> Um, so as long as you're collecting

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questions, I didn't really understand what you were saying about degrading the slope, changing the slope, increasing the slope, >> and you sort of indicated that it would have no impact on um, you know, storm drainage and flood flood plane, but you

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need it for a particular reason. And it it's hard to believe that it would have no impact because you know um take an example everybody knows like Florida Everglades. You know why it's not a swamp and it's a river of grass?

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A tiny 10 degree slope. Slope has a huge impact. That tiny 10 degree slope can change an entire habitat. So I would like to better understand why you need it and why you're saying that it has no >> Sure. And I'll get to that. And we're not really changing the grade end of the

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existing management. The slopes are are more or less the end the same. >> Okay. I was just looking at the documentation did say 30% to 34%. There were those slopes and disturbance. So we're not actually recreating the I could explain the disturbances. Um >> just give us a second. We're going to

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show you where the storm >> Yeah. trees then we'll do where the storm water basin is and then we'll come back to the disturbance and the slopes. So we've had to close road five times already this year just down the street there.

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>> So this is 005- C in the cat- 23 access road landscape tree removal and replacement plan dated April 20. So if you look at that, if you want to see what are being removed, those are

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they have next that goes through them and new trees that are being planted not have necks next to them. Uh there's numbers or call outs for each of the new trees which are being installed and the type of tree and number of tree and

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pieces of tree is uh is shown on this 23. >> Yeah, that's 005- C-23. That sorry did that answer your question. >> Are we okay with that miss Walsh? Yes, >> for now you're >> okay. So that was trees

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>> and the calculation that we were is in that top box showing the number of trees we removed and the number pause for a second trees. We're going to move on. If you could just do a quick overview of the storm water facilities

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you mentioned primarily in Edison. I think your engineer is going to weigh in and he has basically said he'll speak for himself that it makes sense since it's a 9010 situation. 90% in Edison,

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10% in Highland Park. Let the Edison folks review the storm water system and then we're agreeable to a condition that says you can come back and sort of review it later to double check, >> right, >> the uh chairwoman. Um, so he's sort of

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that normal detailed storm water. I think your engineer said it makes sense for Edison to do. We're in that process. We think we're going to be fine with Edison, but we're also agreeable to a recheck uh with the understanding >> subsequent compliance review.

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>> Correct. >> With the understanding that it's also going in front of the D for their review as well. I can go through the um the status of those permit applications if you'd like. Whenever >> we don't need that level of detail, but

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I think the board appreciates we are at the D for a series of permits. Some of them have been issued the flood hazard uh determination of wetlands letter of interpretation, but there's additional permitting that has to take place. And

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that's of course always a condition of an approval that you go get your approvals from the D. But that doesn't mean we don't have to address your concerns. I'm not trying to say that. But uh uh Dave, let's let's just take a look at where the sort of the combined

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storm water facilities are so we can orient the board and then we'll we'll talk about the the grades and and what's being disturbed. Just one question for our professional. Do we need any kind of an intermunicipal agreement on oversight

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for storm water management? >> No. And then no because their storm water management system is primarily within Edison County. >> Okay. >> So we do want to see their review and approvals

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>> and we need to share the mic so that we could have everything reported properly. Thank you. Yeah, we do want to see the approval from Edison Township Storm Water Management >> and we're agreeable to that

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>> Dave, we're going to sort of brief overview of storm water and then we're going to get into a little more on disturbances. So I'm looking at sheet 005- C-06 overall site plan. This is what we looked at before. Let's go through the

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proposed storm water facilities. Again, most of these are on Township Health property. There's three bio retention basins. Bio retention basin one on the west side, bio retention basin number two, and then bio retention basin number three. Those three bio retention basins

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uh will primarily be responsible for draining any any water to to the north creek and across the city west side. >> Yeah. So significant storm water improvements to the overall area with

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the construction of these new facilities. Dave. >> Yep. Yep. And you know the the storm water facilities as well will uh will attest to have been designed to the 20 January 20 26 majority storm water management rules not the old.

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>> So we're using the new rules even though the grandfathering is still up for grabs. >> Our applications being administratively complete before they took that but we still are using the new rules. >> Hey Miss Tatton in her with her planning hat is going to say hey there's there substantial storm water improvements. or

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benefits to the public. Can you talk about that a little bit from from your technical standpoint in terms of adding your new features and how that improves what's going on out there? The storm water facilities have designed four or four criteria. Um, you know, we are

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meeting erosion and control standards. Uh, that's been designed applications are pending with the free soil conseration uh district. uh groundwater recharge the project son will will test to is is exempt um from

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from that storm water quantity requirements um are through the three bio retention basins and bio retention basin one two and three then storm water runoff quality requirements will be installing and approved

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BOF filter um that's approved by the DS Are you suggesting that actually when you're done storm water manage will be better than it is now? I would I would say that the stronger management will be better when the project is complete

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offset the more runoff the additional improve and to be clear all the Edison part is uphill and strain down towards our reset up here that look at the FHA model that we did

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>> and that and the up But it all comes down. It all comes down to that little creek and that goes to those two 24 pipes. Goes to the two existing 24in pipes. >> And the up here that you're referring to is on the norly side. >> I'm sorry. >> And the uphill up there that you're talking about is on northern side flowing from north to south.

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>> Flowing from north to south. Yes. >> Mr. T, can I clarify something? >> Why don't you Why don't you give That way you won't talk this project. We did look at this home management report. So it is something we are actively doing as well.

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>> Can I ask Chris a question? >> Yes, of course. Chris, are the two 24 inch pipes adequate to deal with, you know, the anticipated runoff? I know it's they blew it out once. Is it at risk? You know, we're getting more and more of these 100year storms.

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>> Are you going to hold on? Are you going to leave those corrugated uh pipes under the road as they are or it's going to be improved? Right. >> Yeah. The question is are we leaving the two corrugated pipes as is part of the

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project although they're owned by Ruckers we are planning to um structurally line them improve them those pipes are about 140 ft long each one and we're going to use a um a structural class for lining so

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kind of pipe inside a pipe so a new pipe inside the existing pipe to improve the structure integrity of both of those >> that doesn't increase the capacity. >> No. And the problem wasn't that they collapsed. The problem is that they got thrown out and washed downream, right? Maintenance wise, there's so many

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maintenance what they do. And >> Chris, are they adequate? I mean, you >> know, it's okay. Our storm water engineers did review it and not come up with any issues with the capacity. >> Any issues?

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Okay. >> And just to add that to that, um, New Jersey, they did approve our hazard FHA verification line. And as part of that approval, um, they did concur with the two 24 in colors are adequate as part of

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the verification that we received on those. I'll tell you, Dave, I'll bring it. I'll bring it. We got new batteries. I can shout. >> We would like to see all the approvals that we received. You want to hold on to it for a sec?

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Okay, we're gonna just shift now to the word concerns um about uh the steep slopes. We're going to take that first. So Dave um we are looking for some uh relief. It's not a variance. I just want

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the board Chris pointed this out. This is not this does not rise to the variance level because it's in your site plan ordinance. So the standard is sort of one that says are there practical difficulties, practical difficulties. It's not the

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more uh strict C1 or C2 criteria for a variant. It's a lower level. Is there a hardship? It sounds a little like a C variance, but the the uh case law and the statute say are there practical uh

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difficulties for this for the steep slopes for the Yes. an exception a site plan waiver if you will for the three steep slopes. We have another one that deals with the stream coroner which is a little different that's in the variance

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category. They all kind of group together. So Dave, can you talk about the challenges? You you testified you you wanted to take advantage of the existing disturbance. Uh but we we got to move some dirt around to be able to

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build this safely. >> Titled steep slope analysis existing conditions topography. is also dated April 2020. >> And this is in your packet also. So that's it. >> Yep. In your packet. Exact same verbatim.

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Okay. There you go. >> Copy. So Rick said slopes greater than that are not allowed or not in accordance with ordinance. The ordinance has different um steep slope categories. less than 10% 10% about 15%

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15 about 20% 20 to 25% and above 25%. Each of these colors represent one of those categories. Uh there's a table showing the overall area total. So we'll take the red which is less than 10%. If

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you add up all the red that equates to in Island Park about 3.36 acres. There is limited disturbance shown on those figures. It's this dashed line to the north and to the south of the

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proposed access road. So that's our limit of disturbance. How much we're actually disturbing is the fourth column. So area within the limit of disturbance. Um

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your maximum allowed disturbance is the far right column. And then what we are proposing to serve is located in the second to last couple. So we're requesting waiverss for

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not less than 10. Requesting waiverss for the 10% to about 15%. Um 15% to about 20% 20% to 25% and 25% or or greater

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or the waiverss. I'm sorry, not the 10 to 15%. The bottom three, 15, 20, 20, and 25 and 25% or greater are the three waiverss that we are requesting the existing access road as as uh Mr. Todd said, you know, it's an existing

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railroad embankment um about 18 ft wide. Uh we're not looking to change the horizontal alignment of that. Um, you know, if we're looking at alternatives, we'd be looking like looking looking at a whole new access road, um, you know, ripping this one down, you know, a lot

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of disturbance to the existing slopes. So, we're really utilizing the existing embankment and repurposing that for our new access road. The amount of disturbance, you know, within this limit of disturbance, that limited disturbance is really for tree removal construction

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activities. We're not actually going in and you know with this let's say this purple over here we're not going in and regrading that. So that slope is staying the stain we are disturbing it by removing trees or planting new trees. We're not actually re we're not actually

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um regrading that area. We have a small small amount of regrading um over here kind of at the bottom of of the of the happy face. Um but it's a small amount here but everything else that limit service is really related to tree

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removal tree planting silk fence at the limits to contain construction activities. Is this really the best location given that you have that roaded there you know to limit the disturbance or you know writ large you want to try to limit the disturbance if you can.

