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Good evening. This is the Tuesday, July 28th, 2026 regular meeting of the phones and burough planning board. This inerson and virtual meeting is called pursuance to the updated provisions of the open public meetings act with adequate and electronic notice of this meeting and virtual meeting. Sorry, this inerson and

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virtual meeting has been provided by way of publication in the hunter and county democrat and current newspapers beginning in January 2026. In addition, notice of the meeting was posted on the door of the burough lung municipal building located at 38 Park Avenue and in the hand accessible entrances there too. Posted it on the

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municipal website as per the new LTMA requirements provided to the municipal clerk and distributed to all persons of any requesting copies of same. This meeting is being recorded with both audio and video and may be rebroadcast. This meeting is a judicial proceeding. Any questions or comments must be alluded to the issues and the relevance

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of the board they will consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times. Ask everyone please rise as you're able. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Oh w >> mayor Carol >> Mr. Campion >> here

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>> council vice president Angelhart >> here >> Mr. Dhner >> here >> Gifin >> here >> Mr. Schlanger >> here >> Mr. Shob Mr. show. >> We see you, Dennis. We see you trying.

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>> If you can hear us, Dennis, wave a hand. >> Nope. >> Sorry. >> Miss Swinkle >> here. >> Miss Whitesman here. Mr. Payne >> here. >> Mr. Eckle

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>> here. >> Mr. Pers >> here. >> Engineer Ian Hill is here from Van Clee. Kyle uh planner Kyle >> here >> and engineer Troutman

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>> here. >> Thank you. >> Oh, and attorney Wilhelm >> here. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, item one on the agenda, as we always do, is a period for public comments for items not before the board. If any member of the public online or in

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person wishes to make a public comment, uh, please raise your hand. Seeing none, item two, mayor's comments. >> Um, just one, um, quite a while ago we talked about, um, doing an ordinance 30

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asking the council to do an ordinance regarding um not allowing not permitting uh data centers anywhere in the burrow at all. And I can't remember if we had asked the council if the council's planner was going to do that or if our

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player was going to do that, but I don't think anything's happening with that. And I just saw another thing on the news about the data centers and the what the the um the drain that they put on resources. >> Yes, >> especially water.

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So um I guess it's a legal question for our timing. If we do an ordinance in town not allowing data centers in the rural level 10, can we actually do an ordinance saying that our water service area we will not serve water to a data

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center >> because we serve part of our township that >> that sounds like it would be discriminator response say provide a municipal service to one property owner >> should be use.

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Uh, you catch me a little bit off guard, but I know I don't understand the action. That's not that doesn't sound good. I think that would open up channel. >> Jim, there's there's a how are these regulated in

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like what do they fall under? Is it a permitted use anywhere in the burrow anyway? >> Right. No, it's not not for we don't talk about it. Yeah, >> I think we have the standard clause that any that is not permitted is prohibited. >> So, and data center is a very specific

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use like you have a broad umbrella of industrial which right a data center might fall under >> but um I mean everybody nowadays knows a data center is a very specific thing and that you know we have in other communities just put a

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a specific prohibition and it's a simple you know it can be a simple oneline ordinance just adding you know, a prohibited use. If we wanted to do that, you could also take the latency approach because some towns have already just

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flat out banned them, making them a prohibited use, and I know they're starting to be challenged and that's I'm sure that it'll go to the New Jersey Supreme Court, which will make a final decision on that. They're just starting to be challenged level. Um, so you could take a wait and see approach. $300

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million lawsuit against Washington Township in Gloucester County for a data center prohibition. $300 million was the suit. >> There is um if I'm if I'm not mistaken,

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there is some um part of our ordinance that allows data processing centers. And there's a big difference between what you're, you know, what I think what the mayor is is describing and that type of use in our

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ordinance. So perhaps um clarifying what that definition is would also be of help. And I I I know that um these big mega data centers, frankly, there's not

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many are um but but also the um uh And I but I do know I I do want to protect um the our our resources and that I I do know there are these big mega data center now they're actually being um uh

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they're not using the water the way the original ones are. They're basically recirculating them in um also it's not so much the water now from what I understand it's also the energy needed. Um whereas um you know some of these are

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going next to like an enormous nuclear power plant in the middle of Pennsylvania, right? Um so there's that issue as well. So I think if there is an ordinance that's considered that I would like to make sure that we see we address

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all utilities, not just water. >> So I don't I don't I personally don't believe that there's a um a right? >> Any any any threat or or or site even remotely viable in this town for

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anything of the sort that >> that is being um going through the courts and and you know both locally and nationally. But I but I but I'd like to make sure we're protected either way. >> Yeah. Because I can see somebody putting together a parcel. >> Has the town council referred this

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matter to you yet? >> Not no. So I mean this is this is something that >> we started talking about this months ago. It came up somebody else brought it up. >> I can't remember who. >> You guys can ask us we can ask you you know like did it can go both ways.

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>> So the thing we did in um Blairtown which we want to be sensitive to here in Flemington is we put a limit and I'll give you an example. Comcast put a small data center in the town of Clinton. They took the old TD Bank. It's a 3400 square

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foot building. Something like that is >> well and that's meant to serve the local population. >> So, you know, maybe we want to distinguish we don't want to forbid >> Verizon or Comcast from doing something similar here if we need it.

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>> But we I can take a look and at the next meeting we can talk about but it would be a very simple. >> You know, most towns are just I can't recall if we have a section that's prohibited specifically prohibited uses. No, it does say data processing center and I think it was the spirit of what you're describing is what would be

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allowed and and that's a big difference to what everybody's having over so we want to make sure we're clear as to what that very you know for we can always prepare an ordinance here refer to council for a small town and I could see somebody putting together a big enough

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parcel tearing down buildings and putting together parcel and anything that they do is going to abut residential neighborhood and they're very noisy besides being extremely draining on resources and you know this town's already you know we're hitting

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our last well we can you know we got two more to go and that's it we're done >> you know >> thanks Jim I'll take a look >> yeah just they were looking to put one across the street from where I worked and the town rejected I guess the water use was like 2,000 gallons a minute and

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uh and the power Several hund several hundred megawatts of power huge. Um item three council Susan >> I don't have anything to say >> for uh HPC Dennis.

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>> Hi just had two items. Uh the HPC approved the front steps and railing at 155 Main Street and painting of 119 Main Street. Caitlyn sent those out to the planning board. So, you have copies of

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that. That's it for me. >> Thanks. Thanks. Uh environmental commission Melissa. >> Um we did meet last week. We did review uh Jada Global as well as the rescue squad and I believe Trent sent the

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reports out and the board has been copied. >> Thank you. Uh item six, professional reports. Uh Carol was trying to get a red line of the escrow ordinance to us before the meeting. It did not happen. So uh I will follow up with her when she

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is back in town. Hope we get that on for discussion at our next meeting. Uh Kyle, the next three things are yours. Um master plan committee, >> I'm 80% done. I will have it to the committee by the beginning of next week.

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Now, I've just switched over the climate change related hazard vulnerability assessment, and obviously that's going to go to Melissa and the environmental commission for their review as well. I'm just about there. >> Um, second item for you is the uh turntable

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junction redevelopment area need >> soon as the master plan is done. We're moving on to that. I also have to get I hopefully somebody can put me in touch with the property owner because I I do want to talk to him because ideally I should get into the buildings um to make

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it a more fit analysis. So I want to reach out to him if somebody can help you. >> Okay, that'd be great. >> And the um draft from uh Chaitree ordinance update. Have you had a chance to look at that?

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>> I have not. >> We keep pushing. So, I don't want us to keep pushing it off. So, >> we really, really need to solidify this, vote on it, send it back to council. I mean, this is the third or fourth time we >> Well, we haven't gotten it officially yet council. It hasn't even been

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introduced to council yet. So, this was an informal discussion before it got to council. If we want to move it along, um, if any any members of the boards have specific objections, if something's that they had concerns with, then let let Tree know. But I don't I didn't see

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anything that was a problem when I looked at it. And so the council wants to reduce it. They cannot then we can do our official We have to do our review anyway. So we don't have to follow up. >> Didn't we just We just received it. >> No, we got a draft copy.

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>> No, no, >> we just received the final version. Not not Why didn't you put it on the agenda? >> I don't think about it. >> I got I know. I got a draft of it. So maybe the >> planning board. >> Oh, that's I'm sorry. I'm mixing up my Okay, so we haven't even received it

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yet. That's why I might not, you know, >> No, because the deal was the planning board and sh were both going to look at it first before it went >> I'm sorry reviewed. We're good for it. We're waiting for a planning board >> to say, "Okay, send it to >> Okay. So council isn't holding you up."

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That's my concern. No, that's >> what I'm what I'm saying right now is send it to council because I don't want to I don't want to wait. So, we're we're going to have to come back and do more or just review anyway. >> I can guarantee you is going to have some things.

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>> That's fine. So, let's not >> So, you might as well get that. So, >> well, I trend knows, you know, >> trans. >> Well, I think he's trying to move it forward the way that, you know, I thought you guys wanted the planning board then.

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>> Well, Jere Jere's last meeting last week was, "Hey, council, it's on the agenda, council." So, put it on the council agenda and and we'll do a review, please. >> Um, okay. Um, item seven is approval of

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minutes from our last meeting on July 7th. Those were circulated. I could get a motion on the minutes. >> Second. >> Uh, any discussion, corrections, or uh amendments to the minutes? Seeing none, we can roll.

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Mayor Carol, >> Mr. Campion, >> yes. >> Council Vice President Angelhart, >> yes. >> Mr. Dashna, >> yes. >> Miss Gifin, >> yes. >> Mr. Schwiner,

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>> yes. >> Mr. Shob, >> yes. >> Miss Swingle, >> yes. >> Miss Whitesman, >> yes. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Um, item

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eight on our uh agenda this evening is a resolution. I don't know what number we're up to, but it is um adopted, but it was circulated to the board um memorializing the uh amendment to the

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historic preservation element. We had the joint meeting um beginning of June. It was a clarification on a couple of items on the map we had in the presentation and so we just need to adopt by resolution um the action that we that we took. So

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that was circulated to everybody um and I need a motion move second. >> Is there any further discussion on the resolution? Second. >> Mayor Carol. >> Yes. >> Mr. Campion

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>> abstain. >> Council vice president Anglehart. >> Yes. >> Mr. Dsha. >> Yes. >> Miss Gifin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schlanganger. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shob. >> Yes. >> Miss Swingle.

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>> Yes. >> Miss Whitesman. >> Yes. >> Thank you. That's true. So mayor pointed out Mr. Campion voted no on the HPC thing. So he shouldn't have voted even though he stayed. So let's just report him as not

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voted. That's further. >> Okay. >> Uh so Mr. Hayne uh can't approve or not approve >> then I only have eight votes. >> They only need seven. We're five. >> I thought we needed vote. Yes.

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>> Okay. Thank you. >> Um item nine is resolution memorialing memorializing action taken on Central Station LLC 37 M Street. Um I see Mr. Gberg's here. All this is was we had uh

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a request from uh the applicant for an extension. start um vice council president and myself were accused from this >> not from this from from central station. >> Yeah. >> Oh, is it this shouldn't this should this was just a resolution. I didn't

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think there was any testimony here. >> No, but I just wanted the record that we are not participating. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, we were just going to adopt a resolution to memorialize the extension on for time to act >> and I I have no objection to their resolution. We appreciate Miss Kazinski

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getting it done so fast and we approve of the form. >> All right. So, can I get a motion and a second on that >> motion? A second. >> We got to make a second discussion. >> Yeah. So, can I get a second? >> This is what happens when I vote.

