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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=aW7m-3MZDqw

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Go ahead [clears throat] special meeting to order. The time is 11:05. The date is August 7th, 2026. And I'm [clears throat] going to start with everyone please stand if you are able.

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Let's allow our heads. Dear heavenly father, once again we want to thank you for allowing us to rise on this morning, giving us life, health, and strength. We ask you to be with us today as we make decisions on today. Help us to do

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those things that would be pleasing in our sight. So God, we just want to thank you for watching over us all night long as we slumber and slept, keeping us from all hurt, harm, and danger seen and unseen. And we ask you continuously be with us. Give us knowledge and understanding to be able to do those

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things which will be pleasing upon your people. And father God be with us today. Help us to do those things. Once again I say in your name we do pray. Amen. >> Aliance to the flag of the United States of

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America and to the stands one indivisible andice for all. Everyone, thank you all for [clears throat] being here. Do you have um >> Unfortunately, our general counsel

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cannot join us in person today, but he will be on the phone should he needed. >> I'm sorry. Can I come up to the justice sound if it's >> Absolutely. Please do. >> My understanding. Good morning, Don. >> Hey, Don.

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>> Good morning. >> Give Mr. King just a moment. >> Go for it. >> Okay, >> two testing. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you all for being here this morning. Mr. MS,

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thank you for joining us. Derek has stepped out. Absolutely. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Yes. >> Yes, we can. >> Good. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. King.

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>> We were having trouble with that on Thursday night. I mean, Tuesday night as well. Okay, Don is there. We can hear him if you want to start us off. >> So, thank you commission um for being here today. >> Yes, we have. >> Oh, we have it. I'm sorry. Sharita,

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would you do a roll call for us? Thank you, Commissioner D. I got into the sound um so we were >> Sure. Go ahead. [clears throat] >> Commissioner Cynthia Bertton here. Commissioner Linda Moore >> here. Commissioner Lisa Kane Devito

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>> present. >> Vice Mayor William BJ Lorie >> here. >> Mayor Michelle Meyers >> present. >> City Manager Derek Martin >> here. >> HR and payroll manager Sheila Walker >> here. >> And myself the city clerk Sharita Bner.

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And we have a quorum. >> Okay. Thank you. And we have our general counsel. >> Yes. I'm sorry. >> City attorney general counsel Donald Holmes on. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, commission for being here today. Um, and members of the

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of the public. Um, this is really tough for me today. Um, this is not something that that I want to do, but this is something that needs to be done to be brought in front of you to make a decision. Um, I'm going to keep it short, simple, but

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I have lost trust and confidence in my fire chief and uh I have to wait for a second. Okay. >> I'm sorry. >> Mayor, >> yes. >> I have a [clears throat] request on the packet, but could we have just a copy of

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the page of the charter? >> You want a copy of the charter? I'll go get it. >> Just one page. the page that addresses responsibility >> is it yesterday.

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Okay. >> [clears throat] [clears throat] >> Do you want me to put [laughter] >> I We're good for Thank you. [clears throat] She need a guard.

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>> [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] >> Okay, thank you. Okay, I [clears throat] got them. Okay. Okay. Okay. [clears throat] As I stated

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earlier, this is very tough for me. Um, when I was hired for this job, you all asked me to my face and I met you all and I had the same replies I have now. This is the toughest part of my job. And it's not anything that that anyone would ever want to do is to tell somebody that

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they no longer trust you and your services no longer needed. I put together a report on the actions that's taking place uh and the dates. If you look at the emails and the report, everything is written. My conclusions are based on documented uh actions and

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statements made from the chief via email. The discrepancies between the chief statements and the verified operational dispatch record records indicate a purposeful falsification of information related to emergency operations and equipment readiness which of course um bothered me on a Sunday and

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I did my own due diligence to find out that most of what I was told was misrepresented to me. These misrepresentations were presented to me in my official capacity and were framed as urgent operational failures requiring immediate action on the part of the city to unnecessarily provide a vehicle at the time. at this time to the fire

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department under the premise of the fire department being unable to meet emergency response and water rescue needs. Pinning further investigation and action on July 17th, Chief Razer was placed on administrative leave with pay after consultation with Don Holmes, our city attorney and integrity, accuracy,

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and trust are essential to this position of fire chief. The deliberate misrepresentation of emergency response information constitutes just calls for removal. As a result, I no longer have confidence in my chief and chief razer's ability to serve as the city crescent cities in

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this capacity. Therefore, pursuant to 3.06 of the city of Crescent City charter, I respectfully request the commission's approval to remove Chief Razer from duty effectively immediately. He has been notified of this recommendation and he has been provided an opportunity to be here and heard as required by our city charter if he so

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chooses. Thank you. >> Thank you. with that. Um, as you know, this is an opportunity for Chief Razer to also have all of you had an opportunity to read through the paperwork. >> Okay. So, um, at this time, if everyone is in agreement, I'm going to ask Chief

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Fraser if he'd like to come up and speak. >> Absolutely. >> Morning, Commissioners. Mayor, um, I'd like an opportunity to defend myself. Um, I feel that Mr. Martin has provided half truths to the situation. So, I have

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some documentation that I would like to provide and um at the end of this, if the commission still feels the need for me to be removed, I'll resign. Um I'm handing out currently my firefighter bill of rights.

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[clears throat] [laughter] >> Um Mr. Martin has repeatedly broken my firefighter bill rights and in this situation has done the same. um this situation goes way back further than what he is um providing the commission

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um I have proof of that but to address what he has brought up and then we can go back and I can bring up where this all started the situation occurred we had two marine rescue calls in the area uh per his email let me grab it so that I have all

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my documentation correct uh first originally I was placed on administrative leave and per that document it explained bold letters that it was non-disciplinary action. Um, I failed to see how it went from non-disiplinary to request for termination. Furthermore, if you

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continue on with Mr. Martin's uh statements on his second page, it states that verification by city hall shows that STO uh never dispatched Crescent City Fire Department. And then the next one says the second incident involving a capsized boat was also never dispatched. I have the actual dispatch recording and

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dispatched email stating that both of these cases were dispatched. Um I have a letter from STO confirming that they were contacted by 911. Um and I have um

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documentation that I've also sent chief back requests for people to pull the boat that is in question at the fire station. on further investigation as Mr. Martin has done. I have also done the same. I took the VIN number and contact

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Ozark Ford. Uh the boat from my understanding was weighed on Tuesday. It weighs at 3,800 lb without the equipment in it that is required. That was not the flow pump, the hose, the nozzles, the backboards, all the equipment that should be. So give or take, let's add 100 or 200 lb. Say it's 4,000 lb. Prozar

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Ford responded to me stating with that vehicle at that capacity, the police interceptor package with that motor and four-wheel drive towing capacity has a maximum tow limit of 2,000 lb. That is 1,800 lb under what the boat weighs. So,

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the boat on that vehicle exceeds the maximum weight that vehicle can tow. Also per Florida state statute which I have here that boat is required by law to have two means of of braking systems.

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Florida State statute 316 requires every trailer have automatic uh braking actuators that exceed 3,000 lb. Per Mr. Martin, this boat weighs 3,800 lb. We'll use his numbers. That puts it over 800 lb of the maximum limit allowed by law.

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It requires two means of stopping. It has none when it's hooked up to that response vehicle. I've explained to him that before. Doesn't seem to matter. Furthermore, that boat when it's hooked to that vehicle has 4 and 12 in clearance from the ground. It will not

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clear a train track. So I removed that boat from service and came to him several times back in March this past practice because he gave us a dump truck to pull it once. The dump truck was too high and broke the trailer tongue on the boat

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and we had to replace it. So he is aware that the truck we used was out of service. So he gave us a vehicle. Since then he gave us another vehicle to use which we did not use because it didn't have the trailer braking system. When these two calls came out, I sent an email to him and to Chief Beck

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explaining we have no way to respond our vote legally per state statute. We cannot respond that vote. We are breaking the law. He is aware of that. I have this statute here. He is writing in that document saying that I'm giving him false information. I did not give him

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false information. As stated, I also have the email from the county. And what he is saying is that it shows that we were cancelled on that call that we did not respond. We did respond. The county sent me an email and states the

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following. The CAD screen and 911 system shows that the stations were cancelled to free up the station for additional calls, not the units. So the units itself still responded. They reset the station. So if an additional call comes out, they can respond. That's why it

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shows they have been cancelled. And that's why he's saying I gave them false information. The very next document I have is from SITO stating that 911 contacted them and said there was a boat that was in distress and that I met him at the boat dock and offered for assistance. He is

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claiming that never happened. I have the documentation. I can go on and on about this situation. But with that there, that should be enough to justify that I'm not breaking state law to respond to vehicle because he is requesting or saying that I'm not

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following procedures. Furthermore, in none of the documents provided by Mr. Martin, does it say I ever broke a policy or procedure had a complaint by anyone? I was trying to do what's best for the community, trying to get an apparatus to safely move an emergency vehicle. And I was trying to also

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contact the county which I have emails here for that as well. I've sent the chief back with the same request. I'm not sure how it went from a non-disciplinary action under review to requesting termination. I don't feel that we

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I have the statutes here. Um I didn't break any laws. I didn't break any procedures. This [clears throat] all goes back to July 14th um is when all of this started.

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Furthermore, what this has turned into, and I'll just be very blunt and honest, this has turned into a targeting and now retaliation by Mr. Martin, and I can prove it. This goes back to July 14th. Um we started having issues. Then the county requested me to come down and be

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part of a committee. on that committee is because I have taken our fire station to the point where it is now acknowledged as one of the best fire stations in the county by the county and by forestry in the state of Florida. They put me on a committee to represent other volunteer stations and wanted to start doing classes and everything down

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here for us to put on. I went to his office to explain it to him. It was met by being flicked off with Keith sitting across the room from him through the window. Furthermore, it came down. Then I got my documentation. I showed up to meet Miss

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Sheila for documentation. Per my firefighter Bill of Rights, I can bring a witness. He tells her absolutely not. I understand that Sheila's doing her job, but she answers to him. He's her boss. He's created a monopoly where she can't accurately do her job because of whatever he says. So, all my witnesses

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had to leave. Before they could leave, two of my witnesses that are sitting here, Mr. Martin call me on the phone, cuss me for everything I'm worth, and tell me he's going to the commission to take my job. I have witnesses. Miss Sheila was there. Then he hangs up on me and proceeds to call back again and say he's

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calling a special meeting to make sure that I'm unemployed. I have witnesses. >> Miss Sheila was there. I asked her at that moment. What can I do in this instant because I'm being attacked and targeted. All this came from the

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resolution. When that resolution got dropped, I contacted Mr. Martin via email and explained to him I had questions as per session 9 where I'm allowed to ask questions in that. He kept responding back and saying that it was on me. It was on me and if I showed up for a meeting, I'd be able to understand this more or less. It was my

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problem. In that email, I said to him, I feel harassed and targeted at this point. His final email to me was, "Rest assured, this will be handled tomorrow." Next thing I know, I'm placed on leave. That's 100% targeting for asking a question about a resolution on how I'm

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supposed to operationally make it work with policies and procedures when I have questions as per section 9 I'm allowed to ask. This is my defense to what's going on. Like I said, I have state statute to back up what I just said and if the commission disagrees with me, I will

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gladly resign. But that's how I feel and I have witnesses to the situations. If I may, the last comment on the email is because I received an email late in the night when I was in bed and I didn't feel like replying back because it was two pages of of die tribe. So, I'm

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sorry, chief, that I made you feel that way. Um, by no means is this attack. I just gave you a raise and I've been very happy with your work and very happy that you've turned around the station. This has nothing to do with pooling the boat. That was what started this process and what I was investigating. And the