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>> Yes, as Mr. car said there's number of older alternatives they looked at over the years none of them were were feasible so again repurposing an access road >> did you look at any alternatives in your current plan >> in our current planning all the other terms that we have looked at in the past

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have um taken but no longer viable and the water company's been working on this for 10 to 15 years um so at this point you know the warehouse built there's you know this is this is it for a second access road. >> Well, you talking about alternatives using this property or just alternatives

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at any place? >> Alternatives for less disturbance. This may this property. >> Got it. So, like Dave, I I think what I'm trying to get at maybe Miss Walsh is saying like, you know, if you you know, if you moved it left or right or try a

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different angle, who could be any better? >> So, we minimize disturbance really by keeping it oneway traffic, right? If we're looking at two-way traffic, we would be widening the entire road and regrading both sides with a lot more disturbance. Uh where we're crossing the

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the stream corridor is already at a minimum or it's already at 18 ft. We're not really changing that. Um so we're really, you know, only the the largest change is is up here. We're already on the water company's existing property and really off the embank. Uh this road

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is about 650 ft long and about 500 feet of that is in Highland Park. Um so with respect to minimizing um yes utilizing the existing pen is in my opinion the best way to minimize disturbance

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>> doing the one way with this with that gated system because that that allows you to do a more narrow >> narrow >> situation. So that's how they, you know, use the existing and narrow it as much as you can. It's not that complicated,

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but you know, some something too with that you appreciate the gate system because you you can't have the cars passing each other. So they have a way to reasonably do that. David, from a civil engineering standpoint, reasonable compromises in a complex situation,

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would you say >> given the minimal number of vehicles that'll be entering exit? Yes. Okay, again coming back to the sort of the legal standard hardship, practical difficulties,

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uh I take it from an engineering standpoint, you're not seeing another solution that also gets you the benefits of that important secondary access that this is really the minimum grading and the minimum disturbance in the steep

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slope areas to get a second access point >> to safely allow trucks to the past few seconds. >> You're not aware having talked to Middle Sex Water of any other location on any offsite property anywhere that could give you this secondary access. We're of

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course constrained by train tracks crossing nose but correct runs up here. It's even wider up there. So this is the most logical place for a second room. >> Okay. We do also have that stream card

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protection overlay zone. Miss Tom's gonna be talking a little bit about that. I'm not sure which properties it covers, but is there any way to avoid this also sort of this is all part of the package. >> It's really all part of the all part of the steep steep slope. Um if you and

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it's little hard to see in your figure um this time I had indicated earlier the 100year flood plane is shown kind of this dark black line above the dark black above the dark dashed line. Uh

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also at 50 ft is the to the south is the 50 foot stream corridor protection zone. So between the this is on the the bottom or the south side of the access road. There's a dashed

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line um in bold and then there's a little lighter dashed line right below a dark line. That line there is the stream corridor protection zone. So our disturbance is within that 50t between

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there and and there. But again, going back to the disturbance, the majority of disturbance is tree removal and protection of the construction zone. >> Dave, how are you going to drain the storm water off the road? Where are you going to drain it to? >> Uh storm drain. Uh let me have there's

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there's two storm catch basins here and there are um catch see everyone can see this. I'll keep this up. There's two catch basins here. So water will either flow to the

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to the west or to the east. The um contained or caught by these catch basins. Uh there's storm piping storm manhole storm hill all flowing to the to the east uh into that bio retention basin number one. Part of that

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bio retention basin number one is on Highland Park property and the rest of it is on Edison Township property. How's the road going to be accessed from Cedar Lane? Because there it's right. It's the property starts in the rear.

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So, the frontage is owned by somebody else. Correct. >> We have their owner's consent to come here and we're going to have to show for you the formal easement document which is still being drafted, but we do have a

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consent from SegMe, that warehouse owner, that said we're allowed to make the application. And I think your professionals pointed out, hey, we're going to want to see a formal easement document >> and with that bound inscriptions and plat been prepared for both Ruckers per

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ement also permit easement. So Mr. Carr and and his office is working through that. uh Ruckers uh we are told that it should be on their fall board meeting for for approval and then the board company is still working with segment A to work out terms of

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>> we appreciate we'd have to show the real property rights I'm going to call them Dave just to clarify we're not putting any cars through here you know regular the cars from the uh folks who work there's still going to come up and down

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Fairview and Edison this this is for the truck access only. >> Yeah, that is the intent. Unless for some reason, you know, there's emergency at the plant and Fairview Avenue was closed and personnel had to keep offering a trailer plant, you know, that could be used as an emergency. >> Okay.

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>> While we're back on the topic of trucks for a second, >> okay, >> um these trucks that are going to come and do the loading and the unloading, are there is there going to be any um period of time any idling like on the Harlem Park side while this is happening?

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So the question is there would be any higher trucks on the Highland Park side as they're accessing this gate. The intent is that first swing arm gate the trucks would pull up to that. That truck would all be on the private segment property. Uh the plan would not be stage

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any trucks on Cedar Lane. Um one truck enters and then the intent is for the subcontractor that's supplying the media to stagger their deliveries. They're not going to send out 20 trucks in the factory all at once. Uh they would like at least stagger two or three

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and then come deliver the media, take out the media. Um and it's over a week process as as R said earlier. >> We've we've we've beaten that to the but they're coming there's room for them to there's room to for the truck to come

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off the public road onto the segment property. We we we purposely located the first swing arm far enough into the proposed access road to allow at least one trucks to to be on that. So in other

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words, you guys would are stipulating that in fact during that period of time once every six weeks that of the 25 trucks for that week, they will be staggered in a way uh that they will not be either idling uh either on the new access road, the Sney property or in any

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place in um uh Holland Park for any period that would be in excess of 10 or 15 years. >> Correct. That's an intent. But there are >> No, no, no. That's not the intent. That's going to be a condition of approval. >> But but but there are traffic conditions

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outside the road that change things and things can get backed up. Even if you have planned the best way possible to not have that happen. So we have to understand better how often you would expect that. We often often I drive

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through this area and I find surprising tie-ups all over the place. So, we need to consider that with this. These trucks aren't going to be landing from the sky to this road. They are going to be coming from other not well-managed New

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Jersey roads. >> Well, you want to address that, Dave? >> The intent is when they drive up to that first swing arm gate process to allow them into the plant should be no more than a few minutes. So, think about the truck

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driver pulling up, getting out of his cab, pressing a button. Hi, my name is so and so. I'm here from manufacturer X here for your delivery. The operator acknowledges it, allows the arm gate to come up. The

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operator truck driver gets back in his truck, drives through. That process is only takes takes a few minutes. So, >> or worry's going to call on his cell phone because he knows the guy with the >> But, but you're right. at any time. You know, we could stipulate frankly all we want, but I can't

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physically force manufacturer not to send them all out at once. There's traffic laws and if you have truck island on the side of the road, they'd be free to get ticketed by park. >> Well, but hold on. I think you can actually you are the the recipient and I

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think you can have as part of your contract uh a stipulation that indicates that you that you Mr. contractor are not going to issue or send 25 trucks all at nine o'clock in the morning. You can have a contract stipulation to that. Now, I understand that doesn't

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necessarily uh deal with the uh members concern during the course of traffic issues and stuff, but you can have a contract stipulation. >> That that would be the the intent. Yes, >> we're we're trying to do what's right here. You know, you I think you appreciate that. So, you know, the the

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volume, it's not crazy volume and we can do what we can do, but we understand the concern. There is room for the design to make sure at least on the road that there's at least one full slide. And I and I think that

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>> make it less likely that that traffic as as pointed out by having your contract make sure there are more than adequate spaces between every say four trucks. Yeah, I think practically speaking, I'm not an expert in this area. I go to an

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office, but the truck driver is going to get to know the security people and I don't think, you know, they're going to give them a call and they're going to put the gate up. It's not going to take that long. It doesn't seem like it's >> But again, the intent is for the water company to write a stipulation in their subcontract agreement with their vendor

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to limit the number of trucks they're sending to deliver the uh to the plant at the same time. by default saying trucks that are leaving. So that is the company. >> I had a question. It looks like there's a little

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>> on the satellite there's a little piece of an improved road. >> Yeah. So someone asked for sorry as fence. you went out there this past weekend and you took it up and there's a um >> there's an existing fence there and there's guard rails on on either side

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>> and a gravel road >> and then a gravel road after the the guard rail and that gravel road um >> that gravel road um you know extends you can see on this drawing there's guard rail and asphalt pen on you really on the Edison side and then it stops and

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become a gravel road um till it gets to the water company's property and that's you know maintain by seg and rotors. So that's the guardrails. >> You're largely following that gravel road. >> Yes sir, we are. >> And will they be guard rails?

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>> There will be guardrails and curves. Guard rails will be um designed with um TUCD NJ standards >> and soil on the side will be stabilized. >> Soils on the side will be stabilized.

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>> No public. But there's no public on this. This is not any sort of public vehicles but as one gentleman said um public pedestrian can walk around that but then you or she would be stopped at the um

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other gate closer to >> similar to what's >> Dave one of the professionals asked about the timing for construction anticipated start date uh and uh and duration >> company is seek fund in from New Jersey

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infrastructure. The I bank uh drawn specifications and contract documents are in with the I bank for approval water company cannot give the job approval from D and they have to have all the permits in place. We're expecting that to happen in late this

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year. So late 2026, um if that occurs, we'd be looking to issue a contract, an award, and a notice to proceed in early 2027. And then we're looking at a contract duration of about 30 months for the entire project.