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>> Can I get a second? Thank you, Mark. Um, now we've got a motion in second now. If you have discussion, can I So, you you had a question. >> My question was passed during this part. So, so I should not >> you shouldn't vote if you're going through for the whole discussion.

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>> Any other discussion on the resolution? >> Okay. Call roll please. >> Mr. Campion. >> Yes. >> Mr. Dashnner. >> Yes. >> Miss Gifin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schlanganger.

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>> Yes. >> Mr. Shob. >> Yes. >> Miss Swingle. Yes, >> Mr. Hayne. >> Yes, >> Mr. Eckle. >> Uh, abstain, >> Mr. Favors.

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>> Yeah, >> thank you. >> All right. Item 10 on the agenda. We will for the record note that we have back uh our last one of three members. Uh, privless termination for the Flemington Riden First Aid Rescue

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Flemington Riden First Aid Rescue Squad building. Too many words. Uh, 26 State Highway 12, lot 48, lot 2. Um, and you're still here. So, >> here I

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do me a favor, could you just turn the camera on the Zoom on there just so that it's >> video? >> Yeah. the video on not the audio. There you go. Okay. Um, so we um we are in a

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receipt of a letter from Van Clee from from Mr. Clargo on completeness. This was the second pass on this one and it seems to me that there's one open item on checklist item number 30 and if perhaps we can speak to that and then

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>> Sure. And this does involve the variance relief as well. So the baron council we can't participate in this as well. Um but >> it's just it just complet there's a use variance on this. What

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>> it's a D2 variant but expansion of pre-existing non-conforming use. >> I didn't even see either. We both use the same. >> Okay. Well then I'm just gonna say right now you can go home. >> Sorry about that. >> Wow. Okay.

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>> No. up and and >> just we'll see at the next meeting on August 11th. So >> um I won't be here. >> We'll see have you at the next meeting sometime. >> So correct Mr. Clerico's correspondence narrows it down to essentially two

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issues. Um the two issues for completeness purposes are um the updated survey. We just need to give the date of the updated survey and the reference to the plans. there's no change to the plans required other than putting the updated date on the new survey that we

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got. So, we can easily do that. And um the sign is the other issue was the signage. The signage is on on sheet A3. It's just really small. So, maybe it wasn't seen, but the signage is uh on the plan. So, I think we're ready to go

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for a public hearing. So is there any >> I don't see any signage on the sheet three that I have mis arguments here pointed out it's going to be above the doors less

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yeah it looks >> do you issue a new set of plans these Thursday, I think May. >> Yeah. So, this was from the the architect um >> April 3rd. >> Yeah. >> No revision. So, you don't have the

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latest. >> So, we don't you don't have um I I would recommend that you get the architect like a blow up of the sign maybe in some of the open space here. >> We can easily do that. Okay. So, we're talking about a pull by pour sign. >> Okay. So, let a temporary waiver on item

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30 before the public hearing. We'll have that course part of the test that Okay. So, uh then the recommendation from Mr. Clerico is I'm just going to read this from the and there's no other issues in

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uh in any of the report right everything >> I think everything else is good those sort of last >> so uh recommendation is to is to deem the application complete granting permanent waiverss to checklist items T9

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11A 11B 18 temporary waiverss uh for I 11D 2336 six and the um

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boundary survey I think we already talked about and we just talked about temporary waiver for 30 for the signage u detail. Am I getting that right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Just making sure. >> All right. Can I get a motion?

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>> I get a second. Uh >> any discussion on completeness? Any questions? online. We're good. >> Mr. Campion. >> Yes. >> Mr. Dashna. >> Yes.

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>> Miss Gifin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schwinger. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shoe. >> Yes. >> Miss Swingle. >> Yes. >> Miss Whitesman. >> Yes. >> Mr. Hayne.

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>> Yes. Mr. Apple. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> So, you want to try to find a date? Is that >> I would like to. That's what I definitely. >> Um, so I think notice for the 11th would be a challenge. >> It would be. >> So, August 25th is is what else do we

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have? Nothing else, right? >> No, not yet. >> The only problem with August 25th is I take one week vacation a year and >> so we can look into September. It's fine. September 8th. >> Is that September? >> September 8th. Yes. >> September 8th. Yes. Or 22.

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>> September 8th. >> Is that you know Cara's not here and Bob's not here, but it's a regular standing meeting. So we're going to assume Yes. >> Great. Summer's over. >> So day after >> day after day.

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>> All right. >> So se So let's let's say September 8th and uh we'll ask you. >> Great. Appreciate that. >> Thank you. We'll do the notice of hearing for that thing. >> Great. All right. Item 11 on the agenda this evening is a public hearing for

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Jawa Global LLC 54 state groups 12 block 45 lot two. >> Good evening Mr. Chairman. Steven Gruinberg on behalf of the application global. Um this is our application for

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either D2 or D1 variance relief and uh it's bifurcated from a site plan application. Um Mr. Clerico's most recent correspondence has the words that I'd love to hear, which are that the first order of business is for the board to deem the application complete. The

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first thing we need to do is to deem our application complete and then I can give my little introduction and speech. So uh according to the letter and I'm looking at the memo issued by Van Clee dated July 22nd 2026

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um we took action that we the action we took that there was the incomplete items were checklist item M m which which he notes has been addressed items 2516 and 29 which had to do with site plan and

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architectural plan and uh he is um also Martin that those were addressed addressed and that those were the those were the outstanding items and deem it complete. Is there uh can I get a motion to to deem it

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complete? >> Any further discussion? >> I think we need a second on that. We got a sorry, >> Mr. Campion. >> Yes. Mr. Dashna. >> Yes.

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>> Miss Gifin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schlander. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shoe. >> Yes. >> Miss Swingle. >> Yes. >> Miss Whitesman. >> Yes. Mr. Hayne. >> Yes.

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>> Mr. Eckle. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. So um this is our application uh for bifurcated devariance relief and I provided proof of service and publication of the notice of hearing in advance and provided that to Mr. Wilhelm

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and ask that he confirmed that the board has jurisdiction to proceed. Thank you. >> Thank you. So the applicant's the owner of 26 State Highway uh 12 East which is block 48 lot 2 in the burrow of Flemington. The property is actually

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located both in the burrow of Flemington and the township of Raritin. Um, you know what? I'm on the wrong page. Sorry. You didn't say anything that wasn't true. But except it was in it was on the other application. The blocking lot

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numbers are wrong. >> Sorry about that. Once Now I got the right document up. 54 State Route 12 and block 45 lot 2 in Flemington Burough and block 53 lot 22

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in the township of Rar. Um the property located in the Burough of Flemington is in the transition commercial zoning district where uh the use is not a permitted use. It has historically been used as both a light manufacturing with

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warehouse component to it. Uh in the township of Raritton, block 53, lot 22, the property is located in the township's I2 industrial manufacturing zoning district where it is a permitted use. Uh the applicant's tenant WBM

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International operates a warehousing and distribution facility on the premises and we are seeking to expand that facility and improve it greatly both from an aesthetic standpoint and from an operational standpoint so that it can

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can continue to be a viable business in both the burrow of Flemington and the township of Ritton. Um, essentially the two additions are a 45,635 square foot addition to the east side of the building and a 42,766

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square ft addition to the west side of the building. It's going to improve the site greatly by removing those silos and other uh unsightly areas on the site. and uh we're going to be

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presenting architectural testimony showing what a great vast improvement to this site it will be. Um we're there there's an issue whether we're a D2 or a D1. I think in the end we're probably a D1 uh use variance and I

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think we're we're going to concede that that the warehouse and distribution use is not a permitted use in the zone. I think historically the property has been used with a the substantial warehouse and distribution uh component to it. Um

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but I think we are a D1 variance. Um just to clarify that. >> Okay. Um, we also asked for C variance relief and I think there's a general recommendation by both the board planner and the board engineer that we deal with

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those issues perhaps on site plan issues as opposed to during the um the bifurcated use variance issue. And just to give my little spiel about why we bifurcate, um, we bifurcate in order to present the board with enough

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information about the intended use so that you can feel comfortable that we met our burden of proof that this is a there are special reasons for granting this type of continued use on this site and expanded use on this site without

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having to go through the time and expense of the detailed site plan which can be very very very very very very very very expensive. Um so we want to present a good application to the board showing you what our proposed use is

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providing you with expert testimony and support with that use and then if you agree with us that the use variance relief is appropriate doesn't mean that we're done. That means that now my client will have to come up with a detailed engineering plan that meets

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your board of professionals review and your further review of the matter. But the use issue would be resolved at that point. We also are going to need to go before the township of Rarita. So um for the appropriate site plan relief in that

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jurisdiction. So, um, this is the first step in this process to try to revitalize this site, um, and and the way it currently looks in the burough. So, with that, I have several witnesses,

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and I don't know, Mr. Wilm, if you want to square them in all at once or if you want to do them one at a time. >> One, one at a time as well, I guess. >> Sure. So, I'll just introduce them. I have Tariq Soel who is the principal of the applicant, Carlos Tovar who's our

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architect, Eric Rupner who will be our professional engineer, Connor Hughes is our traffic engineer, and uh D. Thomas Sterns who will be our professional planner, and first I'd like to call up Mr. Soale. >> Raise your right hand. You swear affirm

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that the testimony you will give in this matter will be the truth to the best of your ability. Thank you. >> Please state your name and spell your last name. >> Alex, last name S O H A I L. >> Thank you. You can take a seat next to me.

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>> Why don't you introduce yourself and explain your role with JA Global LLC? >> So, my name is Kel. I'm the operational manager for the Jed Global LLC at 54 Route 12 where I see the over everyday operations. >> Excuse me, Mr. Sorry, I can move that.

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Thank you. >> And what what does your company do at the facility? >> So, we basically uh buy products from both domestic and international uh suppliers. We bring them in, we store them, we pack, repack them and then we

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ship them out. So facilities being used as a warehouse and as a packing repacking facility distribution center. >> What type of materials are they? >> Our primary known is for Himalayan pink salt. That's main company known for and we do some decor items, some electronic

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items, some spices and that stuff. >> So when these items come in, what form do they come in? So both we get the finished products uh ready to go that we just have to recap them and ship them out and sometime we get some raw material which we have to get in a bul packaging we wrap in smaller packaging

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label them and ship them. >> So part of the packaging requires equip equipment correct >> basic machinery yes we >> and what type of machinery is that? a filling machine, a sealing machine, putting the labels on them, tape

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sealing, local machine. >> Um, why don't you describe what you've been doing on the site since 2014 and the existing building? >> Um, so as I said, we get the either finish or raw material. We bring this in and then we have to make sure the

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quality control is good on there. Uh, we have to do the inventory control on it. We store it different places. We got to maintain the inventory and then as the orders comes in we have to pack them for different customers that orders are coming in then as they get labeled then we have to stage them to go out and then

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we ship them out as they as they need it. >> Are there any limitations of the existing building to your operation? a lot. Um especially in the warehouse distribution centers, they require a high ceilings where you can put like you know latest racking system. You can use

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automation machinery to put it in there so we can have more efficient and safe operation. But currently this uh the height in the space doesn't allow us to do that. >> So your intention is to further automate the site. Correct. >> Exactly. >> What benefit does that provide?