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biggest issue that I had was that I was told there were people in in the water and we couldn't respond to later find out that there was nobody in the water. It's in the email. I provide this email. I would minutes prior. This

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is the chief of fire and I expect him to give me pinpoint accurate information and I was given misinformation and that that is why we are here today. It has nothing to do with anything else other than the discrepancies in the email. And even your email later after you told me

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that you were the one with STO, you told me that the one with STO was called to dispatch and dispatch called STO and didn't page three originally. >> That's correct. >> Okay. So, your other your other email, sir, doesn't state that. It states that

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you took care of STO. Now, I don't really care about STO. I don't care about any of that, but I care about when you tell me we can't do the job because we don't have the apparatus and there's people in the water to come to find out that they're not in the water. And the email the email was created in a way to

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make me feel that it was happening in Lake Crescent because you talk about about being a mile away. >> Okay. So, this is about that. I have the 911 dispatch call. They said there were people in the water. As

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everyone knows, as Major Ustri has told you, as I have told you before, situations evolve over time. The last information I received when I sent him that email was that there was people in the water, there were two teenagers that were on the boat that were unaccounted for. Even when they clear a call, even

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if it was a rescue or recovery, it doesn't mean we have a full patient count. I provided the information I had to him at the time I had it. This information was sent to me from dispatch two and a half weeks later. I can't give him accurate information until I get the information. I provided what I had at

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the time when the information was given. As stated, this this is a targeted attack. >> Thank [clears throat] you. Um, commissioners, I'm sure you've [laughter] got some questions. >> I do have questions. I was just I was a

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little confirmed jumping in before we [clears throat] could ask our questions. >> I understand. >> I think kind of we got some emotions. Yes, ma'am. >> I see that. So, my first questions I

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think are for our city attorney. Um, can he hear you? Don, can you hear us? Don >> Don >> you on YouTube.

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>> Okay, Don. Hi, this is Lisa Deo. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Yes, we we can hear you. I heard you say you're listening to us on YouTube, but we have to talk to you by the cell phone.

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>> It's repeat. >> You're right. It is a bit awkward, but I'm watching you on YouTube and I'm talking to you via my phone. There is a little bit of Liz, a little bit of delay. >> Yes.

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Okay. Yes. Okay. So, I have questions for the city attorney. [clears throat] Um my first question is because um the documents that we have in front of us which are the firefighters bill rights which I think are some also have some

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notes from the city manager. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. There's notes from the city manager and then there's a number of pages about some of the factual issues um that there are.

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I think it would have been helpful um because factual issues are very detailed if we had had those before this meeting. Um but number one, does the firefighters bill of rights

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apply in this um managerial situation? >> Well, the firefighters bill of rights and offer some procedural I guess requirements to taking disciplinary action. I I don't have what

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he has in front of me. So, uh we did meet with him. I was with the city manager during a meeting or when there was a meeting held with with uh the chief and um

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at that time he did not he did not provide any specifics of the firefighters bill of rights that he felt were being violated. Maybe he had had a chance to research it. I really don't know him. Um, but more I try to respond, I probably want

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to see exactly what he's referencing. Um, so that's that's about the best I can do is to tell you that I don't know what he's specifically referencing. Um, it's pretty I don't Well, I'll leave it

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at that. I heard him say that he's been targeted but that is a pretty common response whenever disciplinary action begins. It seems these days say that it been targeted. So, I need to see exactly what he's referencing and understand exactly

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what facts you asserting in support of that assertion before I can comment on it. >> Okay. Well, could I just finish my question that Mr. Holmes made that? >> Absolutely. So, Mr. homes. It's we have we have a situation and this is

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this is my feeling about it. Um we have our city manager and we have a department head and it is apparent to me that the city manager and the department head disagree about how some things should be handled.

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[clears throat] um is I mean is that essential disagreement and um I guess lack of I don't know what to call it lack of getting along or being of the

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same mind um is that sufficient for a department head um to be um terminated. >> Can you hear me? >> Yes. Yes. Okay. So um

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all municipal and government employees in the state of Florida are at will employees, meaning that they do not have a job right. Uh so in essence they can be terminated for any reason but not for one of the

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constitutionally protected reasons like as you know what they're commonly referenced um age sexual orientation ethnicity religious reasons those constitutionally protected reasons are

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exception to the general rule. So the bottom line is yes uh basically a A department head can be like any other employee can be terminated at will by the city if they have a specific

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contract. There may be contractual provisions that have to be honored but otherwise they can be terminated. Now there are uh built in in in general uh and

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sometimes in contract. Now Chief Fraser doesn't have a specific employment contract does he? No. >> No. >> Okay. So, there's nothing then that I have to look at from that perspective. But in general, uh normally, um a a uh

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employee who's being terminated is entitled to a name clearing hearing, for lack of a better term. That's kind of the phrase given to it where they get to present their side of the story. Um usually it's it goes to their immediate

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supervisor that you know that hearing does and then if that doesn't work then it could be an ultimate you know find that would be the commission but in your case the supervisor of the city is the commission. So uh you know the answer is

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yes. I bet he can be turned [clears throat] for reasons of u you know philosophical difference in approach or in what the city manager has asserted was a lack of confidence in the information they

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provided by department head. Um so um I don't know what the chief just presented in terms of emails. I know that when we had our our meeting um my concern

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was that [laughter] I didn't see in the email two things that were interesting to me. The first was I didn't see anything in his email to his city manager that said I'm being

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advised by someone else that um we we had this problem. You know, we were unable to respond to a what what amounted to a life or death call because we did not have a vehicle with which to tow the boat.

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Um, but there was there was nothing in the email that said I'm being advised by someone else that I sit or a matter of life and death involved. Um, and you know, he has not verified that information that that there was actually

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the boat was was was unoccupied. uh tried to understand the timing as best I could of the calls, but you know, my overall conclusion was I I didn't it appeared to me as though the email was

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not not entirely accurate. Now, whether that was due to an intentional deception on the part of the chief or or choice of words, that's something I can't say. Also, I've been certainly getting

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redeemed mail and understand it to mean that he was saying that the the book could not be towed because the uh a weight limit at that time he hadn't gotten anything from from uh Ford Motor Company at that time. As I recall, he he

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said that [laughter] the tow capacity of the boat of the truck on the floor 5,000 lbs which the boat would have been under. Um but he the email as I saw was just that as as he showed me was just that we don't have anything to tow it

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with and reach the same conclusion I guess city manager did mean that this explorer is not operational or you know it's it's not it's not operational we don't have anything to with and the way it was put was you know we we didn't respond to a

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life saving a life or death emergency because did not have something we could tow the boat with Now, I admit that's a kind of a kind of a I guess questionable approach

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for my chief to take there's kids in the water. I mean, you know, but that's my fault. So, at the time we got to the meeting, um, you know, uh, I was under the impression that the email was

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misleading, but whether by intent or not, I I really couldn't say. Um and um now he's produced additional information about tow capacities and things of that nature. He did tell us that the boat had

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been taken out of he told us at that meeting that he had taken the boat out of service by notifying public safety lack maybe on a state level that that the boat was out of service. And I did ask him at that time if he notified the city manager at the

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time that he took a piece of firefighting equipment or life saving equipment out of service and he said no. Um which I thought was significant as well because I've got a department who who takes a piece of who notifies the outside world that a piece of equipment

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that I as city manager believe we've got is out of service. I think I know that when it happens, not after the fact. Uh and that that was significant to me as well. Um and then you know we we got the conversation about when

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the boat was out of service anyway and at some point ask him well how long does it take to put the boat in service? And he said basically [laughter] immediately I can basically put it back in service notify everybody that's in service right away. So I just was getting a little confused. I guess

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from my perspective I was getting some confusion as to exactly what you know was you know what what was his position [snorts] of defense and then but I did not have the backdrop of a request for a different vehicle or anything of that nature. So

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the city manager said he had no confidence anymore that could rely upon a department head to give him accurate information. Certainly understand that. Um much like you as a commission, you depend on your city manager to give you accurate information. If you have to go behind

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everything he says, well, it's not the best of situations. Kind of a life safety role like chief of police, I mean chief of fire chief, you know, the same concept applies. Yeah. Um, so bottom line is, uh, trying to answer your

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question specifically, and I realize I've walked around a little bit, but you know, personnel issues sometimes are not necessarily uh, clean and and easy. But to try to give you a specific answer,

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yes. In my opinion, the the fire chief could be terminated because of a loss of confidence from the city manager that could be based upon, you know, number of factors uh some uh some obvious and some

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not. My concern is that if we're basing the decision on inaccurate information, um then I I I would it's not a question of whether it can be terminated. It's a

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question from my standpoint of uh not basing the termination on inaccurate information. Does that make sense at all Commissioner? >> Well, it Don, it does to me. I think that you were to me you were very clear. Other commissioners may have questions

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for you, but um I think you went through and answered every question that I have and to me you got there in a very logical manner and it sounds like what you're saying is is that um you know there's different reasons for termination. You can base it on a very

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specific factual issue or there's more global issue that I asked about which is a loss of confidence and the impaired working relationship and you spoke you spoke to both of those. >> And I believe I believe maybe I didn't do it as correctly as I

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might have but I believe that I convey what what I you're right that what you may in charge. Yeah, I'm in charge here. Um, did you have any questions? >> Not actually I do. Sitting here reading this initial email. Um, Chief, you say

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at the very end, this is this is another reason why we need to try to find out a replacement vehicle for TR3 as soon as as possible. And what are the other reasons? >> The other reason was which I was trying to relate to commissioner veto. Um, our squad, the truck that actually pulls as

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an F550, it had been out of service since 310 of 26. Hence the reason I didn't re-re Mr. Martin that our truck was out of service because it was never placed back in service. That was the other reason is we have a very unreliable truck that pulls the boat and QR3 is unable to pull the boat. That's

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why I was like, this is another reason why we need to get a a separate vehicle because we have no way to respond it if the county truck goes down, which it had been down since 3106, >> which he was aware of as stated because he gave us vehicles to use during the

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time. more. >> Commissioner Burton, >> this is a simple this is a simple thing I think. >> Yes, ma'am. Um, I only have a couple pieces of data here and uh, basically

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when you take a look at it, you you really didn't at the time, okay, that these calls came in it and then reading through here, I guess they did not come into Crescent City. Um, you said they came in Crescent City. >> Yes, ma'am.

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>> And you said that uh you weren't able to respond with our vote because we had nothing to pull it with. [clears throat] >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Um, and then there was a second call that came in. I mean, you just have to read this. You know, today we had younger kids caught in a storm in the lake. A

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storm sent the boat in station 23 from sets that had come down in the We were never called on that either. Okay. as as far as what I can see on the call list. Um so you're making it

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I hate to say it, Chief, but you're making it sound like can't take it because we can't pull the vote. Okay. And then they gave that response to somebody else

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and it and it doesn't sound And but I'm going to tell you this, [clears throat] once you lose the trust of who you are working for, once you lose that trust, um it's extremely difficult to work together at that point. And I

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hope that you understand that. >> I do, but I I I'm trying to see where it said in here that we couldn't >> Well, I'm just looking at things. >> We did get her finished, please. >> Yeah. I think, you know, I look at when things were cancelled. Um, you know, if

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I if if you're calling me and you're telling me there's something going on and I can't get a boat out there, uh, and and now I'm all worried, okay? Because that's our job is to respond. But when you're telling me that and you're not really being

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uh, you know, fair in saying that, they never called Present City. Okay. I just kind of I just kind of knew about it. >> We did get called. That's what I was saying. This letter came in from dispatch and the reason it's showing cancel is because they canled the station. So the

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station can be repaid. We did get paid. I have the recording from the call where we were paid. >> But that's not what you're saying in this letter to him. What you're saying in this letter is that we got called. We didn't go because we didn't have a vote. Is that what you told them [clears throat] >> when they called you? Is that what you

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said to them? We can't vote because we don't have a vote. So you may as well cancel us. and and put us back on so we can do something else. >> No, ma'am. We responded to the call. We just didn't respond our code because we had nothing to pull it. We responded to the call. We were the first truck at the scene actually.