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>> Okay. There's some targets under federal law, I believe. >> We're trying to meet the as Mr. Carr said, the April 2029 compliance date. Um where were the uh excuse me, where were the construction traffic come from Fair

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View or this new road? >> If I was a contractor, I would love it for it to come through the new access road, but the intent is for all construction traffic to come from Fair View through the existing um facility. Um the water company will have a staging area on the property on the um uh really

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at the front of their entrance on Fairview. Uh so the water company in 2024 not complete construction of a new ozone facility at the treatment plant and all construction traffic came from Fairview Avenue and the intent for this project would be that all construction

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traffic would also be coming from Fairview Avenue. Thank you. You're welcome Dave. We have customary uh lighting and other utilities here. Um electric along the road. anything out of the ordinary

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here? >> No, we have minor electric. Um, again, the tree plant is up here. So, we'll have electrical conduit um running along the access road uh to the gate on the west side for the swim gate to operate. Um,

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and then the only other utility will be the storm sewer don pointed out earlier. No lighting. Uh there will be there will be lighting. We're looking at a total of

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six light poles spaced about 100 feet apart. This row is about 650 ft. So lighting spaced about 100 ft apart. Pole mounted LED lights, photo cells, um shields to to shield light from the

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development to the south of that. >> You're expecting deliveries at night. >> No, sorry. Complant. Excuse me. >> Night sky compliant. >> Lights would be night sky compliant and no deliveries at the night time. So going back to the stipulations on the

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contract between the water company and the GAC media supplier. Uh stipulations would be that also deliveries could only take place between 8 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. Monday or Friday. >> I'm sorry. What I I missed that. I was writing something. What what did you say

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was the period where the trucks will be arriving at the meeting? What would be maximum period? >> Yeah. The border company would write in their subcontract agreement with the media supplier that deliveries would only be allowed 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 pm Monday through Friday. So no weekends

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and nothing after 5:00 p.m. >> So the lights would really be on timers or for emergencies. >> It's dark at 5 sometimes 4:30. >> Yeah. >> Or if they change daylight saving time,

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>> they wouldn't always be on. >> No. not always. >> Um Dave, anything else that you have? I've flipped through your outline here. I think I got most of it.

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>> Yeah, just to sort of recap, you know, uh the disturbance is the main issue. We appreciate that fact. The standard is not the higher standard of a of a variance but a lower a slightly lower standard of practical difficulties. It

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does use the hardship language which is like a C variance but um uh I think I'm making the argument to you. We've done what we could do here. Uh it's a balancing Dave right to use the existing embankment uh take advantage of that

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minimize disturbance but also get the benefits of that secondary access route. Anything to >> I know >> are we going to address the location of the storage shed and what will be stored in the shed? >> Uh sure. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you. We always we will we

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always forget about that also a little bit but all right Dave okay >> drawings for that kind of job >> thank you I'm going to put up a figure showing where the existing storage is first

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this should be in your packet 005-c C-01 overall conditions plan dated April 2026 existence existence storage is if you look at this figure there's a call out

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for C1 >> Laura is helping >> thank you Laura >> that's yeah we'll have to mark it I guess I'm sorry. >> We're going to mark this A2. I I apologize. >> This is a new exhibit.

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>> No, it's it's the same exit, but he's drawing on. >> And I And this I think you said this was uh >> 01 01. The overall sheet CO1. >> I call it 01 rendered.

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>> Okay. >> Give it a lovely name with >> 01. I'm not sure what happened. >> Okay. >> So, I I marked out in a green box right next to the word CDM-1. Essentially, that storage is a hut. Um

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it's on existent concrete blocks. Um almost like what you see um um with store um sand and salt for for trucks. Uh just a a plastic um shed that sits on top of concrete blocks on on the three

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sides. >> Like a dome like a salt dome. >> It's almost like a salt dome. similar cylinder, >> but but it's enclosed on all four sides with a door on one side.

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>> Yeah, that that door is on the the north side. >> It's about 1500 square ft. Correct. >> So, that's where it's currently located. I'm going to show you where it's going to be relocated to. So going back to the overall site plan C

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dash I'm sorry 005- C-06 plan that's it >> uh they there's >> mostly snowy snow cloud right now >> yeah there's No, there's no no.

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>> Okay. And and why does it have to be moved? And are we meeting the setbacks? >> Has to be moved because it's in the way of proposed construction and we're looking to move it to the bottom left corner of the

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driveway property. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. >> Over here. So, it's in the way of these of the proposed new driveway within the plan. over here. >> Are trees being taken out for

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go back to the real plan? >> I don't think so. I don't think so. The trees are existed. There's some existing trees >> on the south side. >> All the trees are count.

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>> All the trees are the 84 that are being replaced 25. >> I have a general question. Sure. Are there any plans for further site development for facility upgrades beyond us? >> Ryan, you want to

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>> I'm sorry to get the big picture. >> I hear you. I hear you. I I hear you. And I And I'm now familiar with AI assisted questioning during planning and zoning board meetings. Wait a minute. We got it. Okay. More. So, no, there is no

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more planned use in the development of this lot until the federal government changes their mind and makes you do something else. >> There's no further planned improvements until the government regulates something else. That's right. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> I could

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I don't know. >> We answer to the best of our abilities. >> Answer is no. I don't have anything further from >> board members have any any additional questions >> professionals any Eric Chris

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>> okay >> okay chairwoman um our next witness is >> anybody from the public is all of us >> the next witness is about five minutes you want to try to do it and then I'm gonna ask Laura if she's okay >> you're good okay we'll do that and then

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maybe we'll take a couple minutes and then come back for the planner to wrap it up is That sound okay? >> How you doing? >> Good. >> How long is the planner going to take? >> 20 minutes. >> I'll leave it to you. >> Okay. What? Let's go with the traffic expert. He's only going to be five. Uh

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>> five. >> Call. Okay. Let's see. Whatever it is, I'm optimist. I'm optimistic. >> We're going to have him sworn. >> Uh sir, do you swear a friend testimony that you're about to truth? So help you God. >> I do. Would you be kind enough to state your name, spell last, and the location

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of your office? Sure. John Ray Rea. I'm a principal with McD and Ray Associates. We're a traffic engineering firm that has offices in Manisquan and Westfield, New Jersey. >> Thank you, sir. >> You're I'm a licensed professional

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engineer. Uh I've been doing uh I have over 50 years experience in the traffic engineering field. the last 40 of which have been doing consulting work here in the state of New Jersey. Educationally, I have an undergraduate degree in civil engineering from NJIT and a master's in

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transportation engineering from NYU and I basically count cars for a living and go to planning and zoning board meetings. Right. So, you've been qualified as an expert on at least a few occasions. Yes. >> I've testified in Highland Park before. I I was a while ago. I must say I've

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never had you appear before any board that I represent, but I'm certainly familiar with your firm and I think that your background is certainly >> Thank you. Uh John, you know, in in preparing uh Oh, we're okay on the qualifications. Okay. In preparing, uh

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uh you have a few observations. You did a report that we submitted. Uh you heard our chatter about the the secondary roads. Can you offer the board the benefit of your opinions based upon your experience? >> Sure. My my firm was uh integral in the

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uh planning and the uh discussion of how the trucks would approach and depart from the site knowing how many trucks would be coming. Uh previous witnesses have testified to the fact that uh with respect to new trucks once every six

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weeks there will be a weekly period when five trucks per day will enter and exit the site to bring the media onto the site and off the site. All of that new traffic and somebody from either the Walmart company or or somebody that's with the project can correct me if I'm

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wrong. It is my understanding that all of the new truck traffic will be routed through Planefield Avenue, Kilmer Road, and Cedar Land will not come through Highland Park. The existing two to three trucks per day that currently enter uh two to three trucks per week, excuse me,

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that currently enter and exit the site, they may be using Cedar Lane and Highland Park already. But if if they are, it's only going to be during business hours between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p. all of the truck restrictions will be obeyed as they're being obeyed today.

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So, the bottom line is I don't really have a lot to say with respect to the traffic impacts. We did do a traffic study at the intersection of uh where our uh driveway, which we're going to share with the Segmi warehouse intersects Cedar Lane opposite road one

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on the other side of Cedar Lane. That intersection has all of its movements operating at level of service C or better during peak hours. Level of service C is usually pretty it's pretty good for central New Jersey. And uh we're going to be adding

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once every six weeks we're going to be adding 10 trucks to that intersection. Five coming in, five going out over uh a business day, which is basically 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 pm. So you're looking at one truck entering the site every two hours, one truck exiting the site every

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two hours. It's a negligible impact. The intersection has the capacity to handle that traffic. And uh again, all of that new traffic is going to be routed through Planefield Avenue, Kilmer Road, and Cedar Lane. It won't be coming through Highland Park. So there'll be no

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left no trucks turning left onto Cedar Lane out of the >> uh none of the new trucks will be doing that. The two to three trucks per week that are currently accessing the site, some of those trucks may make the left. Only during business hours, only, you

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know, when they're permitted to do so between 8 in the morning and 5 in the afternoon. >> Are there good sight lines? >> Yeah, at that intersection. Yes. No issues at that particular uh intersection. >> Mr.

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>> I'm not sure. I maybe your engineering is Cedar a county road. >> It is. The county is going to have a review. The county's engineering department is going to check the sight lines out and there'll be a secondary review by the county.