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>> Well, that going to give make the workflow much more easier. It's going to make more safe work for us and we're going to have property in and our system you know in this kind of business you know first day and first stop all that stuff require more space >> and um how many employees do you currently have?

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>> Um so depending how busy we are you go any from 10 to 15 employees. So right now we have I think 12 employees. >> And what do you expect uh if any increase in employees as a result of this expansion that we're proposing? Well, we will not be increasing any

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employees, but we'll be using a lot more machinery in it. Like for example, we'll be using a two forklift driver, you know, we don't have what like forklift drivers, if you're using a two at the moment, we'll have to bring down to one, but we can use do a lot more with the machinery automation picking on there. Same thing with

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labeling, we can use a lot more machinery on it. So, we will not be going a lot more employees. We're still going to go 10 to 15 employees range. So you expect to have the same number of employees even though you're expanding the size of the building for warehouse and distribution uh purposes. >> Correct.

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>> Um is this expansion changing the use of the property at all since what's been going on since 2014? >> No, we will not be using there changing the use of it. >> And what are your current hours of operation?

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>> Uh we go from 7:30 to 5:30 one shift. Then we have couple people they work from anywhere from 4:30 to 8:30 depending how busy we are. >> And how many days a week is that? >> Monday to Friday but as needed we do come times on Saturdays. >> And do you experience any noise outside

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of your building as a result of your operations? >> Not at all. We don't have anything that can create a noise. Even our forklifts are electric. So nothing else they can create noise. And with the proposed expansion, do you expect an increase in any noise on the site or is everything

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still going to be essentially operated indoors? >> Yeah, exactly. Everything's going to be indoor. Everything will be our stuff. >> That's not my stuff. Um will you experience an increase in any traffic? I know we have a traffic

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engineer who's going to testify but you expect an increase in traffic at your site. >> Uh there will not be any traffic increase in there. Basically like some of our suppliers they pick up once a week. So whether it's picking for one parrot or 10 par the same truck there's no reason to have any increase in the

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truck >> and no other questions. >> So uh our practice usually is to start with questions from our professionals and the board and the members of the public. So boards um questions on the testimony given by

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Mr. >> Nothing from >> I have no questions but thank you >> Jay you have anything? No, I don't have anything. That was very helpful. >> Uh, questions from members of the board. Let's start with the Google Mode folks first. Anybody?

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No, I got to know. Karen, um, did I hear the testimony is saying that there there won't be any increase um in in traffic. I I'm just I'm a little confused if we're expanding the building and therefore their operation,

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why there wouldn't be an expansion of traffic. Could could they give testimony to that, please? >> Well, we're going to have a traffic expert to present um the actual testimony with respect to proposed traffic and the traffic study that was done. Um probably better answer that

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question. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Anybody else online? Melissa, Mike, >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um Just a clarification, you said automation. Um, was that only of the

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warehousing activities or also the packaging? >> Well, both. Uh, you know, because we put the labels on and also packing. So, both of the requires these days automations are very economical. You need a space and implement it. Um, and I guess I'll make a way to try

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engineer if I need to, but maybe at different point I ask Karen's question from an operational perspective if I heard you correctly, you're not anticipating that you'll expand operations perform same number of employees, same

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operating footprint and I guess the expansion would be mostly warehousing. Well, the extension will more for whatever the repacking that we do or production that we do all section will get bigger and it'll be more organized. You know, in the warehouse operation you separate in, it's kind of separate out

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from there. The whole thing has to be properly organized and be more efficient. So, it would be the same thing that we're doing is be more better and efficient for the work. >> So, you're not not necessarily exporting more product. You're just having a more efficient process.

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>> Exactly. Justin >> uh yeah with this. >> Okay. Uh any members of the public with questions? I see we have a couple of attendees online. We have a couple I don't think anybody else in the room. Please just raise your hand.

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Okay. Not seeing any. Thank you. So I'd like Mr. Tobar to come forward. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> He's going to show you the pretty pictures. Let me let me ask as he's getting it set up. Are these part of the original submission or are these from or is this

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new? >> Last Mr. Kobar, is this new or part of the original submission? >> These are new. We submit to you those last week. >> Okay. So, do we have a digital version of these or No, >> you have it right here. So I would I would greatly appreciate if we could

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share screens so that our the board members uh on Zoom are able to uh see. So should be able Steve if you could to share do but I think I have to open up the

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file first right >> yesually generally >> yeah I'm getting used technology stuff make sure I have the right file So yeah, big green share button at the bottom middle.

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>> Yeah, unfortunately now I'm not in that window. So I have to figure out how to get to that. That must be sign into Adobe after that. >> Jeff, I'm gonna send you a request. >> Oh, yes, please. Thank you.

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Nicely done. >> Thank you. Wouldn't mind. This is going to sound a little silly, but it X out the tools on the left side. It gives us just a little bit more real estate for on the screen. Fantastic. Thank you.

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>> Is my face still on there? >> It doesn't have It doesn't have to be, but >> you're good. You're good. >> Am I good? Is that good? >> All right. >> You want to make sure we can hear my mic. >> So, I provided Mr. Tobar's uh resume in advance. Um and I have an original here

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if you wanted to mark it separately. So I have we'll go um here I have this mark just to clarify now how many exhibits does he have already >> um he'll have another one A2 >> all right so mark his CV A3

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and Mr. Chairman I've reviewed the CV of Mr. Tovar and uh based on his education training experience and knowledge I'd recommend board accept him as an architectural engineer without furthering Of course. >> Any objection from the board? Any

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questions from the board? >> Okay. Accepted as as an expert. >> Mr. Tobar, why don't you orient the board to the >> swear? You swear affirm the testimony. This matter will be the truth to the best of

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your ability. >> Yeah. Please say your name. Spell your last name. >> Carlos Toart. >> Spell your last name. >> Tobert. T O V A R. Thank you. >> And this has been marked exhibit A1. >> Yes, I see that there.

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>> Okay. And Mr. Tovar, why don't you orient the board to the site and the exhibit that you prepared? >> Okay. Here is the So, so what we did with the board was uh we have here the city conditions. So here on the on the

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that would be the west side. We have the the driving range here. where you can see it's April 12. Here is the the east sides of the building and then we have the the south side of the building. So in the morning the sun is going to go

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this way from it going to come out the east at 9:00 and go around at 12:00 going to be in the back of the building by the side and it's going to go down on the west side by the driving range. Um what you can see I want to I want to

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show those images. Um we have the system building and then what we are proposing um as you are all familiar with the system building the system building is all metal panels they are lack of insulation some of them are necessary walls again

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they are lack of insulation um so what we're proposing to do with the building is expand the building right now we have a total of 100,000 square feet of existing buildings so we're incrementing additional 80,000. So

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it's total of 180,000. So what that will do is uh you're going to ending with a more sustainable building in the way that now the building going to be more uh going to be insulated. Um they're going to be some le practice which is

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going to be insulation energy savings. um we want to have uh uh less consulting on the on the on the on the water features uh when the building um also the nicest thing about is we have a lot of um

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impervious of the side because it's a system building so we are using again the system utility so it's a building that is already in a site so what available and then no size so we're minimizing impact on the on the per

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>> what's going to happen to silo. >> So we have here we have a silo. They are actually about 60 different height each of the silos. So they are warehousing silos. So they going to they going to go away. We're going to removing them. >> So we're going to be removing those

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silos. >> Correct. They're going to go away. And that's what I was going to do. They 12:00 almost the silo they sh. Are there any other um extraneous um features that exist now that are going to be removed which will actually

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improve the site? >> Uh yes, the water tank that's going to go away too. So so that's that's going away. Um and again this this uh this pitch building too is going to go away the roof. So everything is going to be more

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um you're going to have like a a flat building. those is part of your proposed design and doing this expansion to bring more continuity to the site from an architectural standpoint. >> Yes, it is definitely is definitely

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definitely a um um yeah definitely going to improve the side as right now when you when you drive on on road and the size actually is is been well landscaped. So when you even that the building they were proposing going to be 45 ft when you come down route 12 you

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can see all the landscape on the driving range to actually cover of the building. So I would say that the new building have a better flow through the sign. >> The I think one of the comments of the board professionals was that the uh site

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has to be made uh solar ready uh in case that was a potential to put solar on. Is that something that's capable as part of this design? >> Definitely we will I was thinking that typically when we do those building we do provisions for future but there is a

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requirement that they that will we will agree to have that the future >> and and that this potential design actually encourages that to happen as opposed to the clean. >> That's correct because the flat roof the field of the white roof

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>> I've been interrupting you. Why don't you keep going through >> No, that that's better. Uh I'm gonna go to the next. >> So you want to refer to the other photos? >> Yes, I want to refer to a which is more of of the flow.

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So so we understand >> if you want to describe that exhibit to the board. >> Correct. So we I want to describe so I want to show this image because actually show the flow where you can see the light pink color is the system building.

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I'm going to pick it up again. I think I might be able to do it. >> I'm not questioning. >> Yeah, you're laughing at me, man. >> You changed it there. I think Are you guys online seeing the other

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stop share? Do it. That's the one you gave me. I don't have that one. >> No, if you open and you go to the next slide, they are on the same slide. >> Is it on the same? >> Yeah, it's the same. >> Which one? The open. Thanks.

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>> All right. Excellent. So, what I was saying is that the light color is the system building. There's about 100,000 square ft. So, we are adding extension of 42 on the on the west side and then here on the bottom we have on the east

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side a total of 45,000 square ft. So this is how we are changing the the shape of the building. That's what we are now insulated. Um and again the the loading dog area is still on on the same location where is

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where is now when the side you know sorry I want to take I'm going to put my civil engineer hat for a moment. So so you will come from route 12 you want to go on the on the lid dog area. um we have enough space to to back up

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and then we have a the parking lot right on the if you want to look at it on the north side of the building. Um there when I have on on the side where I have a fire line connection around the perimeter of the building for the fire trucks. This is actually if you look at

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the the Google map there is there is a system path that go around right now the perimeter of the building. So that will be the city far line that we can that we can go around. So again the footprint is going to increase in this area and then

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we are having a a surface parking lot on the front of the building. Now removing the sil the the silos we you know we were cleaning up this portion of the building on the east side and then also taking the work tank off it give us opportunity to provide um more parking

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more parking space and again as Tariq was saying that right now the building height where you can see on the system building they are all about 12 feet 14 ft some areas are 20 feet which they are not really good for for storage or or

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housing. So now increasing the building height up to to 35 clearance. The building going to be 42 ft high and they will have a a better opportunity to have a more uh mo operation and storage.

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>> The existing buildings are in the paint. Correct. >> Correct. >> And is it fair to say that those are rather oddly shaped buildings? >> Yeah, they are. and and they're not really contiguous to each other to make them functional. >> That's correct.

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>> Is it um the intention of this design to actually kind of square off the buildings and make them functional? >> That's correct. >> Um the height does the height conform with the ordinance? >> It does. We are our maximum is 42 the

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roof but then the parabits are 45. >> So and the standard is 45. >> Correct. So we we comply >> we comply with >> you have uh other exhibits that you want to show? >> No, that's that's that's that's everything.