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>> Okay. >> Does somebody have a question? >> What What good does responding with a truck if there's somebody out on a boat? [clears throat] >> Because on our trucks, we carry flotation devices, water. We can still try to get to the personnel.

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>> Where did you >> uh we responded our truck and they once they got there they were trying to locate the boat. Engine 9 also came over and they tried to get out to the boat. It was they were in bad weather and they tried to get into the water. They had to wait for Marines there because of the location.

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>> [clears throat] >> I'm sorry. I just don't understand. Why are we not using what we can get to them? >> Well, it wouldn't have made it to that call anyway because it couldn't appear to the train tracks >> in your opinion. Yeah. >> Orange clearance. I'm

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>> And that's in your That's your Okay. >> Is Huntington Road a mile away? I don't need too much >> where this call was. >> That was talking about that boat range. >> Thank you. >> So, the email was talking about Crescent. >> Crescent Lake.

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>> Crescent Lake. >> When I got back in town, I took the QR. I pulled the boat down. I launched it and I retrieved it. There was no lag. There was no issue. Now, I understand in emergency situation, we have people on the water. I want my chief. I want my

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guys saving lives. The call was at Huntington, not one mile away. This email paints a picture as if we could not take a call on Lake Crescent and that we had kids in the water and it took 30 minutes for Satsuma to get here commission. That is my

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problem. It has nothing about pulling boat. It's misinterpreting the facts and giving that to me. And that's why I've lost total confidence in my chief. And I [clears throat] get along with this gentleman. I have never attacked him. That was the information that was given to me. Let me finish. I have never

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attacked him. I never threatened his job. I tried to keep this as quiet as possible between us so we could talk. He talks about the Bill of Rights being foul about coming in that it was just to get a piece of paper, not an interrogation. And when we had the

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meeting with Sheila Useri and our legal council, he was given the opportunity to bring whoever he wanted and he said he didn't want anybody there. I gave you notes in your file on the bill of rights with notes for each one to make sure

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that I followed it. Chief has made very aware that I have to follow it. I have been threatened by him to the state. I had we had multiple meetings and found information that was given to us improperly before. This is not the first time this has happened and I have given

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him several chances and I have everything in this file this file and I'm sorry that I have to do this today but my recommendation stands. >> Okay. Um I just have a I have a couple of questions. First off, um you noted

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that that he um used I guess very foul language and and Sheila, were you in part of that conversation? >> I was. She was >> I was walking in >> when that conversation was going on. Um

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Derek had asked me to call the chief >> and have him come in. Miss looking to use the house. >> Um Derek the city manager asked me to call the chief and have him to come in and um give him this put him on the

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lead. And when he came in, he came in with um the volunteers. >> Okay. And so that's what we was confused at because it was only a conversation between me and the chief. >> Okay.

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But >> but yes, >> I you asked a question about >> I understand my question. I understand my question. >> I just didn't hear. >> So the foul language I guess was that over the phone? Did you say it was over the phone that he spoke to you when you were part of that?

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>> I walked in and yes, I did hear. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. So they they were having a confrontation. >> I wasn't saying anything. Like I said, I have witnesses that can vouch for that.

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>> Um, this vehicle, I know from [clears throat] and we've heard this multiple times, is in your opinion not sufficient. Um, and you have been asking for another vehicle for a very long time. Um, I actually asked the city

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manager because he was very distraught over this. Um this when he got this email and uh immediately um you know he he was concerned that we as a fire as our fire department that we were inept and we were not um we were

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not performing our duties and someone's life could have been in in danger. Um and that's I think when he decided um to start exploring this because he was he was very upset about it. And I did ask him, has anybody ever taken that

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vehicle? I mean, most of us have grown up around boats and vehicles and um and have you ever taken that boat? Has anybody taken that boat with that vehicle and launched it in the water?

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And um that's when I think you went ahead and you you did that. You videotaped it. Correct. Did you videotape it? >> Yes, ma'am. I did. >> Okay. You videotaped it? >> I did. you were able to put it in the water and pull it back out of the water. And I asked the question, how much does

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the boat weigh? >> And I guess at one point, did you think it had weighed what, 5,700 lb? >> My understanding was it was just over 5,000 lbs. So I'm glad it got weight because I didn't know where to get it. So, so my question to you as somebody

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who is um my question to you would be if I had a doubt um [clears throat] rather than speculate, especially when you're dealing with the situations you deal with, um why did you not take that boat

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up and have it weighed and get an accurate weight on that boat? >> For two reasons. one, um, it shouldn't be pulled by that car by law anyway, so it was never going to be hooked to it. So, I had no reason to go get it weight. The boat weight at that point with what

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we're using to pull it or what had been used to [clears throat] pull it in past practice for years has no problems. The towing capacity on that is well above and beyond. And that car is not designed to pull it. So, I had no reason. >> But in an emergency situation, knowing you didn't have that, I would want to know. Um, that's just some information I

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would have wanted to know is [clears throat] as and and so when did you get so let me ask you this also. So when did you actually reach out and get the documentation that you have um as far as the fact that that vehicle could

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not pull 5,000 lbs. So on the day of the incident, I contacted Ford. I contacted dispatch and I contacted um the day I got the letter from Michila. >> That's when you contacted them. >> I contacted Ford that day. I contacted

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Dispatch and Seto the day of the actual >> That's what I'm asking. I want to know when did >> the day I got letter from Michila. >> Okay. So that's when you decided to delve into it and actually find out if in fact that vehicle could pull that. Okay. Um, does anybody have any other

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questions? >> Um, well, my only question, mayor, is well, I don't think I I don't think I ever heard the answer about the profanity issue, but be that as it may. Um, [clears throat] I believe the chief said he had people to bring to speak.

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>> Well, I'm I'm giving right now. This is between us and I mean, this is between us and him at this time. And then if he needs to bring a witness, I just wanted to make sure the commission questions. >> Question. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, what's the mileage on QR3?

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>> Uh, the last time I was over there, just under 60,000 57 >> 57. [clears throat] That was a police car for >> Yes, ma'am. And [clears throat] if I could answer um the attorney said he wanted to know what

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actual things I was um talking about with my firefighter bill of rights. I have this for you. Um not that at this point it doesn't sound like it's going to matter, but um under uh statute 112.82

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section 8 says I should have significant detail in the investigation. Um, I didn't have significant detail. All I had when this started was a letter saying I was placed on leave and it was non-disciplinary. That's all the detail I got. That is non-sufficient detail of

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what is going on. I had minimal time to repair it. And furthermore, I was removed from the station where all of my documents and everything worse. I had to get all this documentation on my own from recaller saved emails to my personal. [clears throat] Next one was during the informal interrogation under

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section B. Um, it says firefighter may not be as subjected to offensive language. And as I've stated, I was cussed out, flicked off that directly violates my firefighter bill of rights, uh, by Mr. Martin. He was on the phone. I got hung up on and did it again. And then the last one, um, like I was

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saying, under section Z, I can't be dis demoted denied transfer discharged. Um, >> and I'm trying to figure out >> Hold on one moment. >> I think it was another phone call. Okay. Okay. Go ahead.

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>> Still on. >> Okay. >> And then under that one, um, I have no reason as to why nothing in that document tells me as to why I was put on leave. I didn't break any policies, procedures. I had no citizen complaints. As far as I knew our station was doing well. Um, I sent an email to inform Mr.

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[snorts] Martin what was going on. Yes, some information was incorrect. That was not intentional. And that's the other thing I was going to point out. The email came to me from the county with the accurate information on the 28th. This call went out on the 12th. I had to wait that long to get reasonings on why

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it's showing that we were cancelled when we weren't. I had to wait that long to find out the actual all the back information. So, he's he's painting a picture is that I lied to him when the truth is I just didn't have the information until a later time. And you shouldn't have created the

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story. you should have waited till you got the information because if I bring the information to this group that's inaccurate or false or misleading, I'm fired. That's was not my job to it's my job. >> I want to say one more thing. Um

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we're talking about the weights. We're talking about the vehicles. We're talking all that. Again, I want to reiterate has nothing to do with any of that. And when it comes to the fire code or your the firefighters bill of rights, I paid very close attention to this. I'm

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a very quick study, I made sure that everything was followed. You were never interrogated. We had a meeting. The letter stated that we would have a meeting. letter stated we were invest we were doing an investigation that you would be given that information which you were given the information

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that this commission has today back on that date when you myself user and our attorney met you were given all of the data >> no sir I was given this document I'm talking about from the time she handed me that document to the time that

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investigation is when that occurred and that was considered an investigation >> in the letter it says >> in the letter we were under an investig. We were looking into the investigation. We were You were not You were not We were looking into the facts and I gave

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you the answer once I found the fact. Let's We're not going to go back one speaker at a time. >> And I'm I'm done, Mayor. I I appreciate the time. Um that's that's all I have to say. I mean, we we followed it to a tea to make sure that this wouldn't happen because again, I had per I have been

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personally threatened with lawsuit on multiple occasions from this individual and and I'm I'm good. I'm done. I followed everything to the tea. >> Mayor, I have one last thing to say. >> Yes. >> Um I've just proven to the commission in writing how it documented. He broke my

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firefighter bill of rights three times. If we move that boat with that car, that breaks statute. That breaks law. So, if I understand this correctly, if we follow what he tells us to, every time we hook that breaking the law. >> I I would like to say one thing, Mayor, in response to that.

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>> Yes. And then I want to go to Don. I'm gonna look in your eyes when I tell you this. If you have kids drowning out there, I expect you to hook up whatever you got to do to go save lives. >> I'll put that on. >> Mr. Holmes, Mr. Holmes, you there? Don.

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>> Don. [clears throat] Don Mr. >> Um, okay. In the meantime, I'm going to You said you had some witnesses. I'm going We're going to allow them to speak. They would like to come forward.

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Um Please state your name, your address if you will. >> Cassandra Bailey. >> I'm sorry. Your name? >> Cassandra Bailey. >> Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. [clears throat] >> Yes.

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>> And your position? I'm a volunteer. >> Thank you for being here today. >> Okay. >> Um, did you have something that you wanted to say? >> Yes. We were coming down here to support Razer. um he did not request us to be here. There was something that the

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department felt that there was some conflict going on. So, one of the um staff at the fire station asked for all of us to come down to support him. We were in a class during the time that Misha um notified him that he needs to

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come down here. So, one of the fire department members asked us to come that day because they were worried that he would be under um I don't know being punished of some kind. So, we all wanted to talk to Miss Sher or whomever um to

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basically a character um of who he is to us and the trust that we have in him and how how much he's gone above and beyond for us. We did not realize half of this. Um, so when we came down here to Miss

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Shiva because he was supposed to have a witness of some kind anyway, um, due to the bill of rights. So we were all going to be a part of that as well, but wanted to also give a chance to just give be a character of who he is. Um, during that

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time, we came in here to wait um, with Mich. And then when we sat in here, he called and we could hear he wasn't even on speaker phone screaming, cussing, saying that we were down here intimidating. Um, he felt like we were all down here and

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that was intimidating to him. Um, I heard him say, "You should be a man and come down here and be able to talk to me and stuff like that." And just and I have I liked her, but I mean that was definitely out of line.

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>> Okay. Thank you. You have anybody else? >> Yes, ma'am. I'm up here. >> Okay. Just just a second. Mr. Holmes, we have a >> Jason Munelunteer station. >> Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me? >> Yeah.