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>> Um so your traffic study, how many hours and how many days? What did >> it was? uh 6:30 to 9 in the morning to capture the morning peak hour and 3 to 6 in the afternoon on a typical work day. >> One day, >> one day, >> but the DOT will install a traffic

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signal on a 1 hour count. >> But to understand really what's happening there, you have to look at seasons, holidays, you know, months. That that would be a real traffic sign. This is a data point. I would agree with you if we were uh construct if we were looking to get an approval for a large

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warehouse that was going to generate significantly more traffic. I would probably agree with you. But given the magnitude of what's being proposed here um five five trucks a day once you know

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every six weeks uh the you know the the industry the the institute of transportation engineers has uh basically guidelines for when you need a big full traffic study and essentially that number is 100 additional peak hour trips that are added to an intersection.

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We're adding two cabinet trucks, >> right? I I do understand that. But, you know, we're talking about these are small towns. These are not roads with huge capacity and we are already overloaded. We regularly have traffic jams

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>> on all of those roads, particularly PL. So, I'm not suggesting that you do what you would do if it was a hundred times the size, but I am suggesting that this project for our town is worth more than one day. >> I I respectfully disagree. We've done

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everything in accordance with industry guidelines. Let me just put it in perspective for you. Let me just answer your question to the best of my ability. During peak hours at the intersection of uh Cedar and Road One and our access road, there are over a thousand vehicles

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going through the intersection and a lot of truck traffic. We're going to be adding one vehicle to the thousand cars and trucks that are going through the intersection during peak hours. Nobody's going to even recognize it or not. >> Five day that that but

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>> five a day every day for a week >> for a week. But if you think about it, the business hours are essentially 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. It's a it's basically a 9-h hour workday. So, you're going to be adding one truck entering every two hours, one truck exiting every two

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hours. There already are over a thousand cars and trucks going through the intersection during peak hours. So, just to put it in context, >> and you're saying the truck the flash trucks are not going to be coming together. They're going to be staggered. >> Yes. Was

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records was records in session the day that you did the traffic study? Okay, good. Is there any consideration about a school bus drop off in because I I see school buses on that. >> There are school we we know I just looked at the traffic counts before and there quite a few school school buses

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going through the intersection but there really aren't any res there's no reason for a school bus to stop at this intersection to discharge or pick up. >> Yeah, down Cedar Lane but not at this particular intersection. the uh the carbon media. What's the other

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destination where they're taking it to and from >> the destination? I I would have to punt that probably to Mr. Car, but my understanding is that all of the new truck trips that are going to bring the media to the site and return the media to wherever it goes, they're going to go

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go through Edison. >> I mean, if they're coming up for 287, it's hard to believe they're going to make it all. >> I'm telling you what I've been told and that's the best I can do. But again, if anything changes, the trucks can only use Cedar Lane in Highland Park between

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8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. >> And nobody knows where that facility is. We don't have that contract yet, so I can't say. >> Makes the best. Yeah, it's the best answer I can give. >> Thank you, Mr. Ray. We've now been uh uh actually been helpful I think in the

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sense that you've defined the fact that during that six week that once per six week period uh we're going to send 20 to 25 trucks in effect what you're saying is five trucks per day for five days is that what you're your understanding to be

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>> correct and you've heard me indicate that I thought it would be reasonable to have a contract indicating uh that the trucks would be staggered as part of a contract factural arrangement. Is that unreasonable based upon your understanding? >> Definitely not unreasonable. Certainly at a zoning board level, not

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unreasonable. I think my clients agreed to do that. So we we agree. >> And in fact, um it would also be uh something that would have five trips, five trucks, not trips, five trucks per day, which is really 10 trips a day. We understand, >> right? Five, five,

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>> right? um it would be uh more than reasonable to end up having it so that uh they start off coming in at say nine o'clock and then an hour later and an hour later or or whatever it would be so that it's going to be set up in a way uh

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that there's a significant a significant lag time between these trucks so that some of the comments that were of concern by this board with things backing up because of traffic and everything else that could be accommodated by having that contractual arrangement saying that it be staggered

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with a significant time in between. >> I I I believe that's very reasonable and we can accommodate that. Maybe one truck entering every two hours and then staggered one truck exiting in that within that two-hour period that the trucks are entering, one will go out.

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And and lastly, it's been brought up uh by one of the members about the fact that well, you know, will the trucks really uh end up entering Fairview or will they enter uh uh Seedling? uh it

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would not be an unreasonable condition in light of the representations based upon your e extensive expertise in traffic control to have a condition that indicates that the existing trucks that are currently going through uh Fair View would be required to be will continue to

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do that and would not be authorized to enter on Cedar Lane. >> I don't think we that that's not the intent of the construction of the new road. It is to accommodate the new truck traffic for the media and the existing two to three truck

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>> and therefore a condition requiring that would not be unreasonable from a traffic safety viewpoint >> to require them to continue to use failure. >> Yeah, >> that was not the intent. >> It's not the intent by there's no reason we can't do that because they already they're already going that way.

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>> You want we can do that. Okay. I think my client just agreed to do that. So there you go. So, so for for the board council, the these could be if the applications approved, these could be binding conditions. >> That's why I'm bringing this all up. >> Very good. I'm >> just not listening to listening to

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myself talk. >> Okay, >> John. Uh, yes. >> Dave expressed from an operational standpoint the desire to have the secondary access. Can you just

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talk about that a little bit from Sure. Good traffic engineering practices? >> Absolutely. It is always for an operation like this, it is always advisable to have a second point of access for emergencies in case something happens on Fair View. I think it's extremely important for the plant to

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have a secondary emergency point of access. This will provide that. Although this is not a residential project, I'll just draw it to the residential site improvement standards. The state of New Jersey requires any single family subdivision that has more

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than 25 single family homes on a particular street, you need a second point of access. So the state recognizes how important a second point of access is for emergency vehicles and that's one of the reasons why we're providing it as well. >> Okay. And here of course we have

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critical infrastructure. This is our this is our clean drinking water system. I I I think it's very important that uh you know I I I think I made my point on the second point of access. It's my understanding that the water company has been trying to get the second point of

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access for some some point in time and now through the easement with the with the warehouse property they're able to do it. >> I have a point. >> Yes. >> Um because we're not talking about an emergency road connecting. We're talking

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about a road that's going to potentially have daily traffic on it >> only if something happened on Fair View that limited the you know that traffic couldn't enter on Fair View and and I don't know if that's happened and the it really hasn't happened. So we're look

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we're looking at something that hasn't happened yet but anything is possible and having the second point of access would would be a a viable you know way to handle an emergency on fair. But it's not just for emergencies. It's for like daily business.

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>> Oh, yes. Yeah. For the trucks. Yes. Yes. >> Just to say that's a distinction. >> Okay. In terms of the old versus the new and all, is there um any mechanism for determining if this is happening

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correctly or directing cars or trucks to go where we think they're supposed to go rather than where they choose to go? Well, I I would think one way of making sure that we adhere to what we testified to here

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tonight is to have the Highland Park Police, you know, enforce the truck restrictions on Cedar to the hours that they're allowed to be on Cedar. That would certainly be one way. >> As a as a practical matter though, I mean, let's be very frank. Does that mean that there's a a condition that a

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policeman is going to be standing there for uh eight hours? The answer is no. But the fact of the matter is what I have found in the vast majority of the towns that I represent. The way these things get enforced is the neighbors complain to the zoning officer and as a

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result they then get impacted and there's a notice of violation and either the applicant then corrects it or they go to court and nobody wants to go to court because frankly nobody wants to pay for the attorney to do that. >> I I agree with Mr. I agree with Mr.

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Thomas. I I think if there's an issue, the neighbors are going to let let the police know that there's an issue with trucks going down Cedar at 8:00 at night. >> Uh any additional questions from the board? >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> And obviously there's nobody in the public, so I guess we're good to go. >> Chair, I'm going to take five. Is that okay? >> Okay, everybody. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Take take a five minute break just to stretch. You end up just doing this

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line. >> Yes. >> You going to hit me? >> Yeah. Roll back. I wasn't counting the chair. Apologize. >> Okay, chairwoman, I'm going to recall Dorai Titan this time. You understand

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you're still under oath? >> I do. >> Okay. You haven't lost your license in the last hour and a half. >> No, it's still in good standing, >> thankfully. Uh and uh we talked about the fact that uh we're inherently beneficial.

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>> Yes. and that has uh some special uh standards. Could you give the board the benefit of your analysis? Talk about what that means to be inherently beneficial, how that leads into the balancing test. Uh with that twist I mentioned, we have a new case from the

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New Jersey Supreme Court just two weeks ago which sort of twists give a little added emphasis on the fourth step. if you if you uh talk to the board about those issues in light of the variances and the waiverss that we have.

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>> So it it it adjusts the uh the positive criteria a little bit. Um, and do you have to do the the four step seea balancing and then uh talk more about the four uh it used to be that you

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didn't have to speak as much about the >> no offense why don't you go through the four steps okay for the record and then >> yes >> what the positive stuff is what the negative stuff is uh you know what conditions might be reasonable and then we go to the new case

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>> okay so you are you saying to just tell you the reasons for all the four or list the four steps first. >> Uh I think you can >> just go through >> go just indicate what the first one is and then what the reasons are and then what the second step and then what the

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reasons are etc. >> Follow me. >> Yeah. >> Get right into the seeker of balancing way identify the positives. >> Right. Well, I want I want >> with enthusiasm. >> Yes. Well, I want to first identify the

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variances and waiverss that we're requesting to get those on the record. Ensure that >> we're in agreement that that's what we're requesting. So, the first one is the use variance for the access road because it's not a specifically

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permitted use in the ordinance. The second is a use varies for the bio retention basin because it's an accessory use and there's no principal structures and so on on the uh the box. The third is a devariance for the stream

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corridor protection overlay zone because it is a zone and not a design criteria. Um and in that there's also the road and the bio retention. Um the access road is

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actually if it is in public interest it's it is allowed. The bio retention basin is a prohibited use even though storm water outfalls are the there's another uh item that is brought up in

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the planner's letter with regard to the lots have no frontage. So technically the board would need to decide if you need to issue a permit because it has no frontage and there are two tests I have to testify about which I will do to make

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the record complete. Uh then we have two bulk variances. One for lot size on lot 12 and one for lot depth on lot 11. Two of the Ruckers owned lots. >> Those are existing not being changed.