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>> Any references to the photographs that you want to make reference? >> Yes. Uh the one here this is looking for group 12. So we are maintaining the art deco building. We want to point and repair the system brick and changing the storefront system. Uh personally I feel it's it's a nice looking building. If

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you after the reverse then it's um and then here is actually when you go inside of the property looking at the loading dock area and then actually on the back is the south side and the south side again what we're proposing will having

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the flat building on the south side will have a lot potential to produce some renewable energy using the solid >> not really just be I'm open for any questions >> and no other questions. >> Okay. So from our board professionals

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we'll start with our engineer questions. >> Uh no questions of the architect. Could you just talk about so is this going to be typical construction that we see tilt up concrete panels? Is that >> Yeah, that's uh that's ideally when you

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do the warehouse will be till up panels um and and looking at cost you could be go like up to 8 ft of measuring and then above go a metal stud and insulated metal panels.

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So I think that's something that that we will look into it but I think those are the the two options but the deal find that's probably the the winner. >> Okay. And I think I saw the building will be sprinkler it has to be by building code. Correct. Definitely high file storage the whole thing

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>> 100%. >> Okay. Um this might not maybe it's a better question for Mr. the rain. But um why the decision to remove the water storage tank and the fire pump in favor of just a municipal connection? Was that

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something you guys discussed and this makes the most sense or what's the rationale there? >> I I will defer because uh I will defer to to actually the owner of the civil engineer but what I what I heard they have been working now through removal

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but I don't know what is the Fair enough. >> Um, one last question. How married are you to the color of that building? >> Listen, I'm an architect and I always feel the the I always feel that when I come to this public meeting, it's about

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all working together. >> Okay. >> So, I'm open to to any suggestion and I think this is, you know, as an architect, I should be do what is right for the community, for my client, for everybody. We we honestly we present something that we think that you would like, but if you

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don't like it, that's certainly something that we want to hear about. >> Oh, I mean, I'm not going to weigh in on that. I I was just curious. It's the the dark color definitely makes it stand out more. >> Okay. >> So, you know, if we get to the point of sight plan, uh maybe we can talk about a

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more neutral earth tone color or, you know, something along those lines, but I'm certainly going to leave it up to the board's discretion. I have a strong feeling one way or the other, but >> I honestly thought it looked cool, but you know, it's really up to the board if you you didn't like it. That's an

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aesthetic thing, and that's part of what we want to do is present good aesthetics for the community in this application. >> That's all I have. >> Questions? >> No. >> Uh Jay, do you have any questions? >> No.

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>> Okay. Um board members who are remote, do me a favor. Click on raise hand rather than just unmuting because we've got a shared screen. It's a little easier for me to see if there's a hand. Dennis, >> can you go back to A1?

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And by the way, I I I I'll go what Jim just said about the color. >> But um the building in the center in the front when you look at existing versus proposed, that's not part of this,

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right? Um because it looks different in the proposed, but that building is not part of this. Correct. The one that's for sale next door. >> Yeah, that's not bad. >> Okay. I don't It looks different in the

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proposed picture. Very different. Um Okay. I want I just wanted to confirm that that's not part of it. And then my only other comment was the color. That's all I have. >> Thanks, Dennis. Uh, anyone else remote

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with questions? >> It's too early to talk about question about colors. >> Um, folks here, uh, just one quick question. The picture to the top right on A1, the dark brown

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that's on the roof exhaust fans or the skylights or >> those are a mechanical system where a screen that's a screens around the mechanical units. >> Okay. You prefer HV HVAC. What was that

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saying? >> Yeah, HVAC. Correct. >> Okay. And if that height of the HVAC is the total building height or is that in addition >> in addition to that and the mechanical systems I don't think they're going to be over 4 feet because it's going to be

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bisection. So this is not like a office building or a hospital when you have a single HBAC for the whole building. So you're going to have zones different zones. So the mechanical buildings the the HVAC are not going to be that. So they're just making sure the HVAC and

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not exhaust fans. Lou exhaust building exhaust fans are pretty loud. >> Correct. No, HVAC. >> Okay. >> Um the existing buildings are you how are you integrating new into the I guess

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>> let me go to and the reason why I asked because the you talked about the height of the building was an issue. Yeah, correct. So, what's going to happen? The roof has to go beyond all the tunnel and all the 16 partitions that we have inside are going to be the those interior partitions.

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>> So, kind of maintain the exterior wall, but >> I going to go back to that. >> Yeah. You still listen to the same. You're >> fine. Just hold. >> Yeah.

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>> Excellent. All these walls, they're going to be the adding on the studio. This wall is going to stay, but everything here we got. Um, and then the what's the total height from the ground level? Maybe I'll tell

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you why I'm missing that question. >> 42 42 ft plus the parapet 3 ft. So it's 45. >> Okay. So the the I'm good. >> Yeah. So the clearance for the operations I would say 30 35 ft

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>> which is most of them are thousands. >> Correct. I just have a question in terms of um when we're expanding early any green space just concern whether or not that or we're just covering over previous >> we want to take some green space

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>> that's all >> and this portion that that's green space they're going to be taking >> I think Mr. group during can explain that better with the the site plan. >> That was actually my question. Um yeah, so we're taking away green space. Um your renderings show plenty of

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vegetation that actually looks beautiful around there and I can tell you the site plan does not reflect what your renderings are showing. So I'm hoping that we can get to this point from what the site is going to be presented to us. Right.

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>> Yeah. Again, we're not we've bifurcated it. So, we're talking use and site plan issues including landscaping and buffering. Certainly open to suggestions when we get to that site plan aspect of it.

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So let me just just to again I don't want to jump to other testimony but um the and I want to get issues. So um but you're seeking relief now for use and

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you're also seeking relief for C varants right for for the for which piece right now? >> Well I think what we've decided after taking a look at Mr. cleric about Mr. Kyle's reports were that they suggested that the C variance relief be deferred

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for to the site plan issues. I mean the one the one C variance is the building crosses both pro both municipalities so it's a zero >> zero setback though there's there's some issues with storm water and other

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features for sideyard setback I think is one um but I think we're going to defer that to site plan um we're not asking for that relief now if we need it in the future we can we really want to get through the use part of the So having

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the architecture testimony seems a little premature just just but uh we're not dealing with site plan issues but it is hard I understand in a bif application and I do appreciate see what it could look like as opposed to what it would look like. So thank you for for that. I I I just want to make sure I'm

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understanding correctly the forgetting the color the the massing that you're proposing to meet the use the the the the height that's proposed if you said 42 with par the spring um that's that is being driven by

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operational means of the height needed to do the warehouse operations. Am I understanding that correctly? >> That's correct. Okay. >> So so the use that you're asking to for permission to do is what's going to be is going to be the design that may follow uh uh will be

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driven in large part by by this particular use, right? Because there's because you need certain functional height for the warehousing shelving and lifts and stuff like that. That's what I I'm just making sure I'm understanding that correct. >> That's cor. Okay. Um maybe this is a

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question for your planner then down the road about what would this how would this how would a How would granting this use which would then result in a building of a certain height be compared to other adjoining properties? But maybe I'm going to hold that question for the

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planner because that's that probably gets us into other kinds of questions. >> Yeah, it's it's probably a negative criteria question I think is what you're asking which is probably more of a planner >> question. Okay. But but to put my spiel on it which is that we are at conforming height. So, um, from a height

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standpoint, the ordinance would allow us to build the structure this this high. >> Well, the the the use isn't permitted at all. The height has been determined by the use. So, let's be careful how we say it was permitted and what's not. >> Well, the maximum height for the zone permitted the zone is 45. Well, any

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anything that's built in the zone can be 45, >> right? >> That's my point. >> Okay. Maybe a followup question just about the use because with the expansion I know you talked about automated packaging equipment and I'm assuming that you're

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increasing the footprint of the automated pack the packaging equipment to make it automate but I'm trying to get a sense of back to my question before but like what what percentage or portion or where is the pack equipment how is that expanding within this

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kind saying not a warehouse versus actual >> that would be a honor on a response but if I know that the whole packaging happened here in the in the heart of the building

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in the center of the building that's was really happening and then the the warehousing is more spread out but all the packaging is happening really the heart of the I guess my question is to what extent is the packaging um area going to expand

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out with the automation >> should I call so well this is going to be so there's two three different talking about like right now basically using this space mostly because height is

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available so we receiving here shipping out from there so the what we proposing we have loading dos over here so we can start doing that receiving in one side right seating stores over here. Then we allocate a space where we can do the racking on it. But we receive a raw

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material and we also see the finished products. So allocation is very important when you put in there. Then we proposing to have section for like packing you know let's say maybe 30 40,000 place that we can have we can start packing different products in there. So we thinking back over here

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would be good place for packing area. We call it production or packing area. That's one section. But all the space other space that we getting after you pack the stuff over here then you have to get it ready for shipping. You have need a proper space for putting the labels on. After you put the label on it

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the the package have to be sorted for the carrier UPS that post or was picking it up. You have to put a sortter on. So you need a space to put a sortter on. After they get sorted then you got to have space for stadium for them to come pick it up. Some carry they come only once a week product staying over there

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or sit there. So we we store the stuff in the racks also them to come in and for daily pickup like a post or something you have separates daily for that one. So we need a proper flow for in out and also when the stuff is coming in we got to do free which is first in first out. So you have a space for that

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you can do proper allocation of that one. So might look like a lot of space but when you start doing all those things together and then you need space that you can have where you can do perform everything efficiently and with the safety at the same time. >> So that goes back to my previous question a little bit of like trying to

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understand how the the volume won't increase. Um, but with what I'm understand back section, you're basically doing everything you just described in a very truncated footprint and you're trying to expand that out and increase the flow improve the flow of interior.

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>> Yeah, because that's the only area a little bit height and 29 ft that we have. Front area has a 12 ft 20 ft. We basically have the stuff on the floor we call it 40 and then we put something over here. You have to take it all the way back over here as to the logistic. So we can take it back over by using it.

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>> And so maybe to have the most direct question, you're not you're ant you're not anticipating to increase the volume of product through site. You're just trying to make it. >> That's why I said earlier, yeah, we're not going to be increasing the we just increasing make our f more efficient.

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Does that because right now you have those two I'm going to use a legal term funky shaped buildings and then by the square it often makes the flow go better. >> Yeah. Look at it. This is actually tunnel. This connects to this building to that building. Okay. It's only like

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12 ft wide. Useless. All these holes over here 10 ft 20 ft. This all this height is maybe like 12 ft something over here. Not much use out of that one. In Fington only one side 45 plus here. functional one. So all the scenarios

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in the back they have a lower ceiling as well. Those are like very limited what you can do with them. That's help. Thank you. >> Any other questions? >> I'm sorry. While we have the owner up here, can you just give us an idea current operations because you've mentioned outside carriers. So, you

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might have UPS, you might have FedEx. Are you going to have a variety of of different vehicle types that we'll pick up from those companies? So, one day it might be a, you know, short tractor trailer or is it always the same vehicle type? >> It's the same.

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It's the same exact vehicle type. Uh as I say, even the trucks when they come in from post office or from a UPS, they don't leave full. They already have a space in there. So they don't take carrier to send out. They have only one kind of vehicles. And nowadays, you know, people getting similar to what uh

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is UPS, FedEx and Amazon using small vehicles and just make a one day trip once a day to come over here. So the type of vehicle will not change. >> Okay. Roughly how many trucks to get in per day? Uh we have a regular pickup from UPS, FedEx and the post office

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>> daily. >> Yeah, that's a daily pickup from them. >> And then uh big trailers sometime once cuz some company they pick up once a week or once a month. >> Okay. >> We work with Home Depot or Walmart. They only do once once a month because they they take it to their own distribution center. They ship it out from there. So

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we don't have a regular pickup from them. >> So you don't have a significant number of trucks coming to the site today and you don't anticipate there to be a significant number of trucks coming and going. >> Correct. And there you will see that from the traffic analysis also. Okay. >> You can testify to that. >> Perfect.