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>> So, I I don't know a whole lot about anything, too. I've met Derek a couple times. Anybody? >> I just know I've known Chief since February, I think. >> Just hold on a second. I I know that his car

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>> one second. >> He's live. >> Mr. Holmes will be with you in just a second. We have another witness that's speaking right now. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. And uh so I've known Chief since February and I' I've only seen good things. I've seen him in in there like

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busting his butt to do everything that he can for everybody. And he's always on top of everything. I can't say what facts are are facts. I I know there's a tiff between you two and I don't know what that is about, but it'd be nice if we could just get it

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past that and not have to deal with this kind of thing. Taken up hours of our days for no reason. So, I don't know. That's all. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you for coming today. We have anybody else that would like to speak at this time?

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>> Um Mr. Holmes. Um the fire chief has um alleged that for us to have him pull that boat with the vehicle that we have in service here that that would be breaking the law.

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Um and that so I just want your thoughts on that. >> Are you there? [laughter] Mr. Holmes, >> I guess [clears throat] I wouldn't mind asking that question. You know, you say we'd be breaking the

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law if we were to tow that boat. Is there something that specifically says? >> Okay, Derek, I'm sorry. I guess we keep dropping or something. I'm watching on YouTube. >> That's okay. So, the question the question that we've had, Mr. Holmes, is um the fire chief has alleged that for

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us to pull that boat with that vehicle would be breaking the law um and of Florida law. Um are you aware of are you aware of that? And and if in fact, is that is that the case?

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>> Well, breaking a law, I don't I don't know. You may be You may be operating the the vehicle and the trailer in violation of a statute that prescribes.

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I [clears throat] think he cited that every every every boat or trailer that carried more than 3,000 lbs had to have a had to have operational breaks. But breaking the law, you would very well have an issue of

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liability if you were operating the vehicle in a way that was in excess of or violation of the statute regarding safety equipment. Maybe very well maybe you were would be. Um

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the problem I have is again um that's the sort of thing that should have been in my in my opinion and maybe I'm going beyond what what you asked but if there was an operational

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issue such as no no breaks. Now, he told me during our conversation with Derek when uh Captain Dory was president, uh Derek and myself and him, I asked him what he meant by brakes and he said,

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"Well, the trailer has brakes, but we don't have the hookup on the truck to activate them." And so I was, "You mean you the fifth wire? I mean the they're electric brakes." And he said, "Yes, but I don't know whether they are or not." often times brakes on a trailer of that

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type are surge brakes. But but my question was uh you know that's that's an easy fix. I mean you can have a a wire run real quickly. So if that was his concern as a department head that it didn't have operational brakes.

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>> Again I don't understand why that wouldn't have been something that he would have pointed out instead of saying new vehicle um or different vehicle or whatever. So, you know, he said the same thing during our conversation. He said, "So, if I get in a wreck taking that

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thing down to the boat ramp, uh, then you you you won't you the city's going to have liability or you're going to put the city in danger or something that effect." And I said, "Well, you know, first of all, uh, if it's a mile that we've got to travel and we've got two

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kids' lives at stake, you kind of have to balance the risk from my perspective." And that's I'll probably offer an opinion that you didn't ask for, but I responded to him. And then um secondly, again, if that was the only hangup, uh then I don't understand why

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that those specifics weren't referenced instead of saying we don't have a vehicle to however that email reads. So, I hear what he's saying now um about and and I would not advocate that that

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vehicle be used uh on a regular basis to tow the boat. Even though, as you said a minute ago, we've all known around boats and water. And I'm sure I've towed vehicles, I mean boats and things with vehicles that technically by spec might not have met safeguard. Usually what

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everybody does look at the tail rating. It says 5,000 lb. That's what you go by. only right Ford Motor Company. But having said that, if he felt that was the concern, no brakes on the trailer that operate even though he told me he had brakes that the problem was not the

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trailer, it was the activation from the vehicle. But if that was the problem, then again, I I do understand Derek's concern that that information wasn't conveyed. So that you as a chief administrator, you could make some

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operational decisions. Okay. Do I for shortterm in an emergency, do I have the other wire run for 150 bucks so that there's at least something we can make a one mile tow with or do I just say, okay, this this can't tow the the vehicle or the boat at all. I think he

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did tell us that the boat weighed more than 5,000 pounds when we were in that in that conversation and I I did express my doubts that that u that it weighed more than 5,000 lb almost 6,000 lbs and Carolina ski 21 ft long just didn't

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think it did. Uh but you know uh I guess to go back to your question, I would not for liability purposes, I would not advise that that vehicle be used to tow

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the boat without breaking capacity. um if if he's if he's correctly citing a statute that says that it has to have braces that's more than 3,000 but [clears throat] I don't know whether or not that bra capacity could have been as

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easily established or easily established by simply again adding a wire that connects the brake brake lights of the vehicle to the brake activation on the trailer. um which which is a whole different it's a whole different issue

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than saying we don't have anything to tow it with. So, um, you know, and then of course the tote capacity. I I honestly don't know. Like I said, when we had our meeting, we all this was explained to him. City manager's right about that. We I think went into

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everything that you're hearing now at that meeting. Um, and I will specifically ask could he bring somebody if he wanted to and my response to Derek was he bring whoever he wants. Um, to make any effort to try to foreclose him having representation of whatever comment that at that meeting we had.

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that at that point my understanding was first it was well the vehicle the tow rating is a you know vehicle towing you know it's rated for 5,000 pounds and the boat weighs 5700 or something like that and I doubted that and then we got the

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brake issue and I'm and I asked him are you saying what are you saying about the brakes does the trailer doesn't have brakes no it has brakes we it just doesn't have the connection so that I can activate them from the truck. So

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again, uh I guess details certainly I guess someone has to draw a conclusion about you know why they weren't included but um you know the the point is they weren't

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included and if I read the email you sent it to me and I said you know it looks like I mean it looks like he's saying he didn't have anything to to but when when was that on I when was the issue of breaks to capacity

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on specifics so that you could look at his reasoning and maybe it would dissuade you from believing he simply wanted you know another truck. Um so that's that was my concern at the meeting. Um, and I probably voiced

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voiced it just that way actually that um, if I had been in Derry's position, I would have probably felt like I'd been misled a little bit. Um, whether intentional or not. And during that conversation, you know, it was it was determined he wasn't on duty at that

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day. He wasn't in the town [laughter] that day. Um, and so I'm asking even when he wrote the emails, I understand he wasn't in town or on duty. And I like, well, where' the information come from? You read that email. It looks like it's a statement, you know, this. And then he said, well, they got from the

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guy who actually responded. Um, so it was relaying secondhand. You know, they couldn't respond. You know, had to come 30 minutes away. Um, because they didn't have anything to tow with, which I would assume had a broken down vehicle or something in the station. and uh you

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know and Hutrey was there and he I think during the meeting said that he they looked at the CAD and they weren't dispatched. Um that's all we had at that point was you know him saying he looked at the CAD. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. So I guess I have a one more

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question. You stated um a moment ago that you met CEO. >> Yes ma'am. >> So you did you you came over and met CEO >> the day before? Yeah. On the 11th. No, the day that they responded >> on the 11th. Yes, ma'am. That was the day before the second boat crash. I'm at CETO at the boat ramp.

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>> Okay. >> But to answer Commissioner Burton's question, the state statute is 316. >> Okay. Okay. >> Section 4, seven, and eight. >> It's under motor vehicle. So, it's under the motor vehicle under >> requires the breaking.

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>> So, it's not criminal necessarily, but it is a motor vehicle violation. And also to answer his question, Mr. Martin knew about this since 310. The breaking issue is nothing new. This has been known. That's why he gives us spare trucks. I know he's trying to spin it and say he was unaware of that, but why

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would he give us spare trucks? >> Okay. >> Can I just [clears throat] >> I think Don makes pretty good point when he says you are the head of the head of the department came in and said, "Look, I need this break to be >> I I did since 3:10. I've been relaying

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this." All I'm saying is it would seem to me when we keep it push that's all you learn that hey >> I don't know what more I guess you both um >> yes >> can I ask a comment >> yes ma'am

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>> oh I'd like to ask it to state Stacy >> Cassandra >> Cassie >> Cassie >> you said when I called the chief and I was talking to the chief. You guys

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decided to come down for support. How do you know what I was talking to the chief about? >> I didn't know that you >> Okay, let's if you would Can you come up? Thank you. Sorry about that. >> So, we were in class during the time that he stepped away and he said he

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needs to go down to the city hall immediately. Um he didn't say exactly for what. Um, I said I told them because there was an I think there was a meeting the day prior I believe that we could not come to or I knew there was a

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meeting coming up. Um, so I contacted the people who contacted us to schedule to come down for a character witness which I knew a few of them had already spoke with you I believe the day prior. So I text them. [clears throat] He said after here I have to leave and go down

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to the city hall immediately. He says, "Not sure why, but I was told as soon as I leave here, I need to go down there." So, I text the people. I said, "Well, it sounds like maybe we need to go down and talk to them sooner as a character witness." I don't think I don't know if you called or text him, but he did step

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out during our class. >> So, you decide to call the rest of the team just because he was coming to a meeting. >> There was a group text that we had we had already set up to come. I believe it was Friday. I'm not sure exactly what day or the following week, I think it

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was a Tuesday, we were going to come down because there was a meeting. He knew of some issue. Not sure exactly what. During the class, he steps down and I could just tell something wasn't right. He says, "I don't know. I just need to go down there as soon as we're done with this class." So, we need to

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like hurry up. I could definitely tell you. >> Thank you. >> I do. >> Um I have one question. At any time were you told or did you did anybody was anybody told or was it in your text that um your jobs also could be in jeopardy?

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>> No. >> Okay. >> And so mayor we uh uh have a statement from from Eric Smith. Okay. as well

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on what was said between him and the chief on that call. >> The call that >> the original call >> the original call >> for for the kids in the water. >> Okay. >> On Huntington and the complete statement contradicts what the chief has told me

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in this email. >> Okay. Commissioners, do you have any other questions? This is always never this is um the most unpleasant part of our of our >> of what we do. Um I know you did give Chief Fraser an opportunity to resign

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and I believe you even held any of the paperwork or any of >> your your email >> until [clears throat] today. >> Yes. >> If you would like that letter, I have it for you. letter from from >> letter resation

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>> because I I can't with sound mind break the law and be targeted and harass when I'm bringing proof state statute have full backing of my fire station just because the information I relayed to Mr. Martin, as stated, was not completely confirmed until

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16 days later. We asked for the trailer brakes since March that we've been given trucks. He's spinning this situation to make me look like I I kept dropping the ball when the brakes have been asked for. The laws have been put in place.

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I've followed everything. I didn't break any policies, didn't break any procedures, had no complaints. I've done everything I can to make this department. And as you heard from the personnel, um, the best I could possibly do. And apparently, >> I don't know what else I'm supposed to do.

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>> Okay. First off, I I believe that the trailer brakes, um, if he's providing vehicles, still the trailer brake should have been taken care of regardless of whatever vehicle he's providing. >> We asked for that. >> Um, so that's

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those [snorts] are two different whether he's providing a vehicle or not. the trail breaks. >> I agree. >> That has been a request >> should be. Yes. And that's an easy that's an easy fix. >> I agree. >> So, um yes, >> I don't know where we are in this meeting. Um but this will be the last that I'm going to speak of this and I'm

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going to look at you, Chief. I have been proud of you. I thought you have done a big turnaround since the day that you came. You and I have had multiple meetings, unofficial, but multiple meetings. I haven't written you up. I kept documentation on the meetings so I

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can know dates. I've given you several data boys and I've been very proud of how you turned around the people in your department to follow you. The day that everybody came up here, I felt very intimidated because you received a private phone call to just receive a document and we had all the firefighters

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up here. >> Again, she just please let me finish. I probably raised my voice at you. Absolutely. I do not recall cussing at you. I don't cuss at my employees. I don't do that. That's I just don't do that.