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>> That's correct. I'm sorry. I The lot size is which lot? >> Lot 12. >> 12. >> Those are existing conditions that are on. Lot 11 is a lot. >> Oh, I apologize. I have them backwards. Lot 11 is a larger lot, but it has a

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depth variance and lot 12 is a smaller lot and it has a lot area variance. >> Got it. >> Okay. >> Then we also have steep slopes exception which is a design waiver. uh and uh we already discussed the waiverss of

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checklist submission items. So those six items >> yes those six items are what I want to discuss. I wanted to talk about the positive criteria for all of them at one time. The use variance ones will have

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the the four steps fourstep see the bulk variances are D1s. So there I'll talk about the uh unique conditions of the lots and then steep slopes is an

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exception. I just need to describe that and I think that's the uh requirements for the positive criteria. So starting with and I left out the shed. The shed is also a D1. I will talk about the road

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and shed together. So the access road and the shed are not permitted principal uses. So they're D1. It's a a public utility is the reason why we have these roads. So these D1

434
02:04:09.280 --> 02:04:24.719
variances, these items take on the characteristics of the main part of the project, which is an inherently beneficial use because we are taking water, providing it to the population, and we're making that water as clean as

435
02:04:24.719 --> 02:04:42.400
possible. And we're adding this new treatment system in accordance with new regulations, which I learned something to new tonight. It doesn't just take out peace boss. is probably going to make it smell better and taste better as well because it's the carbon activated uh

436
02:04:42.400 --> 02:04:58.880
right which I never knew until these people were talking about it learn something new every night right um so CA step one is the public interest at state so in both cases uh the compliance

437
02:04:58.880 --> 02:05:15.679
with the mandatory uh NADP federal PAS drinking water standard uh at a facility serving 12 communities is definitely a public interest at stake because if the

438
02:05:15.679 --> 02:05:34.159
water is not clean those people will get sick. So that's public interest. Sec the second step is the potential detrimental effects. uh there is a slight increase in traffic uh on the uh it's actually

439
02:05:34.159 --> 02:05:49.280
coming across the roadway and then when it gets to very close to Highland Park where it con it connects with Cedar Lane there's an um an incremental effect on the residential character of the zoning

440
02:05:49.280 --> 02:06:07.040
where those apartments are that we have to take into consideration. There's the environmentally sensitive character of the lots where we have the uh the stream quarter, the mill creek running through its associated wetlands, flood planes

441
02:06:07.040 --> 02:06:24.719
and uh overlaying stream quarter and and uh but I don't really see any dental detrimental effects for the shed. It's a building that complies with all of the setbacks on the site. Uh the third secret step is to reduce these

442
02:06:24.719 --> 02:06:40.000
detrimental effects through conditions. The roadway alignment itself, you heard a lot of testimony about how it's following the exact alignment of the existing access road and that they're matching the width as much as possible

443
02:06:40.000 --> 02:06:58.639
with the existing access road rather and they're not trying to design a new road that parallels that and has a new stream crossing. So that is all going to um to to uh balance the detrimental effects

444
02:06:58.639 --> 02:07:13.920
and and Laura uh uh there were a series of conditions we agreed to along the way that also mitigates to a degree some of the detrimental effects. Yes, the routing that is going to be part of the

445
02:07:13.920 --> 02:07:32.000
the record as well as uh the number of trucks that are coming through and the other conditions that were discussed previously by uh by everybody is also uh the staggering of the trucks. Uh

446
02:07:32.000 --> 02:07:46.960
guide rail keep the trucks from going off the road. uh the replacement of the trees to to replace the buffer that's there along the sides of the roads. Uh the storm water and erosion control measures that are taking place to

447
02:07:46.960 --> 02:08:04.239
protect the steep slopes and the storm water to gather the storm water uh and treat it for water quality re um uh and um uh control the rate at which it enters the stream. All of this is done

448
02:08:04.239 --> 02:08:19.520
to offset the see step two potential detrimental effects. The shed itself needs all setbacks. It's also a lot of the trees that are being planted uh as a result of the tree removal to to

449
02:08:19.520 --> 02:08:35.760
mitigate that are being planted so that the the shed is actually behind those are uh facing so the further lots wouldn't be able to see the shed that's on Highland Park. Uh the fourth step which is amended by the Monarch

450
02:08:35.760 --> 02:08:53.679
community's action that recently took place is to affirmatively show that the barriers will not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the zoning plan and zoning ordinance which is separate from the balancing act we just discussed. So the burough's own zoning

451
02:08:53.679 --> 02:09:10.560
ordinance recognizes public utility facilities as a conditional use in both the RMG zone and the SC zone. So it it's this direct ordinance level evidence that the zone plan does not categorically exclude this category of

452
02:09:10.560 --> 02:09:27.520
use from these zones. Um so with this for such a unique situation where the lot is part of the treatment plant and the Shenon road are accessories just across the border into

453
02:09:27.520 --> 02:09:43.520
a different town is a very unique situation. It's it's not imaginable, at least for me, to see how somebody could have foreseen that somebody might want an access road on a lot because usually an

454
02:09:43.520 --> 02:09:58.960
access road goes with a building, which would be a permitted use. So that that I don't think that that oversight, it's not really an oversight. It's just something that wasn't imagined has any it does not

455
02:09:58.960 --> 02:10:14.239
substantially impair the intent and purpose of the zone and zone plan. >> It's like when Highland Park did its master plan, there's no way they would have ever really considered something like uh the application that's in front of the board tonight, >> right? It's just not a it's not a normal

456
02:10:14.239 --> 02:10:31.199
circumstance to have a road or or a parking lot or anything like that on a lot because it's an accessory use. And this is even more interesting because the main use is in a different town. So, uh if it was in the same town, they'd be able to put the lots together,

457
02:10:31.199 --> 02:10:48.079
consolidate them, and they'd be on the same lot. In this case, it's not feasible to do that. In in any case, there is actually some recognition in the ordinance because public utilities, you know, broadly are listed as a conditional use in those two zones.

458
02:10:48.079 --> 02:11:03.920
>> Correct. >> Yes. Uh the bio retention basin uh like the road is not an aitted accessory use, but it's also an entirely new use. Uh it it uh the property where

459
02:11:03.920 --> 02:11:21.199
it's located, Highland Park property is particularly suited for the access drive because of of where or for the road because of where it's located. Uh you can't water doesn't flow down I mean uphill. So you have to have your basins

460
02:11:21.199 --> 02:11:39.040
go downhill from where you want to collect the water and where you want to put it in. Otherwise, you're running into pumps which is not natural and they break. So, with regard to the SEA balancing on this, I could go through it again, but

461
02:11:39.040 --> 02:11:54.880
it's really almost exactly the same as it was for the road. I will repeat myself if you like. Okay, thank you. Um, so then moving on to the stream corridor protection overlay zone. Uh, this is a a

462
02:11:54.880 --> 02:12:11.360
D variance. It's not as clear what type of D it is, so I'm going to treat it as a D1 because that requires the most proofs on the record. Uh, so the stream corridor overlay protection zone

463
02:12:11.360 --> 02:12:26.400
prohibits new construction of buildings, retaining walls, and any other impervious surface not in public interest. And I would have to put forth to you that this is in the public interest to to uh create this road in

464
02:12:26.400 --> 02:12:42.480
and it and the best location does go through a stream quarter overlay protection area because if they didn't have this road and you heard the testimony hasn't happened yet, but there could be a fire at one of those houses

465
02:12:42.480 --> 02:12:59.280
uh over on Fair View and nobody could get in. the operators couldn't get in and and the it's a 24-hour business to keep our water clean so we can drink it safely. Uh so I would put to you that it's it is it's not allowed but it is

466
02:12:59.280 --> 02:13:17.119
because it's in the public interest and the access road involves only a minimal widening of an already existing gravel corer only where needed. Uh it it directly serves the public water utility function. uh undergoing the uh treatment

467
02:13:17.119 --> 02:13:34.960
increase. So um just lost my train of thought. Sorry. However the the uh bio retention basin is prohibited

468
02:13:34.960 --> 02:13:50.000
and it's a new use. But so again, I'm going to treat that as a D1 variance. Um, and it and it's required for all the same reasons that I said it was required

469
02:13:50.000 --> 02:14:07.280
as a D1 variance under the ordinance. This is under the stream corridor ordinance. So, it's just all the same except that I want to add that the overlay zone does recognize that storm water is a necessity and that the head walls are permitted uh where they're

470
02:14:07.280 --> 02:14:23.520
designed to minimize impacts as has this storm water facility. uh the conservation easement. Your ordinance requires conservation easements around these and there they will be provided with the caveat that because this the

471
02:14:23.520 --> 02:14:40.480
bio retention basin needs to be inspected on a regular basis and may require some repair or some maintenance from time to time. Most conservationists don't allow that. This one I hope the board will see it to allow that

472
02:14:40.480 --> 02:14:56.159
maintenance that keeps it operating properly. Um, next we move on to the C variances. The lot area for lot 12, the lot depth for lot 11. This is a C1 hardship. These which can be either