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>> Okay. So, thank you. Um I want to make sure any other questions from board members. Okay. Any members of the public with questions for the architect? >> Okay. Seeing none, thank you. Thank you.

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Very quick. CD84 please. >> Great hand. We swear affirm the testimony of the given the truth that best ability. I do state your name by last name. Eric Rrookner. R U P N A R A I N.

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>> Mr. Chairman, I do have a copy of Mr. Renarian. >> We just accepted him last month. So, >> he's accepted. He's been >> the license still in good standing, Eric. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Eric, why don't you give the board the

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benefit of your review of the site and the plans that we prepared? Is this the exact plan that was prepared uh and submitted to the board? >> Yes, it is. >> Has not been colorized or changed in any way. >> Correct. >> I don't believe we need to mark it

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separately unless you would like to. I think the further resolution would be appropriate. There is no confusion. Ask which sheet of the dasis. Uh this is sheet number four of the set.

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Thank you. >> And if you could please uh orient the board to the site and what the >> Before you do that, if you could just uh on the laptop stop sharing. >> You can send Jim if I need to. >> I can hit that little

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>> All right. Okay. So, so for board members who are remote, this is this was this the set that was circulated. >> Okay. Um so this is sheet number four of the plan set. Um and this is titled variance plan

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and what in order to orient the board um north is actually to the right. The frontage of the property is route 12. That's the north side of the property. The south side of the property is Raren Township and then to the west of us we

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have the golf course which is to the top of the sheet and then to the south or to the bottom of us is the east and um the little notch along Route 12 that's not part of us. Um I think there was a question previously regarding that existing building that's for sale that's

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located within uh that open area of the property. The area that's shown right now in the checkered hatch, that's the footprint of the existing building. Um the solid dash line that runs through

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approximately the middle of the back part of the property, that's the boundary line between the township of Rarden, which is located to the south, and the Burough of Flemington, which is located to the north of the heavy dash line. The shaded area, the darker shaded

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area, those are the two proposed additions. um that Carlos spoke about earlier. Um one addition is going to be located to the west and that's about 4200 square ft. The second addition is partly located within Ryan Township.

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It's located to the in that north easterly corner of the existing building and that addition is about 4500 I'm sorry 45,000 square ft. Um, in total, the gross square footage of the

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combined existing and proposed addition is going to be about 185,000 square ft. Um, in addition to that, what this plan shows is to the west there's an existing on tributary. I believe it's at the

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Walnut Brook that's located along that westerly property line. In addition to that tributary, there's also an existing FEMA flood hazard area that exists on this property. Um the FEMA flood hazard area is shown on this map and it is

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it is this dash line and it's labeled on the property. Um that is a mapped and studied stream by FEMA. In addition to that, NJB also has their own flood hazard requirements which this stream is not a study stream by DB. Therefore, the

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requirement is that we need to add three feet to the elevation of the FEMA flood hazard area to determine the regulatory area that would be under NJDB's control and jurisdiction. What I have done is this dashed

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thinner solid line that extends through the westerly portion and then diagonally in a northeasterly direction. That is where the NJP regulated area limits are on the property. In addition to that, what we anticipate

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this particular project is going to increase the amount of impervious surface on site. It'll decrease the amount of traffic surface. However, because of the aggregate addition to the building, it will increase the amount of impervious surface on site and it will be subject to storm water control, not

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only under the bur ordinance, but under NJDB's jurisdiction. We anticipate expanding or constructing a new storm water management basin to the west of the property. And that basin is going to be located at the lowest part of the

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property, which is in our township. And that's essentially is the orientation of the property. In addition to those improvements, we have their train tracks along this easterly part of the property. There's existing overhead, I guess,

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metal structures. The applicant is proposing to remove all of those existing train facilities, tracks, metal. the gravel area in this section of the property along that easterly portion is going to be removed and that

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area is going to be reveated. The way the site currently functions, we have a small parking area that's located directly off of Route 12. Um that's located in the northeasterly corner of the property. The applicant is not proposing any changes to that parking

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area. That parking area exists and it'll continue to exist. Um the only thing we may do in that area is to restruct the parking lot. Presently traffic enters the site through two driveways. The parking that northeast northwestly parking area has

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its own separate ingress and eress onto Route 12. We're not anticipating any changes to that access point. Secondly, the main access to the property or to the warehousing and distribution area that is provided by a two-way driveway that's located in the northeasterly

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corner of the property on week 12. Again, we're not proposing any change to the ingress egress. Um, using the standard ashtto templates for a wheelbase 6265 tractor trailer, trucks can enter and exit the property without

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any issues. Um, one of the sheets within the plan set shows how trucks can turn into and out of the property. What we are proposing is a slight modification to the existing building on the northwest fleet corner of the building. There's a section of the of

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the building that's located within the FEMA flood hazard area. That portion of the building is hatched and that's one section of the building that the applicant is going to remove. Um the primary driver for that is to just get the building out of the FEMA regulatory area. Um it will have an effect on flood

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insurance if we don't have the building within a map flood hazard area. Um in addition to that the current office for operations is located in I guess partly within the Renan Township and Flemington Burough portions of the building. The

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office of the new expanded facility is going to be located completely within the burough of Flemington. That's going to be moved towards the front of the building. And finally, in terms of the site improvements, that section of the building that's

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going to be removed, there are currently three loading zones or loading docks in that area for smaller trucks. Um the loading docks are going to remain but they're going to be pulled further back into the property at that new northerly

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wall that's going to be constructed. Our current proposal complies with the burough's requirement for maximum lot coverage. We're compliant with the total floor area um that's permitted both within the township and within the burrow.

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>> So with respect to the parking variances that were identified. We're going to um I think we're proposing 65 spaces and it's a questioning whether 60 mill is required under not the bureau's

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ordinances but because the bureau doesn't regulate that. We're going to defer that for space issue to site plan if we get that far. Correct. >> Yes. >> Um and Mr. Clerico's correspondence

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uh has a big question that he wanted answers to was on storm water and the uh applicant should present testimony indicating whether the bot elevation of the proposed SMW EMP is above the FEMA flood

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hazard elevation and whether the storm water management can be constructed within the NJPT designated flood hazard area and the the size of the basin to comply with the bureau storm water ordinance. You provide testimony discussed that issue.

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>> Certainly. So, NJP has specific regulations that governs how storm water management basins that are located within a flood hazard area has to be designed. Part of the model or modeling that we will have to provide should we get to this point during site plan

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approval is to show how does the basin function. Typical detention basin, storm water is collected directed into the basin. There's a control structure that regulates the rate at which water discharges out of the pond. With those types of basin, normally there's nothing

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on the downstream side of the discharge that could constrain or reduce the amount of water that's discharged from the basin. It's generally an open discharge. Our particular pro project the DP regulations require that when you

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model the basin we have to look at how the basin will discharge and function when the stream is flooding. So essentially you would have to have a model of the stream that shows okay in a flooding condition water within the stream or within the flood plane what

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elevation that is and how the basin operates relative to those conditions. They also the state also has specific requirements that regulates the elevation of the spillway. The basin is going to have to be constructed in such a way that flood waters cannot enter the

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basin under normal operating conditions. Um the discharge pipe they're essentially backflow or check valves that you could utilize. Um, one brand that we've used in the past is Tide Flex and um, it's essentially a valve that operates almost like a dove build that

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if flood waters if the site is flooding the valve closes to prevent water from getting into the basin and those types of valve requires very little elevation head in order to open. Um, that's one mechanism to actually isolate the basin from the flooding

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conditions. In addition to that, any spillway would have to meet the requirement that under normal NJP flooding conditions, we do not have flood waters entering the basin and occupying that space that would otherwise be used for flood control or not flood control but for storm water

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management. The analysis is fairly exhaustive that we will have to go through in order to document how the basin functions not only during normal localized rainfall event but what happens when we actually do have a flood occurring along the stream will the basin continue to function and the basin

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has to function under all of those conditions. So for those non-engineers um of us including lawyers who didn't quite get all of that um is it fair to say that the DP will ultimately be make

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a determination whether that type of storm water management can take place in that area. >> Yes. >> And it will also be the subject of Mr. Clerico's review as well on behalf the furrow. Correct. >> Yes. And it will be an expensive and extensive endeavor to get that

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permitting and review in place. Correct. >> Correct. >> Are you confident from an engineering standpoint that we could do it? >> Yes. I've read through the regulations that the EP currently has published within the flood hazard area rules and I believe that we could address them

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adequately. It's a fairly exhaustive model that's going to have to be developed. Even though this is a stream that's been studied by FEMA, our model is also we are also going to have to provide a model that essentially reanalyze portions of the stream, not

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necessarily the entire stream because our model has to relate how the basin discharge as the flood waters are rising on the property. >> And Ron Township actually is going to get a crackhead at us too because that's located in the township as well. >> Correct.

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Um Mr. Clerico asked um a question regarding fireflow requirements for the expansion of the type of use and input from the burough water department that the current utility infrastructure can accommodate that demand. Do you have an

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opinion with respect to that? So the applicant has um contacted Aquitech um they are a sprinkler design company and they've looked at the infrastructure that's available and the existing water main sizes and based on information that

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we've re received from them that what the applicant will have to do as part of any sprinkler design a fire pump is going to be required and the primary intent of a fire pump is just to boost the pressure in the system so that you could adequately supply water to the

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existing and the expanded building. they they're it's their opinion based on their analysis and I believe they've also had conversations with the bureau that adequate conveyance capacity exists within the pipes and adequate flow is available to the property that

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elimination of the current water tank which is this um gray shaded circular area in that northeast corner of the property that we can eliminate that storage tank and then replace it with the normal fire pumps.

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that are generally used in sprinkler systems in other buildings >> and that would all be needed to be documented through site plan approval as well. Correct. >> Yes. >> Uh and that goes to answer Mr. Kyle's question I believe about why are we

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removing those items? But can you elaborate on that if need be? >> So in the new design or in the expanded design, we don't need the on-site storage. Essentially, the water supply from the burrow will come into the building. It's going to be boosted

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mechanically and that eliminates the need for any of the on-site storage. >> If I could interrupt you and ask, was the additional parking the driver for removing that tank and pump? I mean, is

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it not usable? >> I do not know the condition of the tank and the pump that's there. So, I don't have any information regarding that. But clearly as the board can see the parking lot expansion is located within that area. But as Tariq indicated previously right now they have about 10 to 15

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employees. We don't anticipate any meaningful increase in the employee count and we're pro propo excuse me providing 65 parking spaces. So yes clearly the parking is within that area but it's wasn't really a driver for removal of the system. We don't need it.

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Okay. um that Mr. Clerico was about a landscape plan, but he deferred to Mr. Pal. So, I don't know if you want to hear testimony with respect to that. >> I mean, it's a site plan issue. You know, obviously, if we get to that point, we're going to talk about landscaping, but the one question I did

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have in my review. So, I noticed there's a 50-oot easement to JCPNL on the east side. What can you tell us about that easement? And does that preclude you from putting vegetation and landscape screening in that area?