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I did raise my voice and ask you why would you get everybody to come down there? That is intimidating. I never once threatened your job at all. And it was not disciplinary. I put you on paid administrative leave while we could get the facts and the data. As soon as I did, I brought it to you. But I'm going to say this, and I'll say this lastly,

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you got and received a raise. And I told you how good you have done. This is not personal. This is not an attack. This was information at a very high level that you gave me that was inaccurate and short. You didn't finalize gathering

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your data. You are the chief. You're the chief. You work for the county. You can make that information. >> I think that may >> I think we're commissioner. >> Um I did have one final followup

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question for the chief. Um, first chief, I appreciate everything that you've done here and it's my understanding um that we hired you as a part-time chief, correct? >> Yes, ma'am. >> And just share with us um to remind us

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and anyone who's listening, you are also um employed by another department. Could you share what that department is and what your rank is there? I can Oh, can I ask the reasoning behind that? This is city business and doesn't

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involve that department there. >> But do you work for a public agency? >> I do. >> Yeah. I I think it's very relevant. We hired you because of your experience and what you do. Um you're regardless of what happens today, it's my understanding you will still have

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employment as a firefighter. Is that not correct? >> I will I I will have employment. it it will not look good. Um, but I felt that if I came here and and pled my case and explain the situation to where we have

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asked for this and where I've asked for breaks and where we pass practice of the trucks and the way that I was treated by our city manager that the commission would maybe do a progressive punishment if they saw something wrong, a written reprimand to write up a suspension, not just straight determination. that was

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never discussed and stated. My original document said this was non-disciplinary, which goes back to Mr. Holmes's statement of why I didn't bring a witness with me because I was told it was non-disciplinary, which again breaks the firefighter bill of rights. As I keep saying, I keep

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following state statutes and laws. I'm staying within boundaries. I'm staying within what I'm supposed to. The information I provided to Mr. Martin, as stated, was sent on the 12th. I didn't get the follow-up information to the 28th. I provided as most accurate as I could. >> Okay. Um, thank you.

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>> Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you. And and I um Don, I'm going to ask you um did you hear what he his statement was? Did you hear his statement? >> Only in part I walked out of the room where the YouTube was on because it seemed interfering with the phone conversation. So, um, what I heard was

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him saying that, uh, he cited the statutes that he believes he relied upon, although he didn't decide in those ter um, as I've indicated. Um, and he said he's followed all procedures and and

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that and all protocols, etc. That's what I heard him say. >> Okay. And I I do want to say that um never never mind. Um Don, if you would um give us some uh some

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directive here to make sure that we proceed properly. Um it appears that Chief Razer has a resignation letter. Um is that correct, Chief Razer? >> Unless the commission sees fit to reinstate me, I will resign. >> Okay. and he he has said that now of

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course we have not taken a vote so he doesn't know where we stand at this point. Well, the the letter of resignation at this point probably is not that significant to me because I think that if it's his desire to challenge your

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action, then he's going to characterize that letter of resignation or his resignation as a forced resignation. Uh had it come, you know, earlier before the hearing or soon on soon after uh well, even during the meeting that we

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had had earlier, then maybe not. at this point whether whether he resigns or is fired from my perspective doesn't he's going to in my opinion he it's very probable that he would you would assert that his resignation was forced. Um so

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doesn't really matter to me uh from our from the city's legal perspective whether he resigns or is terminated. um unless he's you know basically saying that his resignation is voluntary and is he doesn't consider it to be forced and

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he were to say that then perhaps I might change my mind. Um so from my perspective at this point uh going back to what commissioner Devito had asked me earlier about reason

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for termination. Uh I would affirm what I said then and what I think was her basic question and that was is it necessary that you find fault in order to terminate and the answer is no. uh if if

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there's a loss of confidence by the city manager and I will tell you that when we finished with our meeting uh and anyone that was there would have to agree including Chief Razer I asked if it was possible if they were to not go and not

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take any action at that point and take a cooling off period if they thought they could resolve u their differences that city manager felt like he could any conversation was going to restore his confidence in the chief and uh I can't

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see visual now but the city manager said that he felt like the trust was broken that it couldn't be regained. Is that correct m Mr. Martin? >> Yes sir. That's correct. So, I mean, at that point, I was saying,

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okay, if if it was unintentional, if the if the the email he sent was not intentionally misleading or wasn't intended to be interpreted the way it was, and I, as I've already said, I interpreted the same way there did there being a lifethreatening event where two

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kids' lives were at stake and we didn't respond, requiring someone from 30 minutes away to respond, that email in itself in my opinion was very damning from the city's perspective. Should there had been two kids around CR on that and uh and people started trying to

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find fault. Uh the email from the chief saying he couldn't respond because he didn't have equipment was very damning in of itself. But I question whether or not it's possible that any kind of

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misunderstanding uh and could be clear eliminated by some conversation or whatever and we got past that date and uh and the city manager said that his trust was broken and and I assumed there

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was more in in that statement than just the most recent event, [gasps] but I don't know that for a And um so at that point I said okay I mean that's that's where we are. So from my perspective sometimes you reach a point where where

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you've got a superior and a subordinate and it they just aren't going to be able to work together. You got to make a choice. But I would rather the choice not be made based upon a finding of uh intentional wrongdoing. Uh I don't I

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mean I would just rather it not be based on a finding of intentional wrongdoing. Um but rather on a uh finding that the obvious relationship between the city manager and the chief is such so [clears throat] it's not reasonable to

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believe that they're going to have a good working relationship, an acceptable working relationship. And we're talking about a department that is a life safety department. So that's what I'm hearing. Obviously I'm just one. You are all free

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to draw your own conclusion, but that's what I'm hearing. >> So basically based on irreconcilable differences, you just don't feel that they would be able to reconcile based on the conversation you had. Is that correct? >> Well, that's what I heard. But if you heard something differently, it really

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isn't [clears throat] it really isn't me to make a decision. >> No, I know. I know. I just want to, you know, >> that's what I heard at that meeting. And I'm not hearing anything different today unless I miss something and you know somebody has a spin gut. But what I'm hearing is now if anything it seems like

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the situation is being exacerbated because you know of accusations that are being made by the chief and denials by city manager. So, I mean, realistically, do you think these folks can go back together and work in

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a communive and cooperative relationship as chief and city manager? Maybe they can. Maybe that's maybe y'all, you know, maybe your take on it. Your your take on it should be what's real, not mine. But, uh, >> I appreciate that. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Yes, Commissioner D.

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I would like to offer a motion. That's time for that. Okay. Um, [clears throat] mayor. So, um, regretfully, I would like to move that we accept, um, Chief Razer's recogn res letter of resignation,

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um, with recognizing, um, his contributions to the department and leadership and bringing it up to a level as indicated by our city manager. but that we are accepting this resignation

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because of clear um irreconcilable working relationship. I'm sorry. Am I saying the wrong thing? >> No. So, are you accepting his resignation or the city manager's recommendation? Okay. >> I'm accepting his

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>> resignation that he has offered and the reason for doing so is the lack of a good working relationship. um between the city manager and the fire chief and um differing philosophies that

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they apparently have. >> Okay. >> So, we have a proper motion and a second. Um do we have any further discussion? Discussion. >> Yeah. My my discussion is this was brought to us [clears throat]

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by the Sorry about that. >> This was brought to us by the manager. >> Yeah. Yeah, we think that the motion would be um that we actually uh I guess accept it if you want to accept the resignation, but it's really

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because of the manager brought the brought this motion to us. Two things. >> Um and I'm just saying why I made the motion, why I made it. Um number one, um the [clears throat]

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city attorney certainly recommended that we um not specify any specific problems and there he noted himself that there seemed to be just an irreconciliable

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relationship between the two. And um as well out of respect to Chief Razer um he has offered his letter of resignation. The city manager told us that he would accept that letter of resignation. Is that not correct? >> Yes, that was correct. Prior to this

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prior to this meeting, he was given that opportunity >> and Okay. And the city manager has said that the fire chief has done very positive things for the department. So, um, I think out of courtesy to Chief

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Razer, um, I think that out of courtesy to Chief Razer and recognizing his positive contributions, um, we should accept his letter of resignation. I know if it was me or any other employee, I would like to extend

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them um, that courtesy. And does the city manager have any objection? I have a comment I can reconcile with anybody. Up to this point, he's been given the information and the time. I have received no phone

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call apologizing for the misrepresentation in the email. A person in your position should have reached out to someone in my position and said, "I messed up." And we wouldn't even be here today. That is why we're here. and it has to do with trust not

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being reconciled. This is a loss of trust and confidence in the position. >> Okay. We have a motion. We have we currently have a motion on the table to accept the resignation. My my concern Yes, please do because I have some concerns about the way the motion was

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stated. Yes, sir. >> So, maybe I didn't understand it, but I heard the motion being to accept his resignation. Should he now tender it? >> Yes. without a specific finding of of a fault, so to speak, on his part, but

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with a recognition that uh because of the conversations, the evidence has been presented, it's pretty apparent that it' be very difficult for the chief and the city manager to to reconcile their differences and work together cooperatively for the benefit of the

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town and its citizens. And I'm paraphring a bunch, but is my understanding correct? >> Yes. Yes. Yes, that's fine. I certainly would have no objection to that to that motion being passed now. Should she decide resignation then that is in order

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for a different motion. >> Okay. My only question is with this motion is you stated earlier that um if he's giving a volunteer if he's given a voluntary resignation versus a um

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>> a forced resignation. And so that was my that's my concern. That's my concern with the motion as it's currently stated, Don, because you specifically >> I don't think you can use me to cure that. In other words, if he's going to

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tender resignation, then he can argue later on that it was forced if he wants to, but he's got he has the option of not tendering. Okay, >> right now that and there's nothing you can do that would keep him from being able to say later on that it was a forced resignation, but at least

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[laughter] you're giving the opportunity without a finding a fault uh for him to resign just based upon as y'all put it sort of paraphrase all the differences. I have no objection to the motion. >> Okay. Thank you. I wanted clarification. Thank you.

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Okay. Any more discussion? We currently have a proper motion and a second to accept Chief Razer's um resignation. Would you do a roll call for us, please? >> Commissioner Burton,

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>> I. >> Commissioner Moore, >> I. >> Commissioner Dei, >> Vice Mayor Lori, >> I. >> Mayor Myers, >> I approve. Thank you. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Thank you guys for your time. I

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appreciate it. Um, one question. Um, my my personal equipment is at the fire station. Am I allowed? >> Thank you. >> Um, and before we move on to the next order of business, could I just make one

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follow up to Yes. what we we've heard a lot of information today. Um it is apparent to me that um our residing chief and the city manager have a different philosophy about how we

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provide equipment for the department. And um I've heard that difference ever since we discussed um the talk about getting a new firetruck and the need for the firetruck. And again, um, I heard the city manager say very

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clearly his philosophy about you do the best you can with what you have. And then the chief's philosophy was you have to be very specific and meeting codes. >> My feeling is that um, and then Don um, our city attorney mentioned the issue of

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liability and using judgment. Um, to me, I think that it's important for us as a commission to, especially as we're doing the budget and making the long-term capital improvement plan, to really have a good talk with

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the city manager about where we are in the equipment for the agency simply to make sure I mean, obviously, we don't want to spend money that we don't have to, but to make sure that our employees and volunteers are using the right

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equipment that we're not that we're doing the best response we can and that we're not creating any liability. Um I just think when we take up the budget, we really need to look at maybe even impartially get another opinion what are

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our needs for this fire department? Um because we we had some breakdown issues and I'm not suggesting we go into them today. I'm suggesting that that's something we take into consideration when we set the budget and just talk about funding agenda. >> And that's a that's a conversation we'd

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have to bring in also the county because the county provides a lot of our equipment. Correct. So and especially with where we're going, not knowing where we're going to be going in the future. I said that is that is >> that's absolutely

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>> If it's okay, I'm going to go ahead and leave now. >> Okay. We appreciate you. Thank you very much. You have a good Friday. Thank you. >> Okay. So, I believe, let me make sure um it appears that if I haven't gotten a

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text or any of you haven't gotten a text. >> Oh, >> yeah. Time passed. >> Congratulations. But we've been reelected. >> That's only the quarter of one. How do we know who's got what? >> Charles would have Charles Charles would

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have he would have contacted contacted us. I'm sure contacted somebody. He was yesterday making sure that nobody had had reached out >> and so Oh, you mean come to ask about qualifying at city hall? Yes. Yeah.