473
02:14:56.159 --> 02:15:13.199
exceptional narrowness, shallow shallowess, shape, topography or other extraordinary sight condition. And I would say that this is an extraordinary site condition in that the two lots are not owned by the applicant. The

474
02:15:13.199 --> 02:15:30.320
applicant is getting an easement in the process of finalizing the easement through these properties. And so the applicant doesn't have the control to to put these two as one. That would be up to Ruters. So that that's a

475
02:15:30.320 --> 02:15:47.199
uh I find that to be an extraordinary site condition when you add in that is the only uh reasonable place to put the access road as well because you're following that disturbed area already. >> Okay. And those lot size deficiencies

476
02:15:47.199 --> 02:16:02.880
those are not being changed or not. So those are really existing conditions that are >> unchanged and they're not the lot size is not being made smaller because this is a private road. It's not a public road that would be put in a rightway

477
02:16:02.880 --> 02:16:17.920
which would reduce the lot area. So these lot areas are not being diminished or or the uh depth is not being diminished by the construction of this road as well. and and this is a property is uniquely

478
02:16:17.920 --> 02:16:35.040
suited and appropriate for the location of the road because of the existing railroad spur. Finally, oh not quite finally almost finally steep slopes exception which is a sign

479
02:16:35.040 --> 02:16:50.639
waiver. Uh and you heard a lot of testimony about why the uh the steep slopes are being disturbed, where they are, what type of disturbance it is, and how it was mitigated. uh by providing minimal widening, by

480
02:16:50.639 --> 02:17:06.719
providing soil erosion and sediment control standards to stabilize the banks um and a lot of in the steepest area of of the slopes. You heard that it's really not regrading, but it is planting

481
02:17:06.719 --> 02:17:23.439
of trees and removal of trees to allow for the construction of uh or the the modification of the existing road to be a road that trucks can travel. And finally, it's um the steep slopes are man-made in a lot of these areas because

482
02:17:23.439 --> 02:17:39.679
it's the embankment that was built for the railroad. So, it's not natural steep slopes like on the side of a hill or mountain or something like that that's trying to be preserved here. And finally, I'd like to add that the environmental commission has recommended

483
02:17:39.679 --> 02:17:56.880
granting these exceptions. Uh with regard to having no frontage for these two lots, there's two uh uh two items that I have to explain to you uh that would allow you to approve this.

484
02:17:56.880 --> 02:18:12.960
And that is uh the practical difficulty or or uh hardship in enforcing the street frontage. Well, the the lots in front of this property have uh apartments on them, so there's not a a

485
02:18:12.960 --> 02:18:27.599
viable way to get frontage for these lots. However, uh the water company's done a great job in finding another access through to an existing driveway onto

486
02:18:27.599 --> 02:18:44.559
Cedar Lane. So I think that that uh that's a very unique situation and um it's because of the location of the lots and the location municipal border uh and

487
02:18:44.559 --> 02:19:00.719
that we have easements over lots more light. Isn't the purpose of that section of the MLU well to make sure uh fire trucks and emergency vehicles can get into a property? And by building the road, we're actually providing better

488
02:19:00.719 --> 02:19:16.080
means of emergency ingress and egress to the main plant in Edison. >> Yes, that's point two. >> Okay, >> that's point two. Point two is that the roadway now does provide adequate firefighting and and other emergency

489
02:19:16.080 --> 02:19:31.599
vehicles. Uh and and it also does not interfere with any future street layout. I was not able when I reviewed the master plan circulation plan element to find that there was a future road that would go through this area. So it's not

490
02:19:31.599 --> 02:19:48.720
interfering with any of that. So I feel that we've met the two criteria that would allow the board to grant a I don't know whether it says permit. That's the way it's written in the ordinance, but grant approval to allow that. >> We generally refer to as a planning

491
02:19:48.720 --> 02:20:04.000
variance. I think that's a euphemistic term, but that's what I'll call it in the resolution. >> So, um, so those that's all the positive criteria for all of those above. Uh, the negative criteria is the reconciliation

492
02:20:04.000 --> 02:20:19.040
zone in the ordinance. So, uh, we have to look at two different items from Adichi. One is no substantial detriment to the public good and two is no substantial impairment of the intent and purpose of the master plan and the

493
02:20:19.040 --> 02:20:34.800
zoning ordinance. So I'm going to group the the roadway, the basin and the shed together. No substantial detriment to the public good. So there's no new use characterization introduced into these neighborhoods. It's if this was being

494
02:20:34.800 --> 02:20:50.960
developed in accordance with the ordinances, there would be a road there of some sort, an access road. So, it's not new. Um, the improvement is a roadway and storm water facility and and a shed. It's not an intensification of a

495
02:20:50.960 --> 02:21:08.240
use. Uh the only structure that's affected is that singlestory uh shed that's going to be moved from Edison over to Highland Park and and put in a corner of the property where it's got the northeast quarter on one side

496
02:21:08.240 --> 02:21:25.040
and some trees being planted on the other side with actually probably more direct access to the road system internal as uh using their plows and so on. Um, if there were a building on the site,

497
02:21:25.040 --> 02:21:40.800
there would be no use variance for this. The you heard about the visual, the noise, and the traffic impacts that they're limited, that there's controls being put in place to control these such as all the staggering and the the other uh controls that you discussed

498
02:21:40.800 --> 02:21:57.680
previously as well as the um so that controls the noise and then the visual. you heard testimony with regard to the lights and how they're going to be dark sky on sky on the top and shields on the side to protect so that the the light

499
02:21:57.680 --> 02:22:13.359
doesn't go too far off the roadway and that they're not going to be lit all the time. Uh you also heard testimony with regard to the existing vegetation that where it's coming down is being replaced. Um, and again restating control truck

500
02:22:13.359 --> 02:22:31.640
operations with the use of the arms and the gates and the electronic devices and the internal lighting, traffic lighting that they're using with their 24-hour personnel to control who can come and go in vehicles along this roadway.

501
02:22:32.319 --> 02:22:48.319
So, no substantial impairment to the intent and purpose of the mass code. Just one more point is that the access is called from Cedar Lane and as you heard from the testimony with the number of cars that go through that

502
02:22:48.319 --> 02:23:05.520
intersection, that driveway, this is a very minimal uh increase in the number of vehicles that will be using this road. So, it's very very small. One in a thousand, I guess, during the peak hour, I believe, was what the testimony was.

503
02:23:05.520 --> 02:23:22.240
So with regard to no substantial impairment of the intent purpose of the master plan and zone ordinance again the zones the ordinance is uh recognizes public utilities as a conditional use of both of these zones. Um so as a

504
02:23:22.240 --> 02:23:38.240
principal basis I can conclude that the roadway use variance will not substantially impair the intent of the southern zone land because the roadway and the the basin and the shed are all related to the utility uh the water

505
02:23:38.240 --> 02:23:53.840
utility use. Uh so it's and again if it was being developed under this the ordinance itself or the the zone it's in you might have a shed and you would very likely and you would definitely have stormwater management facilities as well

506
02:23:53.840 --> 02:24:14.080
as uh some kind of road access. Um finally the stream corridor overlay devariance there's no substantial detriment to the public good. Again, we need to talk about as well some substantial impairment to the intent and purpose of the zone.

507
02:24:14.080 --> 02:24:30.319
>> Do all of the things that you just said the D variances apply to the C variances >> in terms of the negative criteria? >> C the negative criteria for the C variances is more of a a balancing, but yes, they do.

508
02:24:30.319 --> 02:24:45.280
>> Okay. And then uh there there really is no positive and negative criteria as it relates to the uh what I call variance 36. >> Correct. uh and you've already explained the issue in terms of uh the section 30

509
02:24:45.280 --> 02:25:01.439
I'm sorry the section 51 exception in terms of uh what's been going on in relation to uh the unique status of this particular application which has been testified to by the previous is that

510
02:25:01.439 --> 02:25:16.880
also correct >> that is correct >> is there anything further that you could add in relation to your uh testimony regarding uh the planning var the variances at large for the application in relation to

511
02:25:16.880 --> 02:25:33.040
living fun. >> I think everything else that I have in my notes is uh essentially repeating everything I've already said in terms of the master plan and the land use objectives as well as the plan's

512
02:25:33.040 --> 02:25:49.439
conservation open space. I've already said those things not specifically. So, I can sum up if you would like me to do that. >> I think they're okay without a sum up. >> Okay. >> Um, unless the board unless board members have anything. >> I was just going to say I think you can grant these

513
02:25:49.439 --> 02:26:05.359
>> unless the board members have any questions with this. Yes, >> I think you missed these also criteria. Um, the northeast corridor, the tracks there besides all the commuters, you know, carry some really hazardous stuff and the road would provide more access to emergency personnel. God forbid we

514
02:26:05.359 --> 02:26:21.760
needed to be there. >> That is a very good point. Thank you very much. You're welcome. >> And that's why we have a very sophisticated board. >> Yes. >> Thank you very much for your testimony. And I again, just for the record, there's nobody in the public that has

515
02:26:21.760 --> 02:26:37.840
>> chairwoman that I don't have a summation. We we appreciate you spending the night uh with us. Um we do need the five affirmative votes. You appreciate it. And I think the board appreciates the uh the uh expense, the planning, uh

516
02:26:37.840 --> 02:26:52.960
the the hundreds of millions of dollars into the project. So, I'm just going to ask if the if the board has any concerns that are not yet addressed because I think we're prepared to go to a vote. If the board has any concerns, please let us know, you know, during the

517
02:26:52.960 --> 02:27:09.040
deliberation phase so that we can either address them tonight or have a chance. I really don't want to be in a situation if we can help it where you know somebody you you vote and then somebody says this wasn't fully addressed because we really want to get all the