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>> Answer. >> Okay. Defer to Mr. Sterns. That's fine. I just that's one question that I did have. >> You can answer. >> Can you answer that? >> So I know JC Panel does permit a limited amount of landscaping. They have

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restrictions on how tall or how high the trees what type of vegetation you can put within those area. Um, specifically, I have not looked at their rules, nor have I've spoken to anyone from JCPNL. Uh, Mr. Cernis might have more information that he can provide to board.

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>> Well, so what's what's the purpose of the ease? What's in it? Do they have facilities in that easement today or you can't testify yet? You haven't been scoring. >> Yeah, we'll get you Tom. Don't >> Yes, there are existing electrical um

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facilities within E >> that serve this property or serve other properties. Um, I'm not quite sure if it provides service to us or not. >> Okay. Well, I'm just curious if it's a transmission line that, you know, goes down into Ron Township, that's one thing. But if it's electrical lines that

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go to this building to serve this building, that's something completely different. So, that's possibly an ement that could be extinguished in favor of a connection somewhere else in the property that would allow us then to >> put some screen. >> I can add to it. I can add quickly if

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you refer. These are these are also site plan. >> Yes and no. This goes to negative criteria on >> the use, you know, particularly as I point out my memo like I I went into um was it Clark's Landing? Can't remember what the name of the development is, but

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it's pretty visible. So, I'm just curious if you know that easement is going to preclude any landscape screening on that side of the building. That's it really goes to the use finance honestly. So best of my knowledge what I can say I be see to have required a lot of electricity so they have a big

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transformers next to the silos and everything we there we don't use them so what we came to know that especially for there for the beas so that's what all the ement came in for that one so all the stuff that coming in from the electricity was all for beus because you remember they have big operations over

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there which we don't use okay so then there could be a possibility that the easement is extinguished And that could be an earth landscape >> and that that's something that for site plan approval we can explore in terms of seeing whether the easement can be

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extinguished andor what the parameters of any landscaping would be in that area. >> Okay, perfect. >> Uh let me see if I got anything else for I think we're good. So, other questions from the board of professionals?

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>> Uh, yeah, I have a few. Um, the existing storm water BMP. Can we slide my >> Oh, I'm sorry. Um, what type is that? Is that just a standard extended detention basin? >> Correct. >> Okay. So, DEP is not going to let you expand that

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to do quantity management or anything like that with it. Um, it's not GI certified for for any purpose anymore. Um so also um under their GI requirements,

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they want small basins spread out around >> the property >> the property. Um this one big basin that you're proposing at the low point is probably not going to fly with them either. Um there's something to consider when you know you're designing this. Uh also, have you considered the zero net

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fill requirement of the flood hazard control act? I've looked at it and there are certain parts of the and essentially what the zero net 0% net fill is if we occupy a cubic yard of storage within the flood plane we have to create a cubic yard of storage somewhere else. So

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parts of it is going to be looking at the existing property once we get into that point and see where we can create additional storage. So for instance on that westerly side of the property it may require excavating to create storage there because the building expansion is

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going to occupy some flood some flood volumes in that area. Similarly along the subly part of the property that's not quote unquote in that regulated area. We can create flood storage along different parts of the property to get to 0% net fill. But that is a

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requirement otherwise an NJDB flood hazard error report will not be issued but I have looked at >> okay um um have you considered using porest pavement for the the new parking areas? So we've thought about the different

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green infrastructure with acknowledging that NJP limits all of these essentially any BMP to no more than 2 and a half acres. Um regardless once we get if we get beyond the newsp stage we're going to go through and look at all of those

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BMPs. Um, essentially I need to get source testing done on the property to figure out if those are going to work because all of the infiltration systems require permeable subsurface. >> Um, yeah, that's all my questions. >> You um,

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so I I note the finished floor elevation's 176 and a half and you've got on the north end of the site over 177. any any concerns about that floor elevation? Do you see a scenario where you're going to have to

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raise that finished first floor any as part of the permitting or >> So, generally with commercial developments, you're allowed to dry flat proof a building and that usually requires having impermeable walls. Um, in our particular case, masonary

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structures or masonary foundations can be made impermeable. Um, one we've done it in the past in Lambertville. Um, and there are specific requirements when you drive floodproof. Um, they have floodproof doors that you can install for ingress eress into the building.

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That's usually one option. Other option is that they actually have planking systems that you can install in front of any penetrations. Um, that in a flood event for commercial developments, generally you have some notice that you can put the actual planks in place to

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prevent water from getting into the building. >> Okay. um we talked about the permitting. So I guess um and we could talk a little bit with the traffic engineer about this too, but my read is that we don't need

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65 parking spaces on this site to serve this use. Um even if they added 10 more employees, we're still talking about, you know, 25 or 30 spaces. Um part of that parking lot that's in the northwest corner along Route 12 is actually in the flood way.

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So I think if we get to the point of site plan approval on this, I mean my view is we should eliminate any parking that's not really necessary and maybe we can eliminate some in the floodway. Maybe we can pull some of it away from the eastern property line and push that

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in a little farther. Um but I mean generally when we can reduce it, I think we've tried to do that if it serves that need. that that's certainly something that site plan would be willing to discuss and that's why I kind of wanted to defer those quote

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variances in order to be able to have a further dialogue on those issues. >> Yeah. And I question I mean we don't have a standard for warehouse so we can't really require a variance from a standard we don't have. So I think it's more just about right sizing the parking to the use if we get to that point. So

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and I think it looks like almost everybody's agreeing. So if we get to that stage just maybe keep that in mind. Okay, >> that was it for me. Jay, do you have any questions for Eric? >> Yeah, I just had one I wanted to clarify. I believe I heard Eric say that

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the Westerly driveway serves three loading docks that are going to be brought further into the site and only used for smaller trucks. Is that correct? >> Right now, that's the way the loading area is set up. Um

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because the typical larger tractor trailers, they'll extend too close to the roadway. Um so I believe that that generally serves like the larger box trucks, not necessarily tractor trailers. Um the current loading docks or the tractor trailer loading and unloading in the for the facility. It

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occurs within the Ren Township section of the building. >> Okay. Yeah, that was exactly my concern with that westerly side. There wasn't a tractor trailer template showing how that would work. And it doesn't it looks like it's too close to the highway. So,

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I'm just going to bookmark that for um a potential condition or something. >> Understood. >> Uh board members remote questions for the engineer and testimony. Let's

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jump in. Uh just quick question on kind of storm water even we're not there yet. So all the roof down spouts and everything that's going to be directed to that basin or will there where

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will be directed to the basin? Uh, is there curving around the site so that water is not going to be running from this warehouse on the adjacent properties or is it pitch so that it directs it or

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so? There will be curving on the property um along the new parking lot or along the edge of the parking area. The only place where we currently do not have curving is within um there's a section I believe within the existing parking lot that's in that northeasterly

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corner that essentially the current gravel access to the eastly I'm sorry the westly part of the building. There's an open area approximately there that currently essentially is curbing but it's fully depressed curb that allows uh traffic to

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get into the back of the building but all of the new parking area that's not adjacent to the building will have curbing then the I guess the roof leaders off the warehouse is going to be directed somewhere or is it just onto the ground

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and then where it will our go. >> So, we're going to have to control it as as part of that more comprehensive storm water management plan. We're limited as to how much water I can have going into, let's say, a bio retention basin. I can't have more than 2 and a half acres of imperous surface or total area

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actually. So, we may have to break that out. Part of what we could do is as Mr. Hill suggested or inquired, if forest pigment is an option, we can take parts of the roof and then tie it into the storage layer. So that more detailed storm water analysis is going to show

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what parts of the roof is going where and how it's interacting with the parking area. >> Okay. >> But again just if I could follow up then so the testimony was that there's a lot of work to be done on the storm water and the flood of area.

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acknowledging all of that. But one of the solutions you're you're suggesting is literally just, you know, make the building more uh resilient to the flood, throw out some floodgates and and and maybe,

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you know, give each boy a couple sandbags. Like I I'm just I'm I'm asking what's the real viability of the this extensive of an expansion into flood hazard into the floodway like there's a

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there's a you're you're you're putting a lot into this uh you know potential analysis. I'm just I'm just worried can you talk some more about like what realistically could happen on these sites given the concerns raised by our planner and by our engineer. So no

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improvements are proposed within the floodway. Um, we're not allowed to build anything within the floodway, but currently the current the existing building or the proposed additional will not extend into the floodway. It all extends essentially will be located

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within what be considered the flood fringe which that's the area that's we're allowed to develop or we're allowed to build with certain permits and addressing certain requirements that they would have. Um the issue regarding

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dry flood proofing is essentially it's a FEMA requirement that when you because of the value of the improvements on a commercial project on a commercial development FEMA allows you to drive flood proof a building when you're once

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your improvement cost goes above 50% of whatever the existing value of the structure is and FEMA does have those requirements where demonetrations can be made using floodproof doors, doors that essentially once you close them, they're watertight.

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Um, that's one option. Um, the other option are those planking systems, which they're tied permanently to the building. They're aff fixed to the building and they essentially they're stacked um I guess stacked planks and they have gaskets in between. So once

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they're in place and they're locked, flood waters cannot penetrate the joints. So I think the question might be what is your confidence level that we will be able to secure the necessary permits from the DP

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uh and the board the township um being able to do the expansion within these are >> I've looked at the rights I've also looked at the flood damage prevention ordinance the town has and I believe we can adequately address everything to obtain all of the necessary permits

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>> in order to do all of that permitting requires lots of testing, lots of design, which uh unfortunately for my client or maybe fortunately for you, costs a whole lot of money. Correct. >> Yes. I I and I'm raising the question

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because the expansion of the use um that's being talked about here the fact that the undeveloped the unbuilt on parts of the site are or the parking infrastructure we'll leave the details of that to a little bit later but one of

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the parking one of the parking pieces is certainly in that you know the upper right of your drawing it's it's the west the northwest corner of the parcel clearly You can't do much of anything else over in that spot because of where it's located. You're my my concern here

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and is that you've run you run out of real estate to put any sort of storm water and flood infrastructure here between building and where you just literally cannot build anything in the hazard area. And that's that this is

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where this is why I'm asking question if that makes sense. Eric, there's no part of the building that's in the 100redyear FEMA delineated flood plane. Correct. >> No, that's again the part of the building that currently is located within the FEMA flood plane is that

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northwestly corner that's hatched in where the current loading docks are. That's the section that we're taking out. >> Yeah. But there's a significant portion that's in the NJD regulated flood hazard air when you add the three feet to the 100redyear which they now require.

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>> Correct. And that will that will require permitting from the D >> which is capable of being u received. Correct. >> Yes. >> I'm going to hold I'm going to hold the rest of it for

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>> any other board members with questions. One clarification maybe the dotted line that runs through the middle of the building that represent the NJ line like everything to the west of that would be considered JP.

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>> Yes. >> One other one I know back on the storm water one though the new basin if that got approved the pipe that's there and I guess that's the overflow like where would that go or was something else? So, some of the existing drainage is going

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to get reconfigured in order to direct storm water into the new basin. Um, I presume you're referring to this pipe. >> Uh, like on the right right side, it's just there's like a square block that says pipe and then uh head wall. Okay.