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That's quite a question as well. We'll So that's how congratulations. Well, if no one files, congratulations to you. [clears throat] I hit my first >> [snorts] >> um >> um I spoke to I and I just

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>> Okay. So, where did Derek go? >> He went outside. >> Went outside. I'm going to take like a five minute recross [clears throat] >> to defrost. I know I'm shaking

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Are we good? Do I need to do anything? >> Huh? >> You can teach me how to click it. [laughter] [clears throat] >> Okay. This meeting is back in session, a

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special meeting, and I think Go ahead. >> Yes. I I just want to tell the commission, thank you again for being here today, and I'm I'm very sorry that I had to bring this to you all. It's the last thing I wanted to do. I went to extend my hand to Chief Razer while the officer was outside. He just apologized that this was not personal and um and

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that uh you know, I wish him well. And his exact comments to me was that >> I burned a bridge and I'm going to regret it. So, >> but I just want to put this out there state. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> Did you burn the bridge?

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>> Did I burn the bridge? I see. Oh, okay. >> I just want to Yeah. That's what he told me. >> Okay. So, second part of our meeting today, we're here to discuss the budget. We have some workshops coming up. Um, I

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believe some conferences and believe Vice Mayor Lori has want to say a support visit currently $1,400, sir. Well, 170 because I have $400 in my budget. >> Okay. >> How much does he have in his bud? You have it, Steve?

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>> Currently, right now, we see $27.52 in the budget. >> But there was that that $200 that was not supposed to be that was in that before. And then the $29 was registration for Palms. So that should go to the CRA. Okay. So then

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>> I'm sorry 209 should go to the CRA. >> Yeah. Problems. It was like registration fee. >> And you said it's,7 >> 1470 >> 147. So,770 >> for what now? What are we doing here? >> So what we're looking at is our budget

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make a decision today on how we can fund travel for the Florida cities. Correct. down south. >> U so going over our numbers preliminary look at just the commission

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line items. We don't have it in there. It's not in there. However, plan B. >> When you say it's not in there, are you saying that the money is already spent to this year? >> Well, I'm saying there's some money left, but not enough to cover. >> Not a commissioner lawyer line item.

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>> Okay. So, how much money is left? Well, we had calculated 2007, but Commissioner Lori just informed us that we have to we have to move some [cough and clears throat] out of out of his commission line into the CRA. So, he'll have what? He'll have an additional $200, I believe. >> Right.

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>> So, so what what's the what's he got left? >> I've got your phone. You want your phone? >> I've done all kinds. >> Thanks. I don't know how you keep up

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straight. >> While he's doing that, while he's calculating that, I do want to um congratulate both. [clears throat] You are um unopposed and so you have been reelected. >> Yeah. >> 209. And how much was that? 209

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that was supposed to be going to CR 209 flat or was there >> change? 209. >> Okay. So there's 400 currently right now there' be $416.52 in Commissioner Vice Mayor Lor's um group two right

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>> budget 4 $416.52. >> Okay. >> And how much does he need? >> 1470 is the >> 1470 for just for this particular thing. Yes. >> Wait the Okay. the the total balance

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needed that you're short >> is 1,00 it's $1,5348. >> Okay. So, he just takes it out of his budget for next year, >> pays for it. >> I'm serious.

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>> Okay. Um, so my question is, um, or as far as I know, I am planning to use all of my training money because I will going to the conference in >> How to Dale the League of Cities annual

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conference and I'm pretty sure that [clears throat] there's a conference fee that I have not asked for reimbursement for. If I had anything left, I would ask that that be spent on Commissioner War's fund. >> Um,

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>> which is a lot of money right here. >> Let me finish. Let's finish. My question is, is there any other commissioner training line where that commissioner knows for sure that they would not be using all of their training money or is

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everyone um [clears throat] planning to use their max money? Well, you of course know that I haven't used any of mine. Okay, so I've got that, but I do not not use mine so that others can use it. Um I I incur a lot of those

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costs on my on my own. Um and that typically goes back to the city. Um I did talk to them earlier about hopefully putting that over into the um insurance portion as you noticed where they're trying to separate it out when they do

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the balance adjustment. Right. >> So um >> where's Commissioner Devito's um what's her balance? What's her current balance? current balance is 11 1175 unexpended

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>> 11 >> 1,175 >> she has available >> that she has available currently to date [clears throat] >> and I just did some math we we have in the budget right now um money left over after the 500 you all just released

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under 18 private organization we have $300 left in that line item we also have an additional $359.3 34 cents under other charges that we could use for a total of 65934 in the actual commissioner's fund.

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>> But we haven't contributed to the library. >> We haven't contributed to the library. >> And historically, we have contributed to the library. >> And you did 300, correct? >> Yes. >> And we Yeah. Well, we've done 500 in the past. Last year, we did 300. Um, >> zero,

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>> right? We only need 300. So how I'm sorry I plan to attend the email the second part of that >> currently right now commissioner board has $958.13 left in your budget for

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>> for I [clears throat] have none >> Burton you have $60 you have $60 and if any you were going to go to the um League of Cities, North Northeast Florida League of Cities meeting in Palaca. Make sure I don't know how you

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do that. If you fund it out of that, that's $35. >> Is that in October? >> That'll be in September. >> September. Yeah. >> So, that will be that will be in September. So, >> I'm just making sure that you're aware of that. I don't know how you how you

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>> Mr. Moore, I paid for your meeting. I I what I think bothers me here and I'm sorry I'm just going to say it. >> You know BJ had $1,500. Now you're going to give him another,53. So are [clears throat] you going to uh

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make his budget next year $2,17 so he can go to everything he wants next year? Is that what's going to happen here? I mean, because this is this is something I mean, it takes you got to fit what you want in $1,500,

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I guess, is what I want to say. So, I'm not sure what he spent his money on. And I I really it's his deal. Okay. But you get $1,500 and anything past $1,500, you shouldn't be using everybody else's money.

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>> Okay. I could I because that's I mean that's a policy opinion. I have another I have another policy view to share. So I think um in 2018 when I came on to the

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commission I think it was $1,200 that was given and um the late Commissioner Hardy um talked about because he was a young man with a [clears throat] family and he

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talked about how it was very difficult to go even to the annual conference from for League of Cities um which when the years when they hold it down full water he said you know if you really do what you do as an employee and claim not just

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conference fee but the hotel the gas and meals it adds up quite a bit >> it's it's always um it's always taken some personal money I use all my conference training money um

359
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but and rarely have I ever claimed gas or meals, right? So, but finish what I want to say is um so we raised it to 1500 to um because the conference fees have gone up

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every year. So, I would just um I would just like to share that I don't think there's too much more important than having commissioners be trained and understand

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um the workings of what goes on in the city and how to use um do things the right way. I know just came out um from League of Cities this year that Commissioner Moore earned her bronze certificate, right? Because you went to EMO one,

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>> right? She went to that. Commissioner Lori, I think has earned his gold certificate for the third year in a row, >> right? And um I Right. And I earned my gold certificate for two years in a row. Before that, I got silver. Um, but all

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of this this stuff is not uh fun and games. It's not a junket. It's it's very nuts and bolts um educational and I just think that it's a really valuable investment for the city. I don't know

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what other cities spend. Um but I I think it's valuable. And the way you get the gold and silver and bronze certificates is you have to go to more than one training. Um, and you can do some online, but I just I think Crescent

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City is better off and I think it's important to go to the regional meetings as well because I know when I go um I learn things there also. But I think training is important and I don't fault anyone who needs more training money and

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Commissioner Lur goes way beyond where he needs to go. Um particularly has made himself an expert in cyber security. I think he was the only one of us to get your certification. Is that right? So, um, you know, there's

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I don't think it's a mistake for us to spend a little more >> and here's my letter and >> he let him let him and then you then you finish up Commissioner Burton. Yes, Commissioner.

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>> We had this discussion last year and one of the things is I have to usually go down the day early because I can't just drive down for an 8:00 meeting somewhere. It's too hard for on me and and Rachel. And one of the reasons, you know, this is expensive is because I'm

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staying Saturday night because it's just too hard to turn around Saturday after we have a meeting and there's another event and then go home from Hollywood because that's just too long of a drive. Um, I would come back early if I could, but it's just it's not physically

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possible for me. Um, you know, we talked about that last year. I I went to Tallahassee twice this year. That's one of the reasons I had more expenses. Once was for the Putin County days that did [clears throat] I represented Crescent City and noticed that we were there. Um

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and I did a good job representing the city and talked to a lot of people there. Um so I don't know. I I feel really kind of [clears throat] discriminated against in a way. I know. I understand that. You know, it's

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expensive for me. You know, >> I last year you guys had no problem with this. We just moved the money and you said, "Okay, PJ's special." This year it seems to be a problem. I don't understand. >> We may have money, but here's my suggestion

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is just we need raise it to 2,200 bucks for each of us to be trained. >> Yeah. >> So, just raise it. >> Yes. >> If I can, mayor. Thank you. Um this year we originally had in our um budget that we're working under you all the the same

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1500 we carried. We were going back and looking at 2024 we had an average we had $2,100 for one $2,700 for another $1,600 for one and 74. And I'm not sure why that's sold over another. Next year we

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had 1487 1824 1800 and400. I'm proposing in the budget to go to $2,000. If we maintain the level where we're at right now and somebody, one or two of you all decide there's something else that comes up, we can have this

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other meeting to kind of shift things within the commissioner's, you know, general profile here, uh, under the general budget. So, that is what we're proposing. We're going to bring back to you all. Um, I do know and I believe and correct me if I'm wrong. Um, Vice Mayor Lori, there's been times too where the

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accommodations could be at one hotel and you had to go to another. It was further away. You had to go earlier just like you had said, Stephen, I was talking about that. It's happened twice. Um, so I I was going to propose a conversation should be had to probably put maybe a little bit more in that coffer for next

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year just to cover those costs, but I am proposing to increase everybody's so we can cover it all for everybody. That's very important. I um Commissioner Lori, I I will say this. Um I I with your last comment and of course nothing personal,

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but I do take offense to that because I don't feel in any way that we have been discriminatory about your your travel budget. And we have um had this conversation, not with you, but with all the commissioners. Every year you're

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given a budget. Watch your budget just like you have to watch your house budget. Watch your budget. make sure that you're spending your dollars um within your budget. Last year we raised it for this very reason because we didn't feel like it was enough. So if

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it's not enough and here we are at the end of the year again and it's not enough. But in no way is anybody I mean I believe everybody with the knowledge we bring back we're appreciative. We're a small community um and and

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budget is limited and we have probably in more so than other communities um not provided the dollars for people to do and attend everything that they would like to attend. There's a lot of

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things that I would like to attend. I feel like many of those are um overpriced for what you get and and that's my that's my probably my biggest concern is are we getting the biggest bang for our buck for the amount of dollars that we're putting out there and

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that's something that I think we all need to look at. But as far as being discriminatory, in no way I believe we're being discriminatory, this is a budget issue. And so, um, so what have you come up with, Mr. Martin?