518
02:27:09.040 --> 02:27:24.720
information we can to you. You appreciate this is a a large application and we need the five votes and there's federal deadlines to meet. So we're asking the board members if to have more concerns please let us know. We'll do our best to address them either tonight

519
02:27:24.720 --> 02:27:40.240
or if we had to come back. So we thank you for your time. >> Um the members of the board have any additional questions or or concerns you want to raise? >> I have just two concerns. Um one is that that the road is only used in case of

520
02:27:40.240 --> 02:27:55.280
emergencies for additional use, not merely out of convenience and that any of the trees that they replant in a year's time if they don't make it that they're place. >> Well, yeah, that that is a condition and it's not even in the year's time. My

521
02:27:55.280 --> 02:28:12.720
position is that when you have a landscaping uh condition, there's a lot of people that end up saying, "Well, uh, you know, you have to have a landscaper guarantee," which I originally thought was a two-year guarantee. I think it's really a one-year guarantee. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter to me. My position

522
02:28:12.720 --> 02:28:28.080
from a legal viewpoint, I think it's justifiable, is that when you have a condition that says you have landscaping, i.e., In this particular case, the plenty of trees, if they die within the first five weeks or five years, they need to be replaced because that's part of the condition of the

523
02:28:28.080 --> 02:28:43.520
approval. So, I think that's taken into. >> Thank you. >> And then you said something about the emergency >> emergency road. I'm concerned that it will be used more out of convenience. >> Okay. >> It's not an emergency road if you're talking about Cedar Lane, >> the new access road. >> Okay. the new access

524
02:28:43.520 --> 02:28:58.479
>> supposedly only going to be used for >> and when you say that that's in terms of that's in terms of car traffic as a traffic >> other truck traffic deliveries whatever they may need there >> and one of the conditions that I've

525
02:28:58.479 --> 02:29:15.040
already I intend to include is on page six of my notes which has to do with the fact that there'll be no cars that'll be utilizing the new road which is whatever it's going to be designated I'll designate it as Cedar Lane uh on Unless there is a a substantial emergency.

526
02:29:15.040 --> 02:29:31.920
>> You know, I appreciate if there's a fire on Avenue, but you know, if traffic is bad on Highfield Avenue, >> that's a different that's not an emergency in an effort. It's not an emergency. >> Thank you. Anybody else? >> Well, what may help with Rob's concerns are um how many um how many employees

527
02:29:31.920 --> 02:29:49.040
are out of sight on a given day? >> If you know, I guess you come on back up. >> You still under oath. Well, speak traffic. >> I think you appreciate this is not an employee >> entrance.

528
02:29:49.040 --> 02:30:06.399
That's not true. >> Dave, you're still under >> I'm not Dave. That's okay. >> Brian. >> Yes. >> Hey, Bob. >> You look alike. >> The um currently the day shift has about 35 employees. Night shift is less than

529
02:30:06.399 --> 02:30:26.000
half of that. So you're talking about 35 cars in the day and probably 10 to 15 in the evenings, nights. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Brian. Anybody else? >> Good. >> It's the same point I alluded to

530
02:30:26.000 --> 02:30:41.680
earlier, but I feel like the argument here relies on uh imagined future emergency. Um and that's the rationale behind why you need this road. But this is not building for an emergency. This is not a uh or as you said, you're not

531
02:30:41.680 --> 02:30:59.920
there's no intent for use. But there is we're you're building a road uh for daily use of normal business. And I feel like I haven't heard I guess like a justification for why like the other entrance isn't usable for that and for

532
02:30:59.920 --> 02:31:15.840
like the necessity of this. And I think it's I think it's both. If I respect maybe Mr. Ray can can testify a little bit further in terms of his opinion concerning the need uh for dual access

533
02:31:15.840 --> 02:31:31.520
in the event that there's a uh interference with an individual access that is currently the situation. I'll do my best. Uh, I know it's not in Highland Park, but Edison is a neighboring community. And

534
02:31:31.520 --> 02:31:47.280
right now, if we were to continue to use Fairview, we would have those additional trucks taking the media in and the media out going down a residential street with 40 about 40 single family homes. So, the rationale for the new truck access

535
02:31:47.280 --> 02:32:04.160
essentially is that that's a big part of it. The second part of the equation is wanting to be friendly to Highland Park. We're here. We need an approval from both municipalities. Uh the client has offered to have all the new truck

536
02:32:04.160 --> 02:32:20.080
traffic uh come in from Planefield and Kilmer. We can make that part of the, you know, condition of approval. We don't want to impact the apartments on Cedar Lane and Highland Park. And we've agreed to have all that traffic come in

537
02:32:20.080 --> 02:32:36.720
through Edison on main roads, not down Fairview, but on more main roads such as, you know, Kilmer and Cedar roads that can handle that traffic. There are a lot of warehouses on these roads, the post office, motor vehicle commission. These roads are capable of handling the

538
02:32:36.720 --> 02:32:51.600
small incremental increase in truck traffic. But uh one of the primary concerns was to you know have a little bit of respect for the 40 single family homes that are on fair and that's basically it. Just out of curiosity what

539
02:32:51.600 --> 02:33:08.080
is your opinion with regard to a single entrance um single entrance access uh in terms of is that uh a a safe situation or is it safer to end up having what amounts to a loop

540
02:33:08.080 --> 02:33:24.479
arrangement. So you end up having two access in the event of the closure of one of those of the original access. >> It it's always advisable to try to have two points of access to a property. And as I said, although it it's not a residential project, the residential

541
02:33:24.479 --> 02:33:41.600
site improvement standards in the state are very strict with respect to when you need a second point of access for emergency vehicles. They take them very seriously. And again, although this is not a residential project, the same, you know, thing applies in my opinion is

542
02:33:41.600 --> 02:33:56.960
that there are people working here and um, you know, god forbid there was a fire on Fairview and somebody had a health issue at the plant, you want to be able to get in there. So respect, you know, we're it's a different community,

543
02:33:56.960 --> 02:34:12.319
but there's there's there's a the new trucks are coming in there because it's going to be built where we could we can get them off of Fair View. We we we can minimize the burden, right, of the folks on Fair View by the second. So, and and based on the fact that we've agreed to

544
02:34:12.319 --> 02:34:29.760
have the existing truck traffic that's there now continue to use Fair View, there shouldn't be any, you know, measurable impact at all on Cedar or or through Highland Park. There shouldn't be any measurable impact. So, we can benefit Fair View and uh, you

545
02:34:29.760 --> 02:34:47.479
know, move it to the other access. We don't see much of a burden in Highland Park. Not saying zero, but very minimal on the residents of Highland Park, but being respectful of the people who live on fair. That's our argument.

546
02:34:51.359 --> 02:35:15.200
Okay. >> Any other questions, concerns, comments? >> Okay. As as has previously been said any number of times, this is an enhanced beneficial use and therefore there

547
02:35:15.200 --> 02:35:31.200
positive criteria in my estimation has been satisfied through that process. Uh the see test is with regard to how you deal with the negative criteria and that's the balancing test which has already testified to in measures.

548
02:35:31.200 --> 02:35:47.920
There's also um uh the other variances and by the way there's the devariances as it relates to the road the bio detention bio retention basin stream corer and the shed. There's also the section 36 which is the one that there's

549
02:35:47.920 --> 02:36:06.080
no access no frontage that's based upon whether or not there's an unusual circumstance extraordinary circumstance and whether or not there's access adequate access for emergency vehicles such as fire and ambulance. There's also the C variances with regard to uh size

550
02:36:06.080 --> 02:36:21.520
and depth. We've heard testimony is really some somewhat implicit between the positive and negative criteria for the C variances. There is some case though that suggests that when you end up having uh D

551
02:36:21.520 --> 02:36:38.160
variances when you are dealing with a use that is not committed in the zone. the C variances generally don't apply and they quite get subsumed into the D into the D variance because by definition what happens is that if you

552
02:36:38.160 --> 02:36:55.760
have a use that's not otherwise permitted the bulk standards don't generally apply it's not applied to that use and therefore it can satisfy uh the standards for the uh use varian use variance there is uh the the C variances

553
02:36:55.760 --> 02:37:14.840
assumed that many applicants as this applicant has done says that's true but on the other hand I'm willing to end up saying why receive so that's what they've done the so exception is one of

554
02:37:15.520 --> 02:37:32.800
I guess it's extraord extraordinary circumstances in the sense that is there a sign significant or significant mediation from the standard. What they testified to is that by utilizing the existing

555
02:37:32.800 --> 02:37:47.920
I guess it's a road bed, I'll call it a road bed. uh that the existing roadbed is the least intrusive for purposes of of disturbance of the steep slopes because any other uh area would require

556
02:37:47.920 --> 02:38:03.359
more disturbance which by definition if you have fallow land you're going to end up requiring more disturbance just by requiring the the new road. This is already a roadway that already has a pan and therefore it becomes less

557
02:38:03.359 --> 02:38:19.920
disturbance in regard to that road. They put in guard rails. They put in drainage facilities. If you find that those are reasonable litigating measures in regard to criteria that if you find that to be the case, that's

558
02:38:19.920 --> 02:38:36.720
sufficient justification for the grant of a section 51 section. That having been said, uh you've already heard that you end up dealing with the sea variance or the sec criteria, you end up having to deal with

559
02:38:36.720 --> 02:38:55.120
uh conditions. And I think that there's been a number of conditions that I have found. There may be others that I have missed and if there are, feel free to add to to the list. Uh I've indicated that excuse me that when you end up having uh uh the number of trucks that