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That portion. I don't know if that was an overflow that the basin got high, it directs it somewhere else. Now, so the outlet structure for the existing pond is located in the southwesterly corner at approximately there and the pipe

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leading from that portion in that southwesterly direction. That's the discharge point from the um discharge pipe from the basin. the pipe in that northerly corner of the basin that actually the way the site currently is graded. There is a swale at the back

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part of the property that I'm not having access to any of the original design. I'm not quite sure why they did what they did, but that pipe actually has a head wall on one end that collects water from the uphill side and then takes it into the basin.

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Gotcha. Okay. Anything else for Mr. >> Yeah, not seeing any more questions. So if it is 8:50, we usually take a break around nine since we're between witnesses. I think it might be good. Oh, sorry. Any members of the public with

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questions for I apologize. Okay, seeing none, um we'll uh take a pause here and we'll come back in five minutes with our next step. Assuming reporting were to come back into session

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if you wouldn't mind Caitlin calling the >> Mr. Campion. >> I think we lost my >> Mr. Dashna >> here. >> Miss Gifin >> here. >> Mr. Schlanganger >> here.

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>> Mr. Sh >> here. >> Miss Swingle >> here. >> Miss Whitesman >> here. Mr. Hayne >> here. >> Mr. Eckle >> here. >> Mr. Papers >> here. >> Thank you.

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>> All right. And our professionals are all here as well. Uh, fantastic. So, uh, we are up for next witness. Yes. >> Yes, I have Mr. here and the CV has been submitted in advance.

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>> What is exhibit A6? Again, I would to recommend that the court the board dispensed with qualification questions as his CV clearly demonstrates his education, training, experience, and knowledge that he is the engineer. >> Any objection from the board?

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Okay. >> Thank you. I guess he needs to be sworn you swear affirm this best of your abilities. >> Yes, I do. So your last name, >> honor Hughes. H U G H E S.

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>> Mr. Hughes, you are a traffic engineer expert correct? >> Yes, that is correct. >> Would you explain to the board what a traffic engineer expert does? >> Certainly. Um so in my line of work essentially we look at individual sites and the traffic impacts associated with

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the potential developments on those sites. Um so we'll look at the existing conditions, analyze what's going on currently. Um identify if there's any existing issues that might need to be um dealt with and then project new traffic on top of those existing numbers u based

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on the development scope. um rerun our analysis with those added numbers to make sure that the additional volume doesn't uh contribute to any additional issues or any significant impacts. Um and then we also generally review the site circulation access um parking

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standards uh all those aspects and compile uh formal traffic impact studies that summarize the findings and and conclusions based on those analyses. Did you do that analysis with respect to this site and proposed project? >> Uh yes, we did traffic impact study

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which was submitted and dated February 20th, 2026. Why >> don't you take through your review and analysis as part of that traffic study? >> Certainly. Um so again as part of that part of that study uh the first aspect is looking at the existing conditions.

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Um so in this case we prepared the traffic counts particularly at the site driveway locations um along route 12. So we conducted an analysis of those traffic volumes during the weekday morning and weekday afternoon peak

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hours. Um particularly we looked at the 7 to 9:00 a.m. and then the 4 to 6:30 p.m. time period. uh this aligns with the typical peak period not only with the um use itself but also the adjacent roadway peak hours in terms of those

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those rush hour volumes. Um so what we do is we do a traffic count during those those time frames um by uh studying the volumes coming in and out of the driveway in this case. Um and then we isolate the highest single hour of uh

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traffic volumes during that time period to use as the basis for our analysis to make sure that it's the most conservative. Um so once we have those those baseline numbers then we need to project our future conditions. Um in this case the first step is looking at

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the future conditions without the improvements which we call our no build conditions. Um to establish these will um do one of two things. First is establishing a background growth rate to account for any uh developments background population growth things like

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that. These rates are published by the New Jersey Department of Transportation based on um the speed limits and the roadway classifications and the area of the state that the site is located in. Um so based on those classifications that we apply a 1% growth rate for uh

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two years and then we also look at adjacent developments meaning other developments that have either been approved or constructed or the process of being constructed that would contribute additional traffic volume um to the study intersection. So in this case, uh there was one additional development located across the street,

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the Liberty Village redevelopment. Uh we did obtain the traffic study for that development and incorporated those volumes into those background growths separately. Um and then we need to project the future conditions with the additional site traffic associated with

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this proposed development. Um, as you heard previously, uh, from the testimony from our applicant, it's a bit unique in the sense that although there's a physical building expansion being proposed, the operations themselves, the number of employees, the number of, um, trucks coming to and from the site

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aren't anticipated to materially change at all. Um, so in the sense of adding traffic there's really none to be added or no significant amount to be added in this case, but we did go through the exercise um just in case to make sure that even

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if for some reason um that additional number came to fruition that everything would still work properly. Um, so we did this a couple of ways. Since we had the opportunity to count the existing volumes in and out of the site and that operator is remaining, um, we're able to establish a localized trip generation

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specific to this user. Um, and then we also looked at the more standard uh, IT rates, the institute of transportation engineers. Uh, they establish trip rates for different land uses based on empirical counts that they've conducted at similar facilities. Um so in this

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case we looked at a warehousing use and the comparison between what we counted at the site which and then prorated based on the additional um building area being added and the comparison from that to the IT rates um showed us that the IT

401
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numbers were uh actually higher than the local data that we collected. Um so we did conservatively use those IT numbers for our analysis. So just to give you those numbers, um for instance, the the site specific data that we calculated for the morning peak hour would result

402
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in 10 trips during the AM peak hour. Um whereas five were counted under existing conditions and then 24 trips during the PM peak hour. Um whereas 13 were counted under current conditions. And then looking at the IT numbers, they would

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project 32 trips during the morning peak hour. This is based on the total um of the expanded building area. And then during the PMP peak hour, a total of 40 peak hour shift. So this is during that single highest hour um of traffic for the site. And to put this

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into some perspective, New Jersey DOT considers a significant increase of 100 new peak hour trips. So we're less than half of that threshold even based on those cons those conservative IT numbers. Um and then I also has a suggested threshold of 50 peak hour

405
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trips where they consider where they recommend conducting a full traffic study. Um which with those IT numbers were below that threshold as well. But we still again went through the exercise um to make sure that all those bases were being covered. Um, and essentially what this amounts to is that this level

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of trip generation, even if it were to amount to that IT number, um, doesn't result in a real a perceptible or significant difference in the operating conditions that are happening on the roads today. Um, you wouldn't see any noticeable additional queuing or

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congestion or or anything of that nature. Um, and then what we do to determine the operational conditions of the intersections is look at the levels of service. Essentially, this is a letter scale A to F, which tells us level service A meaning the intersection

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is operating at its best efficiency. Level service F would mean that it's operating over its designed capacity. And what we found is that uh under the proposed conditions with the additional trips added from those IT calculations, uh the driveways would operate at a

409
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level of service C or better. um which is very typical in New Jersey, very typical of uh volumes of these magnitudes um and would not result in any excessive queuing at the driveways. In fact, the calculated queue was one

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quarter or less uh coming out of the site. Um so again based on those levels of service numbers based on the traffic volumes that that we're talking about um not only through it but also the ones that we observed um again we don't anticipate any uh true significant

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impacts from the traffic at this site. Um and then as far as the site access and circulation and parking um our site engineer kind of walked you through that a little bit. Um so but again the driveways that are existing on route 12 are proposed to remain uh Route 12 being

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a state highway we would ultimately need to get approval from the New Jersey DOT. In this case it would be a letter of no interest because there's no modifications proposed and we're less than that 100 um trip threshold there at the peak hour. Um so that's something that we would pursue if and when we get

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to to the site plan section of the approvals. Um terms of parking, there's been some discussions on those as well. Um again we feel that the 65 proposed faces are going to be more than sufficient to support the demands

414
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experienced um for the current user. Even if in the way future another user came in that needed more, there's still plenty of parking there to support this use. And that's backed up by the IC also supports that with their um parking

415
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standards that they study um where they recommend an average of 69 spaces. So, we're slightly underneath that number, but it's generally consistent uh with the data that's been collected across their 30 or so study sites um that are

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similar in in design. So, just with all that, again, little to no increase in the in the um trips generated to and from the site will not result in any u perceptible impacts to the driveway itself or the adjacent roadways. Um the

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parking we feel is more than sufficient. um and the site can operate and circulate in a safe and efficient manner. >> Before you continue, I just want for the minutes to reflect that Mr. Campy did get on while >> Oh, >> thank you.

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>> beginning of your testimony, but but I didn't want to interrupt you. >> Thank you. >> So, um Mr. Mr. Troutman, the board's traffic expert, reviewed your analysis, your methodology and your counts and your assumptions and

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your use of the most conservative standards and um found no question with respect to the way you did things in your ultimate conclusion. Correct. >> That's correct. and his only uh substantive comment with respect to the study was to obtain that letter of no

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interest from the DOT which we could do as part of site plan approval. Correct. >> Yes, that's correct. And he made some recommendations as to the site plan issues which we would defer to site plan but I think they're all good

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with the stop sign and stop bar and double yellow center line and all those other comments. Correct. >> Yes. and um the truck turn movement plan be already indicated as part of site plan with future. >> Yes, that's correct.

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>> I have no other questions for Mr. >> Jay, we'll start with you. >> Uh yes. Um I summarized all my comments in my memo. Uh I agree with Mr. Grunberg's summary of that and just to report to the board that all the

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calculations are accurate. I think the trip generation analysis and the level of service calculations on route 12 it put a good test on to make sure there's adequate gaps, adequate sight distance, safe operations.

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Um the signing and striping comments and um I do want to look at that westerly area and just make sure we don't get big tractor trailers in there. I guess the only thing that gave me pause and it's probably more for the operator is when

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you go out there now there's signs in front of the property that say they trying to lease space and the westerly driveways chained off. So it just didn't seem like the property was really being used as much as it could under existing conditions. But that there might be an

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explanation for that. So that's really the only thing I have >> no board members with questions. Anyone remotes? >> Dennis, please. Yeah, I'm I'm just confused about the

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testimony earlier um about the number of trucks coming in. You know, you're doubling the size. I know it's going to be a lot more efficient with automation. I'm having trouble understanding how when you have more space,

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how you're not going to have more trucks coming in to pick up the goods or drop off stuff. Can can I rephrase the question maybe a little bit differently which is um we didn't use the numbers

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that um the owner applicant designated as the >> I understand that but there was testimony that there were not going to be more trucks come in. So, I understand his analysis, but I was waiting and I think Karen asked the question earlier

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and we were told to wait um for this, but I'm trying to understand the applicant said that there was not going to be more trucks coming in and I'm just trying to understand the physics of that. >> A bit counterintuitive.

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>> Yeah, absolutely. But I absolutely understand, you know, the um the optics of how do you have more building area and not an associate amount of additional traffic. Um and it's been explained that that really the intent of

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this application is to better serve the existing operations, help the existing operations become more efficient. Um could there be a nominal increase in the employees potentially? Um but our study encompasses that what if scenario um by using the

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more conservative numbers. Um and for instance even the IT data um if we were to look at their truck trip generation based on the the total building size with the expansion during the peak hour it's only a total of uh two trucks

434
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coming in and out. um which essentially aligns with today they're looking at maybe one a day that the building isn't quite being doubled but it would make sense that even if the operation were to expand that that would create another another truck trip um to and from the

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site. Um but again going back to the testimony from our applicant it's really the intent of the application is to better serve the existing operations. I still don't understand that. So that, you know, I it doesn't make sense. Are we saying that there's going to be more

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trucks than we're seeing today? Is it fair to say that using the Institute of Traffic Engineers uh figures, notwithstanding whatever we're saying

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the anticipated truck traffic is, but based upon this use as calculated by the IT, there's no significant increase or impact upon traffic as part of your analysis. >> Yes, that's correct. So you don't they don't have to take our client's word for

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it. They take this the empirical evidence that's been derived through the IT, >> right? Even the IT numbers like I just went through um don't generate a significant number of of truck trips. Again, it would be only a handful a day.