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>> What I come up with is right now there's a shortfall of $694.14. That's what we need to be able to push over. We have it. we have $35,9.34 under other charges left over and we

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have the uh $400 in his current account. So, taking that into consideration, you you would need to move $694.14 currently out of everybody you may or >> what happened to the thousand? What happened to the thousand?

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>> It's a,53. Did I do that correctly? >> What happened? >> Oh, yeah. 53 minus the 359 would come up to the 694 and that,53 encompasses his current 359 coming from >> that would be coming from other or other

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charges. >> So removing So you're as we vers a motion that's what we're going to have to do is we're going to have to do that first. Yes, ma'am. >> Is make sure that we've got these accurate and where we're moving them from if the commission so pleases to do a a motion for that.

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>> Yes, ma'am. So currently it is other charges account 5113491 under other charges is a current amount of $359.34. >> Okay. >> And so that leaves a deficit of a need

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would be at 69414. Yeah, you can um take the money. What is it that >> right now? You have $958.13. Commissioner Denito has $1175 and the mayor has 1,500.

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>> But Commissioner Dita is spoken for because she's going. >> Okay. So you would take that 694 from is what you're proposing that Commissioner Mour has forfeited hers. >> Okay. So we could definitely do it out

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of that. >> Okay. >> But I have a question for Commissioner Moore. >> Yes. >> Did have you submitted everything from when you went to EA? >> Okay. And that would Okay. So she has 900 and something left and he needs 694.

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So that would leave Commissioner Ward enough to go to the Northeast Florida meeting. >> Yeah, hope so. >> I just want to make sure. >> Yeah, we don't want you to give away your dinner before you had a chance.

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>> Do you have you have nothing else for this next before October 1st that you plan on attending? >> No. >> Okay. Mayor, >> that would leave $263.99 in Commissioner Moore's account. >> Okay. Okay.

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>> Okay. >> Yes, Commissioner. >> I agree. There are lots of things that I think we all would love to go to. Um, frequently we don't have the time from our individual lives or from our city

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meetings. Um, there's so many things out there. There's regional meetings, state meetings, National League of Cities meetings. Um, and I I hope one day Crescent City gets to the point where we all have enough time to go and then even figure out how much it would cost. But

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we are small. That is true. And just right now, unless we fund it personally, I think there's a lot that is just [clears throat] completely out of reach. I agree with that. >> And fortunately, through the internet, I mean, they're providing more and more online training so that we can do it

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inhouse in the comfort of our own homes. >> Yes. and be able to do it and then be able to do it that way. Um there's not the networking. I understand you're not networking. You're not meeting those people um face to face. And that is a very valuable very valuable component of

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attending these to be able to meet people face to face just like I've charged both of you with getting somebody here. So >> um with that, so I'll entertain Yes. >> Sorry. The motion.

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>> Okay. I'll entertain a motion. So, I would move that we authorize the city manager um to move sufficient funds uh [clears throat] from other accounts specifically

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um the 5113491. Okay. of $359 and also um funds from Commissioner Moore's unused training uh to fund Commissioner Lor's training for the

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Florida League of Cities annual conference in Orlando. No, >> no, I'm sorry. In Hollywood, right? And that for it's a total of 15348 that's needed. Is that correct? Okay.

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>> [clears throat] >> Okay, done. Second. >> You're seconding it. >> Do you not want me to? >> You can second at all time. Okay, >> that's fine. >> Commissioner Moore seconded it. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we have a current motion on

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the table um and a second. And so, um we have any further discussion? No further discussion. Madam clerk, if you do a roll call for us, please. >> Yes, ma'am. Um, Commissioner Burton, >> I. Commissioner Moore, >> I. >> Commissioner Devito,

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>> I. >> Vice Mayor Lori, >> I'm staying. >> Mayor Myers, >> I don't know. You can make I can make this. >> Well, I just don't know that you should have. I I just I didn't say you couldn't make it. I just said, "Are you sure you want to?"

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>> And I He can He can recute. He can. >> No, why not? >> Well, because we're moving money around. I know, but we're moving money around for his benefit. So, >> so you know where it's going.

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>> I know, but wait a second. But you cannot abstain if it's not >> This is not for private gain. This is for his Yes. >> Well, no, actually technically my understanding is we are never allowed to abstain. The only thing we can do

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>> is to um what is the name of the formative >> right? We can say that we cannot vote because it would endure to our private gain. The issue is um we don't know legally whether this fits that

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definition. So I mean I [clears throat] don't think his vote is going to make any difference. I don't know what the answer is. >> I don't know. I would air on the side of caution. We're not supposed to abstain, >> right? We can't we can't abstain. >> In some ways it does, >> you [clears throat] know, if we if we

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decided we didn't want to do this pay for it. >> Exactly. >> So it does it does actually give him money for, you know, personal gain. >> That's what [clears throat] I'm saying. The choice would be to I'm sorry. The choice would be to file the form to say

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it endures to his private benefit. >> Okay. Okay. So he'll do that. So he is going to stayain and >> and I vote in um in affirmative. >> Okay. Vote approved.

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>> I I just have one question to ask you about the conference. >> Yes. Okay. So, we are trying to have [clears throat] um a town hall meeting in Crescent City and potentially did we say inviting other South folks. Do you

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have any idea? Is anyone in the county planning to have a town hall? >> Um, not that I not that I've been made aware of, but I will tell you this. I spoke to the mayor of Orange Park last

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this morning um and um she had um said that they met actually with their property appraiser >> that their property appraiser was holding something. said, "We might reach out to Malay um and see what he can do."

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Um she said, "And their legislator, so that was an option, too." Came in and spoke to them. Um >> not as a town hall. >> No, not not as a town hall, but did come in. Oh, yeah. For the public. For the

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general for the general public. Yes, they could. >> For the general public. She also said something that I thought was very interesting that it was brought up in that meeting. Um, and this is something that we should, you know, they're working on the language. They have 10 days for language.

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>> Uh, there's question out there. Will they get it? Will they not get it? I'm sure. And from what I've been told, they've been working on it and there's backup language ready to go. We don't know that, but we'll see what happens and if the judge accepts it. but that another community um that they put signs

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up in their park and said that this park is funded through adalorum dollars. >> I always be careful. >> I know about that. >> But I thought that was very interesting that they had to bring to people's

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attention as to that's not going back and forth. that's factual and they said we could share facts, but we would have to have that checked out and make sure from a legal standpoint. Um, if that if that was if that would even be acceptable. But I thought that was very

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um >> that was a a a neat way of doing that. I mean, maybe we would need to put signs on more than just one thing and more. >> Oh, absolutely. Um but yes, if if you can do it in a way it's to make it

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purely informational >> and that's it. It was she said it was purely informational and I thought that was very um innovative that they kind of went around that said. Yeah, you're right. Um and she said it's educational. A lot of people don't know how those parts, you know, that they just magically appear. They're magically

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taken care of and who pays for it. Um and I think that's what a lot of this comes down to. So yes, so if you talk to them, please if there's anything um I haven't checked my emails today, but if there's anything that um they're able to

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provide or if nothing else, we can do it ourselves and provide the the slides. >> It has a slide deck. >> They have they have that slide deck that they've provided um that we can we could do that we could do that ourselves. then

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we're looking at September 1st or if there's a date that would better fit them. It's just nice to have somebody in person so there could be a question and answer in case the general public had question and answers. Um and I know individually if we wanted to

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individually um also be able to we just have to be very very careful in in how we present >> and they would know how to do that >> and they would know how to do that and that would be my concern across the board is making sure [cough and clears throat] and I do want

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to share that um I just recently was appointed to the Northeast Florida Regional Council. So >> thank you. So I didn't know. So when you're talking about time >> Yes. >> Yes. Every Thursday, but the last

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Thursday. So do not schedule anything on the last Thursday of any month [laughter] >> because that's I said every Thursday now. Um but yes that was and that I had my first meeting and I had kind of my

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overview my um orientation I guess >> and very enlightening very enlightening and it's a lot and I had no idea the resources that that they can offer and

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and Beth has >> palms was the EDDD from was it central south central Florida the five counties and they talked about all the stuff that they do was I knew about some of it but there was a lot more >> and that was through um the one that I

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encouraged and they went to um I believe Derek Bonnie and two of our planning and zoning >> went to Keystone Heights for that >> yeah they went to Keystone for a a a planning training that they had the standalone planning training

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So they um but I just a lot of the things that they're involved in that they can help us with >> um was very was so hopefully I can bring some things back from that. Um so mayor speaking of planning I noticed that

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Scott King was here for part of the meeting. I wasn't sure why he was here. Um I um some of us were at the most recent public information meeting on the

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central business district. There were a lot of questions and um the Zeb Cohen firm did a slideshow presentation that was was the first time I had ever seen

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it presented that way. Um, I really and I really think well I I am losing confidence in Zeb Cohen's ability to

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guide a small town through the nuances of planning that we need. Um there were a lot of people that did not feel according to what they said to me to be well treated. And I know um Scott King

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has sent us quite a few emails. >> When you say a lot of people, how many people are you talking about, do you think? >> Oh, I would say almost everyone who spoke to me who was there probably seven or eight. That was And I didn't ask them. people would button hole me, you

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know, grab my elbow around town or whatever and say I was at the meeting and I didn't feel respected. I didn't understand. Um, if you read Scott King's emails or you heard his comments at the

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meeting um I think he's fairly representative of at least some of the people who were there. I can't say all, but there are a lot of concerns and I'm concerned about their

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ability to really adequately explain things as as opposed to convince people. There was a difference and y'all may feel differently, but um I just I sat there and I listened and I watched and

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um some people I have not asked them how they felt about it. they have come forward to tell me okay >> that they they did not feel happy or secure or they did not come out of that meeting with a positive feeling and that's not a good thing if I mean that

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>> did they opt out did those people opt out do you know >> um some of them were agonizing over whether to opt out but my main point is that you know Zevcon firm is our substitute for full-time planner they represent the city and I think it's

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important that when people deal with a department of the city or a contracted department of the city, they feel confident and they come away with a good feeling about it. Um I I think Zeb Cohen is competent. I I am very sure that when

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we have resonings and like the one we had on the agenda the other night that it's always going to be technically correct that we are not going to get sued because we didn't do um a reasonzoning or future land use amendment the correct way. My concern

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more is do people feel that they are being well served by our contracted planning department? Um, and I haven't had a chance to read um, Scott King's very last email with some specific request, but anyway,

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>> I haven't heard that. I mean, nobody's really come to me. I know sometimes that there's no that Mark is no fluff. >> He he definitely has he's >> got a poor bedside manner, I guess. >> Yes, as a doctor. But even as a you know, if you go into a surgeon, I'd much

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rather him be a good surgeon than >> Well, than be nice to me. But um and that's interesting because I talked to the Pearson mayor the other day >> and he also serves them, >> right? >> And um so I did I just haven't heard I

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haven't heard that from the general population. Um >> when I'm when I'm out and about. So I did and I have to say um I have felt many times that his explanations aren't always clear and they're not always the

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same. I mean, part of it is well, I I agree [clears throat] with Commissioner Burton. Um, his his bedside manner, or rather his public forward facing manner, is it's just you have to be clear. If

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you're not clear, um, then it, you know, people get suspicious, they're confused, they feel like they've wasted their time. I mean, there could be a number of bad results. >> Well, unfortunately, I could not be at [clears throat] the meeting. I I did want to be but we had already planned something when they scheduled the