560
02:38:55.120 --> 02:39:11.600
either five a day or five days once every six weeks uh which is what I think is really the standard that you're talking about. There should be a condition that indicates that they ought to be five a day uh five days a week and that they ought to be staggered in a

561
02:39:11.600 --> 02:39:26.880
reasonable manner whether that's one every two hours or one every hour and a half. Uh I I'll defer that and I'll have some some discussion with my colleagues in terms of what's the reasonable amount so that we can put that condition in so that there's not going to be the concern

562
02:39:26.880 --> 02:39:43.280
that's been raised by some members with background traffic and the in uh unforeseeable situation that has raised over here about who knows what's going to happen with traffic that's outside the immediate area. So I think that's an important condition. There's also been

563
02:39:43.280 --> 02:40:00.080
the suggestion, excuse me, my glasses up. I can't read my writing at the time. uh that the applicant uh would be required uh in regard to the issue of storm water and storm water management control uh that they are

564
02:40:00.080 --> 02:40:16.240
saying and there is a stipulation I think they have to question my mind they have to go before the appropriate board in Edison but there's a stipulation that they go before the appropriate board in Edison to get the approval uh for the overall project and and in particular as

565
02:40:16.240 --> 02:40:32.080
it relates to Highland Park uh that in they end up having a review by the appropriate consultants for for Edison regarding the storm water management. Once that has occurred, that will then be a subject of a compliance plan that

566
02:40:32.080 --> 02:40:47.760
will be submitted by the applicant to uh your board consultants for their review and concurrence andor modification as they see as they dee necessary. Uh there would also be the requirement that they ultimately provide uh to your

567
02:40:47.760 --> 02:41:05.840
consultants a an appropriate easement and I apologize I know you said that the warehouse name segment that there is authorization to utilize the property for segment and that there be an

568
02:41:05.840 --> 02:41:22.640
easement that would be reviewed by your consultants to assure that that's an adequate ement. Uh there would also be a requirement as was stated over on the other side that there would be uh no cars utilizing the new and again I'm referring to it as the Cedar Lane act

569
02:41:22.640 --> 02:41:39.040
the new Cedar Lane access. There'd be no cars that would be authorized to access that with the exception of uh significant emergency needs. uh that there would also be excuse me uh that and I say this but I say that for that

570
02:41:39.040 --> 02:41:55.760
period of time you had the 20 and 25 cars that they be required to have them on five truck cars I mean trucks per uh day and that they be staggered in a manner that will require that stipulation and that there further be a

571
02:41:55.760 --> 02:42:12.640
stipulation in the contract to assure that there that that will actually occur uh further that there would the uh that all construction traffic uh for the construction that is 98% I guess whatever that limited uh movement of the

572
02:42:12.640 --> 02:42:28.080
uh shed uh will all come through the fair view road uh access and not through the new access with regard to lighting the lighting will be excuse me uh available for trucks between the hours

573
02:42:28.080 --> 02:42:43.200
of 8:00 am to 5:00 pm and it will be night compliant that it will be concealed source lighting and that the lights will only be on as necessary during dark evening hours. There are

574
02:42:43.200 --> 02:43:19.920
conditions that would include that all existing traffic goes through the continent. which I've already talked about. If there's any other conditions that the board members found out about or or think about that I have not included, I'm happy to include them together with

575
02:43:19.920 --> 02:43:35.439
the comments that have been made as conditions of approval from your consultants report as it relates not to the issues uh the completeness that's already done with but any other conditions that the

576
02:43:35.439 --> 02:43:52.960
tom the extent that the applicant doesn't own the property in question, do these restrictions have to somehow connect back to the property owners? Yes, they've already indicated on the record and I think I've seen it already uh that

577
02:43:52.960 --> 02:44:11.040
the uh the area uh that they're dealing with in terms of whichever the one line is on my record but they've already consented to this application. So therefore that consent is already on the in the record and therefore uh there's nothing further

578
02:44:11.040 --> 02:44:27.520
that needs to be done. Uh I uh there will be a requirement to end up getting the consent. I don't think there's been a consent uh with regard to saving uh and >> Oh, we have it. Yeah. >> Okay. But so that's already been uh a situation where they they've consented

579
02:44:27.520 --> 02:44:42.880
to it, but we still need to have the easement to assure that they will that there will be access across their property. So both of those have already indicated that that easement is necessary for them but to be reviewed by your consultants as part of a condition of approval.

580
02:44:42.880 --> 02:45:00.080
>> Okay. So everything ties together. Everything ties together. Very good. at least in my opinion. Anybody else have any other conditions or concerns that I have not raised the other thing that is important that you have seven members of the board as a

581
02:45:00.080 --> 02:45:16.720
devariance. I'm sure you all know this as has already been stated in order to be successful to there is a requirement for a super majority or five affirmative votes. So there are currently seven of you. Five of you have to come forward with affirmative votes in order for this

582
02:45:16.720 --> 02:45:32.960
application to be approved. The outcomes already asked if there's any other questions or concerns that they can address. If there's continues to be any such concerns, one of two things can happen. they can continue to raise questions or if they feel uh that those

583
02:45:32.960 --> 02:45:48.960
questions need to be resolved by some additional investigations, they have the right to request the matter to be held uh for a further investigation and at a subsequent meeting. So I'm again asking if there's any concerns or questions uh

584
02:45:48.960 --> 02:46:13.520
that uh appear to be unresolved in the minds of the board members. With those uh suggestions as conditions, Madam Chair, I would uh ask you to solicit a motion and I always do this. I've done this for this board. I've done

585
02:46:13.520 --> 02:46:27.359
it with every board I represent with the Darian. And I would ask that you end up soliciting a motion to approve the Dvarian first because that's unique. the de excuse me the dev variances

586
02:46:27.359 --> 02:46:43.840
uh unless you want me to break them down and the reason I do that is not because I am in favor I have no vote as you all know I I do that because I've had a situation in the past when um the uh

587
02:46:43.840 --> 02:47:01.680
resolution uh was for a negative and then people were saying well if I vote yes am I voting in favor am I voting against it blah blah blah it's just so much easier to vote. Have a vote so that it says it is in favor of the devariances. That way you all know if

588
02:47:01.680 --> 02:47:17.840
you vote yes, you're voting in favor of the devariances. If you vote no, you are voting against the devariances. Now I will raise the question again. If anybody has concerns on any of the individual devariances, uh maybe it

589
02:47:17.840 --> 02:47:33.200
would be good idea then to separate them out. uh the D variances that have already been outlined. They include the road, the detention basin, the street corridor facility, excuse me, and the shed. So if there's

590
02:47:33.200 --> 02:47:49.279
anybody that has any concerns on any of that individual, but it's up to the concerns. >> I'd like to make a motion to approve the devarian >> with all the conditions that Mr. Thomas

591
02:47:49.279 --> 02:48:17.040
outlined. Okay. Do I have a second? >> Okay. Yes. Go ahead, >> Mr. Feder. >> Yes, >> Mr. Fez. >> Yes, >> Mr. >> Yes, >> M. Corbin. >> I didn't hear you.

592
02:48:17.040 --> 02:48:33.920
>> You can if you want. Well, there are no rules. Uh you can you can go uh it's not unusual for the chair to go last, but there's no requirement that you go last. If you want to defer your uh vote to >> I vote yes.

593
02:48:33.920 --> 02:48:55.840
>> Miss Walsh. >> No. >> Are we done? >> I have a Yes. >> Okay. I was going to say I thought we were missing somebody. Uh it's a six to1 vote. The motion has been that motion has been passed. We're not done yet.

594
02:48:55.840 --> 02:49:14.560
Okay. Uh the second motion is I would suggest that because this motion is for preliminary and final major uh site I think you can include I know you can include if you choose to the variances

595
02:49:14.560 --> 02:49:32.000
the C variances that we've talked about and again just for the record they include the the lot size variance and the lot depth variances for the two lots. We can also include the slope exception we've already talked about extensively

596
02:49:32.000 --> 02:49:47.840
as well as the section 36 uh I'll call it a planning variance for purposes of the um fact that there's no row atage which is based upon the circumstances

597
02:49:47.840 --> 02:50:11.840
uh that there are adequate This is an unusual situation not requiring a access warranty on a public. So that's that could be a unified vote because all of them just require a

598
02:50:11.840 --> 02:50:28.000
majority of those present to this particular case. If four votes are in favor of it, all of those matters get just so that you understand. So, how do you want to do it? Do you want to end up doing it as one more vote or you want to break them down in some

599
02:50:28.000 --> 02:50:46.560
way or fashion? Hearing none of what I recommend, unless I hear some objections from Mr. Slottnik to have one vote to approve and final major site plan, the two C variances, the slope exception and the section 36

600
02:50:46.560 --> 02:51:04.560
planning. I would ask again for the same reason that you solicit madam chair a a motion in favor of that for the same reasons that way you know what you're voting for favor you're voting in favor of all of those if you vote against them

601
02:51:04.560 --> 02:51:24.960
>> do I have a motion in favor >> I'll move a Second. >> No second. >> Mr. Fector. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fez. >> Yes. >> Mr. Holle. >> Yes.

602
02:51:24.960 --> 02:51:39.760
>> Miss Walsh. >> Miss Leslie. >> Yes. >> Mr. Bonnie. >> Yes. >> Miss Clever. >> Yes. >> Thank you for your time. We appreciate your time. uh resolution next month

603
02:51:39.760 --> 02:52:21.840
>> is if you meet in August. >> We appreciate that. Thank you. I found something. >> Do you keep the boards? >> Uh, I don't. No, we don't need those because they're all fine.