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Um if it again even if the numbers were to better more reflect those those IP >> um maybe a follow question that let's say some point that decides to sell it make the warehouse space so can serve

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the warehouse how does the IT number take that >> so the land use the IT land use is for the typical warehousing so those truck trips associated with that was incorporated into our analysis just as a

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conservative um approach. >> You that was two trucks per >> uh during the peak hour about two trucks. >> So throughout the day might have a few more come and go but during the peak operations only about two trucks.

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>> I'm not sure. No, I'm just curious. Um, you know, provided that the warehouse space is being expanded exponentially and the owner stated earlier that, you know, he's not looking to increase his operations, he's just looking to make

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them more efficient. I don't understand if if if the the the product coming in were to double that you're now going to have the capacity for it which is going to

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increase the amount of traffic coming. So I don't understand how I'm in the same same ballpark as Dennis. I don't understand how and I'm sure that like every business I have my own business you want to grow. you want to grow, you know sure >> now with this increase, you know, if you

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have the ability to grow, make it more efficient, bring in more product and that's great for the business, but you know, this is this now becomes a real issue. This now becomes a real issue. And the IT numbers are the IT numbers, but the IT numbers are probably not

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taking into account if this business were to double. >> They are in the sense that it accounts for the entire building area with the expansion. So, >> even if this were to >> it be a Walmart um if this were to be a Walmart um distribution center, you

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would say the same numbers. >> Yes, it would still be under that same category. So the upshot is that your study using the IT numbers takes into consideration that this use isn't

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what would necessarily be in but what it has determined the warehouse distribution use to be um that might be more intensive than what we're proposing. >> Yeah. that essentially takes into account if a building a warehouse building of this size were to be fully

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operational. >> Did you have a question? >> Yes. This might be I'm sorry if I'm bringing this up. But so we're saying in the front section there that's just for box there's delivery there is a dock up

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there that will be for just box trucks. >> Uh >> or is that being moved also down to that? Like where are we still have two delivery spots? >> Yes, that's my understanding. So in the north westerly corner where the driveway

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would be accessed that little loading area would be for smaller trucks. >> So that's still but that's still current though, right? So that's still standing. >> Correct. And then the other loading area which is access the easterly the main driveway to be for the larger traffic and larger vehicles.

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>> I also just think that it's I think the timing is just we're all a little sensitive because we've had so many warehouses added surrounding us also. So I feel like this equation on top of the three other equations that have also

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been come into play like I'm not sure if that if that I'm not sure how else to raise it or not. >> That's just like something >> um so the question I had was around what happens if a truck comes in and you've

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already got all three loading dots filled and the truck need to go somewhere. Um then a follow question that but where would that waiting trailer or truck? >> Um it's a little bit more of an operational question but for my experience with past warehouses

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obviously something like a situation like that really wouldn't occur because it is managed with schedules and the drivers know when not to say you know obviously anything's possible. Um but in a what if scenario like that would have

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to you know wait towards the the front of the site somewhere there. um it could maybe pull past the loading docks until it's available and then do its reverse maneuver in um but I wouldn't anticipate that to be a regular occurrence if at all.

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>> So just a followup question. So again in the scenario where at some point maybe the building gets sold and become warehouse and you know you see like a Walmart center that has 30 doors. So that's where the question is coming

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from my mind. If it were to change to an operation, okay, maybe the trucks in now or two instead of one, >> but how does the site and I know this question like how does the site potentially accommodate that? >> Yeah, my answer to that is that it can't

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and quite simply wouldn't a user that needs that type of space wouldn't look to rent something or obtain a site that they can't operate out of. Um, so I can't speak to the specific logistics or the operations. Um, but if there were to

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be another tenant looking to fit their business into it, that would have to be something that they make sure can operate within the confines of of what's there. >> I would agree with Mr. Hughes. I mean, this is really tailored to this specific user. It's not going to be attractive to a lot of other warehouse distribution

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type users. not without significant changes to what we see on this sheet because I've reviewed a bunch of these for towns like we have, you know, anywhere from 300,000 to a million square feet. You might see 85 loading docks to adequately serve that type of

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volume. You just couldn't do that. >> That's helpful. >> Yeah. Uh just making sure I'm not sure if the owner had said so this is strictly manufacturing warehouses. No customer pickup like want to buy one of these things or whatever.

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>> It's not open to public though. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> So um when you were doing your study, did you account for traffic back up due to the train? >> No, there's not encountered during our

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our study. You're aware that the train does run. It does stop. It's it's a there's it's not a gate and traffic absolutely cues. >> Yes. >> When Christmas train comes through. >> Yes. >> Easter Halloween and all the rest of it. Okay. Yeah.

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>> So, based on a it's not an NJ transit commuter train. This and it's not a freight. It's it is it is an occasional freight line and it is mostly a weekend >> um Yeah, kind of training.

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>> Um, >> how would your analysis change considering a four or five times a day for 20 minutes? 10, not 20 minutes. It's five minutes and then five minutes of backing up on 12 on a Saturday. Well,

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which I know Saturday something you look at. What would your analysis? How could that change? >> Sure. So, at least for Saturday, the business isn't open. So, it wouldn't have any impact at least during those time frames. going to likely at least during the holiday season be at its

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busiest um on a regular basis. Um could there be instances where that backs up to the driveway? Certainly. Um again, it's not something that would be chronic, but in the event that it does, the traffic volume in and out of the center is rather minimal even with the

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IT numbers. Um so we feel that even with the levels of service being calculated without specifically taking that into account um there is the reserve capacity there to account for any instances where they might be waiting longer than usual um due to those backups.

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>> Okay. Okay. So let me ask another question then. Um so let's in just let let's in the in let's assume that approvals are granted sipheline happens >> the storm waterer is dealt with and this place is operational for some period of

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time and then the owner sell and the subsequent user it's 185,000 square feet not of a warehouse use with but of a use that's permitted use in the TC zone use. So, pick something like a health center

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or a um higher ed or a club facility or one of the conditional uses like retail or restaurants. What how would your I'm not asking you on the fly to do math. I'm asking >> if there was 185,000 square feet of a use like that that is permitted in the

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TC zone. >> Um same less more a lot more. What kind of impact would there be if there was if approvals were granted it was 185,000 square foot facility sitting here with this kind of existing configuration

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>> yeah I mean we didn't do any specific calculations for other uses um our scope is just limited to the use that's before us now um but I can tell you that a retail or restaurant use certainly is going to generate more traffic um so that study area might have to be

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expanded if that was the case um but again based on what's in front of us um we don't anticipate those those that type of volume. >> I think it um it's a little difficult to compare those apples and oranges because

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you're you're building a warehouse distribution facility with limited parking. So, if you're putting in a um a restaurant through that entire building with the parking requirements, you're going to have to have somebody come in with site plan approval and get variance

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relief in order to accommodate that type of use on that site. It's like building a um building a circus tent and saying I you know the circus and then saying I want to put an office in there. You're you're

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building a circus. You know, this is building a warehouse distribution facility to say somebody can convert it readily into a another permitted use in the zone without having to factor in all those other site plan issues with

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variances. This is proposed to be a warehouse distribution. >> It would be hard to adapt this to anything else. I mean because at least in my view if we approve this use come back for site plan we're going to trim this parking way down. >> Oh yeah

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>> and either way they would have to come back to you for site plan approval for the change of use. >> So you would you would have that protection. The other thing too is if the board does approve this you're approving a use variance for something specific. somebody wants to do something

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else or that's even remotely related like you know say somebody wanted to do this as like a last mile distribution center or something other than just straight warehouse they're going to have to come back to this board for amended use fair so we're going to if the board

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does approve this it's going to be tightly constrained as to what will actually be occurring here and what can happen in the future any other board members with questions any members of the questions.

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>> Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Sterns. >> Yes. Sterns is uh was provided in advance as well. >> Yes. A7 board acceptance of professional an

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expert and professional planner based upon extensive educational experience. >> Any questions from the board? Okay, seeing none. Do you swear affirm the testimony given this man be the truth to the best of your ability?

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>> I do. State name last name please. Tom Sterns. S A R Ns. Before we get into testimony, I just wanted to to remind you that our board rules are usually end by end by 10. Um, we're start we're

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starting in testimony before 9:30, so we're good on our rules, but I I I just we may end up having things. I appreciate that. And I guess my question is you >> think we can get done in a half hour so

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that we don't have to interrupt his testimony halfway through. >> That's what I'm that's why I'm asking you how much testimony he has. >> I'll go fast. I don't know necessarily >> 10 10 15 minutes for direct. >> That's more I got I got a lot of stuff

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here, Jim. I'm kind a lot of it out. Well, I don't want you we don't want you to go fast just for the sake of trying to cram this in. >> The reason I'm raising this question is because I didn't I didn't had not looked at the clock until that moment. So I I the planning testimony is going to carry a lot of weight here for these

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questions. So I would like to pause rewind. >> All right. We we agree. I don't want to rush the planning testimony. I I want it's it's that important. That's what this is all about. and rather than take it peacemail, I think we'd rather jump on.

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>> Okay. So, let's do that. I know we've got a different set of professionals than we normally would um in terms of caring. Obviously, our next meeting is on um the 11th. Is that possibility for council

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and is possible? Right now, we have nothing else on the 11. >> I'm actually worried that works for me. It's amazing. >> Yes. >> Okay. So then it's a regular meeting. So I'm assuming

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>> Bob will hear. I have a council meeting that night for >> Yeah. that open. >> Okay. So then let's do this. We are going to carry this matter to our next meeting. Um we will pick up the testimony August 11th. Same time. No

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notice will be required. Um and we'll we'll pick it up there. the full full testimony, one shot. >> Great. >> The whole night, Tom. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you all.

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>> All right. So, um just um just to make sure we have so this is being carried to the 11th on the 25th. Um I don't think we have anything scheduled. We do have September 8th. We're going to do a rescue slot. >> Can pencil that in. Jim's gonna have all

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sorts of stuff ready to go um for us over the next couple of meetings. If folks need to be on vacation, please let us know just to make sure we've got quum. Um uh I don't have any other chair items. Anybody else have anything? >> Okay. Um there were bills circulated. Um

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can I get a motion on the bills? >> So move. I got a second. back in. >> Any uh any questions on the bills? Everything good? >> All right. Uh roll. >> Mr. Campion. >> Yes.

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>> Awesome. Mr. Dashna. >> Yes. >> Ms. Gifin. >> Yes. >> Mr. Schler. >> Yes. >> Mr. Shoe. >> Yes. Miss Swingle, >> yes. >> Miss Whitesman,

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>> yes. >> Mr. Hayne, >> yes. >> Mr. Apple, >> uh, yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, we do not need to go into executive session. I get a motion to journ. >> All in favor say I.