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meeting with our attend. >> So I was at the first one. >> Commissioner. >> No, I just I just wanted to say, you know, I I don't go to very many planning meetings. Um, but I will say this, you know, I hear

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enough from people that people, you know, I forget when we did our last vision for city. How long ago was that? >> Two years ago. >> Yeah, about two years ago. >> About two years ago. I really think that we need to to revisit that a little bit

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because there are a lot of people that they don't really know where it's going anymore. I think um with this opting out and opting in and all the stuff that we're trying to do here on Central Avenue is nothing because we really don't have anything there. Um it it is

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confusing to people and I think most people would like to see plan basically I just a basic plan on how we're going to grow that city, how we're going to how how we can visualize our city in the future. Okay. And it's

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not with just the three buildings that are there, you know, the three brick buildings that are there and the wood buildings that are falling apart there. It's we have to start to build a city, you know, or or a central avenue. And so I I think we need to really look at how

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we can do that >> and start making plans for something like that other than just kind of in your mind trying to figure out and save what we have which isn't really working all that well. We should be every at

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least every year if not twice a year and and that's on us that we are not demanding that and we're not taking the time for that but we should be looking at that. Any of your goals should be revisited on a regular basis and should be upfront and in front of us at all

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times so we know what we're working towards. >> Um I've lost it. I've lost where we're kind of going. >> And someone said to me the other day and and it really it really bo just really bothered me. Messed with my entire day

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honestly because >> we we've worked so hard. I feel like we've all worked so hard over the last I know I have since I've been here. And someone said to me the other day that they just felt kind of like things were going backwards a little bit. And I'm

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like, well, I've always said, you know, we take two steps forward and one step back, but we're always still one step ahead. And as long as we can continue to do that, but that's not how they're seeing it. And I think a lot of it um a lot of it has to do with

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>> a lot of it has to do with code enforcement. A lot of it has to do with what's going on on central. And I think we as a commission um in going back to Mark should really be I mean we're the

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ones that make that final decision, >> right? >> We're the ones that make that final decision. So Mark should be the facilitator between the community and us and the educator as well as to the benefits or or pros and cons. But we've

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got to look at how many people are opting out of this. And if we've got a hodgepodge >> of zoning going on, that's not what that was never the intention. And that's something that we're going to have to, I think, really look at very carefully and make sure that we don't have a

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hodgepodge of zoning in this area that we want developed. >> Because in other words, if you had a plan, but too many people don't want to be in that plan, then you basically have to cheese. >> Yes. Exactly. Yes. So, we do have to

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start looking. We've got to start looking at that again. And we have to start picturing where we want, like I say, where we want to be. And part of that, too, you know, she brought up code enforcement. Part of that is we really need to have some minimum maintenance out there, you know, because everywhere

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we look on our streets and roads and everywhere else, everybody's doing their own thing. But, but most generally, there's I'm just going to say there's just too much garbage on everybody's lawn. there's trucks and cars and you know there's old couches and you know

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you name it it's out there. So we really need to to try and bring in some uh minimum maintenance standards and that does not mean that we go into people's homes. >> No we've taken that out of there and and I've already asked Mr. Martin and he

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assured me he's bringing it he's he's bringing in September I believe. >> Yes. All all of the notes that we made in our workshop went through and have been completed. Everything's redlinined for your for your all's review when we get there to make a final decision. Nothing has to do with interior. That

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has all been taken out. So, it all has to do with exterior and yards. >> That's a first step. It's a first step to to the city looking nice. >> Yes. >> But, mayor, could I circle back to the Zeb Coen and the

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>> Yeah. What is your So I have one request and that is is that um the commission get a good summary of the comments that were made. I mean I guess was it on YouTube? >> Was it on YouTube? >> We we did run >> they and they and they have recorded it

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and I made sure because I wanted to be able to watch it after the fact because I couldn't watch it from where it was. >> I think it's important to watch it but I also think it would be helpful. Um Mr. King sent in a summary, but I think uh it would be helpful if the planner would

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do a summary and circulate that to the commission of their I mean official summary. >> Yes. Of what the concerns were or how it went. >> Yes. And if I can um so we received the information and recommendations from Mr.

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King that's been forwarded of course over to Mark Caret. They are looking at um of course modifications to address some of those issues that were brought up by the public. That's exactly why we had that meeting. >> Okay.

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What I'm saying is my request is for Seth Cohen just to give an account, a clear account of a summary of the concerns of the public and send that to the commission so we can understand

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first of all how what was brought up by the public. I don't know I haven't looked at Mr. King's recommendations. I don't know if he can really speak for everyone. his his are not necessarily the same as what um a summary of the whole meeting would say.

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>> So yeah. So if you could just ask in in a nutshell in a nutshell, would you please ask Mr. Cohen if he could um provide comments or concerns? Yes. >> Um kind of >> I will >> bullets on concerns that the public has and if he's got that also ask him if he

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can respond to those as well in those with those comments. [clears throat] And I will say just for the I know not everybody was there um and and couldn't make it. We did record it. Um there were and Sh's going to look how many people we had a signup sheet. So I'll I'll of

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course include that information. How many people were in the meeting? We had three individuals come up and talk. Two were not in favor of moving forward as it stood. One had some recommendations and some changes but wasn't against or for it. The rest of the public that we had here, most of the people that were

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here were already opted out. They just wanted to get more information. And we also have received a lot of requests to get this moving from the people who have not >> who will. So, I just want to put that out there as well. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And we have anything else um as far as

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when's our next so everybody has it on their calendar when we're all meeting the next time. >> I have August 25th. August 25th is when >> August 25th at 11:00. >> Is that a special meeting or is that a

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workshop? >> That is a workshop. >> Okay. I I just put it in just in case. >> Current I would like to add to that CRA and general budget that you also include the enterprise funds. Madam Cler, we'll get

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that revised and sent out as a revised agenda, amended the agenda. >> Okay, >> thank you. We'll be ready with all of it. >> Okay. And I hate to be keep asking this question, but are are we going to have um the information on our prior year

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close out by August 25th? >> The prior year close out, we have to finish the audit first and we're very close on that. So, as soon as we get our closed, we will have information on the prior year close out. >> Okay. Because do before the prior year close out,

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don't we have in-house in your latest in-house information on what you believe it to be before the auditor speaks? We can do some preliminary um figures, but I I feel comfortable because I I don't want to, you know, say something

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and then have the auditors come around and make a big adjustment behind me or something like that. You don't want the auditors to come around and and >> I think what Steve is saying is >> you're Mike is >> that I think what yeah but I think what Steve is trying to say is that we don't want to put out information that could be inaccurate that goes out to the

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public then the auditor changes due to a finding and then we have to come back and and explain that. So we want it to come in the correct time when they're complete and you all will be given that information as soon as we receive it. I just don't I I don't think that's the

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right way to do business. I think this commission needs to know where according to our staff we stand with our books. And if it's got to be marked preliminary, then it's got to be marked preliminary. But at this point, it's

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>> we can do that. We'll mark up to the rest of the commission. But I I think we're I think we should be knowing this. Are you talking about the audit or the no the end of the year close out? >> Just end of the year. Where do we think we stand? Where do we stand as of what

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the staff's best ability to tell us where we are? And I understand there may need to be adjustments. >> Um but I I think we should know. >> We'll have that to you on the 25th on our workshop. >> Okay. And what time is that workshop? >> 11:00 a.m.

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>> 11 o'clock. 11 a.m. >> Right. >> Yes, it is 11:00 a.m. >> Yeah. And that is a Tuesday, right? >> That's a Tuesday. That's a Tuesday. Okay. >> I have a question. Are we having a

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parade on um Labor Day? >> Labor Day. Are we having a parade? >> It's a dance parade. My understanding >> that's right for Labor Day >> is a private organization. >> It's the She's coming up. They're coming

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up Central Avenue. >> So, do you have a problem at 10 o'clock? >> Well, I've just had a I've had a request. >> Okay. For someone to come to a parade in Crescent City. Okay. [clears throat] >> Oh, you're not tapping into your mic. >> Yeah. You're not tapping into your mic.

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Yeah. There's one at 10 o'clock on on [clears throat] >> September 5th. on September 5th. >> Okay. Um >> it's it's the woman that came before us that has the dancers and they she can have them performing over EA line and they're marching.

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>> Well, this is a political person so I'm assuming that this is probably no vote. [clears throat] >> Oh, do they think that there is like your typical public parade? >> That's what I'm thinking. >> July 4th. >> It's public. It >> is. Yeah. But she's not inviting us to

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be in her parade. >> No, [clears throat] >> she's not. Right. It's just her parade. >> Correct. With her dancers dancing. >> So, I just want to make sure when I answer this particular person's request that that's what I tell, >> right? I don't think she's working for >> And the parade is probably it's it's

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going to be >> I don't know what >> 30 minutes. >> Yes, ma'am. It's going to be quick. >> Yeah, it should be quick. Right. >> So, I mean, do we know of any other parades around the area?

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>> Yeah, I'm not sure. >> I don't know. I think our clerk was saying it's public and that obviously it's on a public street. If you want to go watch their parade, they I guess they would appreciate it. That's why they're >> coming up Central Avenue. >> But my understanding is

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>> we're not >> she doesn't need more participants. >> Yeah, that's all I do. Unless we want to join her dance class, which I can do. >> Oh, please do. So, >> right. So, I've got >> Oh, this person is Graham.

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>> Oh, right. No, I don't think she's looking for that kind of either. So, >> yeah, >> but you know, I would love to meet William Graham. I'd like to meet >> Well, so have another have another event's [clears throat] club to host an

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event. There will be well I don't even know if the women's club will do what what they'll do this time for the mid year. >> Well, there is a gubanatorial election and if commissioner Burton has been contacted by a candidate who might want

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to come to town. >> Um that's a big deal. >> I certainly would float that to the woman's club and they could invite um now they're nonpartisan. They would invite other people >> who may or may not come. But that's that

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would be a big deal. >> I think it'd be a very big deal. >> Sure. >> Okay. Well, let's you know, >> let's talk to the performance club. >> Yeah. Um I have to just to let everyone know so that I can ask for an excused absence. The October 10th commission

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meeting. >> Never missed one, >> but um >> it's not my it's not October 10th. It's October 8th. You know what? >> But I've got wedding rehearsal that that night actually when y'all will be here. So >> I'm finally getting married. >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. [laughter] So are we still This is a special meeting. Correct. >> This is our regularly scheduled. >> We are in a special meeting. >> Yes. Okay. I would like to move >> the October meeting. >> No, no. The mayor's asked to be um

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>> excused. You're going to move meeting. >> No, no, no. [laughter] I did not ask that. I have to be excused. >> I'm responding to mayor. If mayor, could that be recognized to make a motion? >> Okay. I would like to move that we um

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grant the mayor an excused absence for [clears throat] Thursday, October 8th, um for a very important family occasion. Thank you. >> A second. >> Okay, we have a proper motion and a second. Um y'all can do a voice with

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those. All in favor, please say I. >> Nay. >> No, you I I figured you [clears throat] would. I figured you would. >> I know, but I you know that was I I feel [laughter] like since I am the chair I do need to be to get an excuse to get

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excused and I just want to make sure that everybody very important. >> Y'all want to come to Naples? >> Come down to Naples. to change the meeting. >> Yeah, I didn't ask. I did not ask. I believe I crossed my mind. I'm like,

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"No, I'm not going to push my luck." But um it's hard not to be here. But >> this is my >> This is most important. This is most important. >> Are we We're still in meeting. We have >> Yep. I'm looking for um

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>> Okay, we have a proper motion. Do I have a second to adjurnn? >> Second. Okay, we have a proper motion and a second. All in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Those nay. Okay, this meeting is adjourned at [clears throat] 144.

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>> Yesterday was wonderful. [clears throat] The rain fell.